Formation Speculation
- Thread starter sbrylski
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Google seems to think that there is a way to use iframes on bbcode, I just couldn't get it to work on this particular forum. Anyway, screenshot:
Brandt is supposed to be in goal, it somehow got dropped from the final version.
Bringing this back now that we have games on the horizon again.
Though PV's preferred formation is a 4-3-3, I still believe our personnel is best suited with four midfielders on the pitch, particularly if Poku is not in consideration for a forward role. So with our full roster available, I think we play a 4-3-1-2 with a packed, holding center midfield and Poku playing as a midfielder but leading attacks. The fullbacks provide extra width:
That said, we are likely to be missing at least one midfielder for a sizable number of games this year, due to international call-ups or injuries, plus days off for midweek games or on turf. Therefore, I think we should also have a secondary formation in our back pocket that plays more like a true 4-3-3 and is more likely to be our long term playing style under Vieira with Harrison and Shelton pushing for playing time:
I'm going to assume Vieira plays us in a 4-3-3 to start preseason and see how it looks. It will be interesting to see if he chooses to leave one of our best XI on the bench in order to play it, or flexes his tactical muscles to find a new primary formation that involves all our best starters.
Though PV's preferred formation is a 4-3-3, I still believe our personnel is best suited with four midfielders on the pitch, particularly if Poku is not in consideration for a forward role. So with our full roster available, I think we play a 4-3-1-2 with a packed, holding center midfield and Poku playing as a midfielder but leading attacks. The fullbacks provide extra width:
That said, we are likely to be missing at least one midfielder for a sizable number of games this year, due to international call-ups or injuries, plus days off for midweek games or on turf. Therefore, I think we should also have a secondary formation in our back pocket that plays more like a true 4-3-3 and is more likely to be our long term playing style under Vieira with Harrison and Shelton pushing for playing time:
I'm going to assume Vieira plays us in a 4-3-3 to start preseason and see how it looks. It will be interesting to see if he chooses to leave one of our best XI on the bench in order to play it, or flexes his tactical muscles to find a new primary formation that involves all our best starters.
I like the first formation, however I believe it lacks width in that it relies on the outside backs to get forward too much and then have to haul ass back too. We saw with Iraola that when he went forward, he never really got back quick enough and it led to a lot of breaks. Even if our defense is better, a lack of width and tiring out our own Outside backs isn't going to help much.
I came up with this:
I liked Allen in that he played defense decently well, and think he should start over Iraola.* Matarrita will also add some to the attack, but has the speed to move up and down the wings. The biggest questions I believe, with a formation like this, are:
1) Would Mix actually learn to play DM under Vieira? A lot of weight is going to be on the other middie or two who end up playing alongside Frank the Tank and Pirlo. Both great players, but aged and slow. The Lopez signing is awesome solely for the speed and ability to play defense. If Mix fails, I could see Lopez playing halfway through the season.
2) Can Villa play as an outside winger on the left hand side? I think Mullins excelled at holding the ball up as a striker and then getting into the right spot and scoring a goal. Pretty goals? Hell no. But a goal is a goal, and we had difficulty scoring those. He wasn't afraid to get dirty, as Villa was, and throw and take some elbows with the opposing team's CBs.
The problem with your formation is that it has 2.5 of our top 4 offensive players playing out of position. Pirlo has always played behind the play, regardless of this defensive capabilities. Poku could theoretically play winger, but that is definitely not his best or even second best position. And I believe some people would argue that Villa should be a striker or center forward and not a winger - I'm ok with it, but think he's better leveraged in on of the former two spots.
If we play a 4-3-3, I think there is a 90% chance Poku plays as a midfielder and Mix sits on the bench. (Which is why I don't necessarily think we'll settle into a 4-3-3 as our formation of choice, but rather a secondary formation for certain situations.)
If you build out the formation from the top of the roster down, I think you start with Villa as a forward, then Pirlo as a deep midfielder, then Lampard and Poku as the second and third midfielders. Next on my list is probably Mix, who is needed in there to provide defensive cover for an offense-first midfield. Next is Mullins, who slots in nicely next to Villa, and then Shelton and Harrison can provide off the bench. Throw in a back four with attacking-minded fullbacks for width, and that's how I arrived at my formation.
By next season, Lampard and Pirlo might be gone, and Shelton and Harrison might be in our top 6, so a 4-3-3 is a more natural option. But for now, I think the 4-3-1-2 fits best.
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I just watched the video of PV when he was a guest of The Third Rail. I found a couple of things interesting. First that he spoke with the players individually to find out what they felt went wrong last season. A few of them said they were played out of position. He said that he would rather play players in positions they are comfortable with. Secondly he was talking about Poku, and how an important player he could be for NYCFC this season. He is expecting a lot more from him and it sounded to me he wants to develop him into more of a box to box midfielder.
Although I think PV prefers 4-3-3, he said that you have to be able to adapt to different formations depending on who you are playing.
I can see him playing different formations and teams a few times, but making sure players are not playing where they can't contribute effectively to the team.
Although I think PV prefers 4-3-3, he said that you have to be able to adapt to different formations depending on who you are playing.
I can see him playing different formations and teams a few times, but making sure players are not playing where they can't contribute effectively to the team.
Gotta be a False 9 then, otherwise I don't see a 4-3-3 working. Unless you want the wingers to pinch in as forwards in a 4-3-2-1. I think that will give them more creativity with the roster. It's essentially a 4-3-3 but not as wide. Think that will work best in YS too with the small field.
So with all of these new signings I'm starting to think PV is contemplating an experimental formation. This is most likely not true but anythings possible.
Basically this is a 4-3-2-1. Saunders in goal, two CBs (maybe Brillant and Mena) Matarrita at LB and Iraola at RB.
