Formation Speculation

There's just really no perfect way to get Lampard and Pirlo on the field at the same time. They play too similar of a position. Everyone wants to force Lampard into a #10 role, but that's just not his game. He's a #8 without legs. He needs a playmaker *and* strikers in front of him. Both need a defensive midfielder next to them or behind them.

Pirlo alone would be fine. Lampard alone could probably be done. Together, it's tough.

Especially when we can all see that Villa would be better with a strike partner.

I think the biggest thing this team needs is a real CDM. Someone who can make a midfield imposing all by himself.

There's no magic bullet formation that can fix us this year. So I'm going to throw out something for next year, for fun:

NYCFC-formation-tactics.png


Pirlo and Lampard don't fit into a diamond. Pirlo could go at the bottom, but Lampard doesn't fit anywhere. Pirlo also needs stud CM's covering defensively for him and contributing offensively.

So play a 4-3-3, bringing in one stud to cover our old guy