Midfield is Pirlo as a deep lying play maker. Two CDMs there (Bravo if he is really coming and maybe Lopez) to fight for balls and protect Pirlo. This is how Juventes played Pirlo with Pogba and Marchisio doing most of the running for him.
Then you put Poku and Lampard as the link between Pirlo and the lone striker, Villa.
Now I have one unorthodox tactic that I haven't mentioned yet. Iraola likes to get forward and attack but he runs back to D like hes taking a stroll through Central Park. Matarrita also likes to get forward a bit. My thought is that maybe this formation will allow them to do it without killing out D as much because now the two CDMs (who are very young and very athletic) can run back and cover the center while the CBs can spread out to cut off the wings until Matarrita and Iraola come back and defend or the direction of play changes.
Basically the LB and RB will be focused more on attack while we also cover ourselves on the counter.
It's definitely a stretch and the chances of it happening are low but it just popped into my head when I started seeing all of the signings in these specific areas.
Love to hear how crazy this sounds so feedback is welcome lol
Basically this is a 4-3-2-1. Saunders in goal, two CBs (maybe Brillant and Mena) Matarrita at LB and Iraola at RB.
Midfield is Pirlo as a deep lying play maker. Two CDMs there (Bravo if he is really coming and maybe Lopez) to fight for balls and protect Pirlo. This is how Juventes played Pirlo with Pogba and Marchisio doing most of the running for him.
Then you put Poku and Lampard as the link between Pirlo and the lone striker, Villa.
Now I have one unorthodox tactic that I haven't mentioned yet. Iraola likes to get forward and attack but he runs back to D like hes taking a stroll through Central Park. Matarrita also likes to get forward a bit. My thought is that maybe this formation will allow them to do it without killing out D as much because now the two CDMs (who are very young and very athletic) can run back and cover the center while the CBs can spread out to cut off the wings until Matarrita and Iraola come back and defend or the direction of play changes.
Basically the LB and RB will be focused more on attack while we also cover ourselves on the counter.
It's definitely a stretch and the chances of it happening are low but it just popped into my head when I started seeing all of the signings in these specific areas.
Love to hear how crazy this sounds so feedback is welcome lol
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Its very defensive, and you are not starting Mix, and Villa will likely get killed in the first game.
Dreaming_NYC
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That would be a very interesting tactic, however I doubt that both Poku and Lampard will start the game. My guess is that you will have either Mix (as much as I dislike saying that) or our Superdraft singing Jack Harrison start up in midfield (if he recovers on time). Heck I can even see P Mullins getting some starting time early on in the season. The point is, Either Lampard will get subed out by Poku or they will have to foce puko play out of position.
It is defensive minded but for a team that was I think tied for most goals against last season we should be defensive minded. Plus it's more to allow a fluid team based on the situation.
I didn't start Mix on purpose. I personally and subjectively don't think he deserves a starting spot right now. Maybe he changed in training during the off season but his performance to price ratio was much worse than the other Mids out there.
How would Villa get killed? Not challenging you, I just don't know why. He was alone for most of last season and Lampard and Poku would be attacking mids anyway.
I hope Mix doesn't start. And Jack I think is going to be out for a while which is how they were able to get Bravo (if that is true). JAck would be on the disabled list which frees up his international spot. Once he comes back then the formation would change. But since he's young they might just sit him out for a while and give him a very few minutes to allow him to grow during training instead of throwing him into the furnace.
My best guess is that the signings don't really change the plan. Brillant and Mattarita are presumably starters and upgrades, but I don't think they change how we play.
While I'd love Lopez to have a role, feels overly optimistic to think he is a day one starter given his recent history. Who knows on Bravo, if he comes? I think we need someone committed to a DM role with Pirlo no matter who is on the roster. If he comes and is an upgrade over the ill suited candidates we have now that is great, but I think we look similarly tactically either way. Just hopefully better!
Villa was getting his ass kicked as a single striker last year. Kreis put him there alone in the game we shut down giovinco, then seemed to fall in love with that formation going forward. He's too little to get pushed around by guys like Ciman and Perquis all year.
I disagree about Mix, he was the best mid we had for most of the year, then was shunted to a winger when Pirlo and Lampard came. For the national team, he has shown he has the skills to play defensively next to pirlo as he does with Bradley, and to move forward in attack with flair and creativity. For me, he has to start in CM.
Hopefully, competent centerbacks will reduce the ridiculous breakaways we faced last year. Pirlo showed that no matter what the formation, he wants to pick up the ball from the defense and let everyone get forward while he picks out his pass. I thnk Mix suits that role perfectly
Don't forget about this thread: http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/formation-speculation.1104/page-40
I think Mix is still a likely starter, but only by a plurality rather than >50% odds. He has a lot of competition.
I also think Vieira is truly wide open on his tactics. He may prefer a 4-3-3, but our best players are midfielders, not wingers, and our best midfielders (Pirlo, Lampard, and Poku) would be laughably overrun in a 4-3-3.
It's going to be an interesting preseason.
I think Mix is still a likely starter, but only by a plurality rather than >50% odds. He has a lot of competition.
I also think Vieira is truly wide open on his tactics. He may prefer a 4-3-3, but our best players are midfielders, not wingers, and our best midfielders (Pirlo, Lampard, and Poku) would be laughably overrun in a 4-3-3.
It's going to be an interesting preseason.
True, Villa did get pushed around by the bigger CBs. I just saw him more as a target man.
I disagree about Mix but if his game improves this year then I'd be very happy since I'd rather see a high paid player do well then have to hope we cant get rid of him,
Agree about Pirlo, and he definitely needs basically a body guard and a "Pinch" defender (to steal a term from baseball since we play in Yankee Stadium lol)
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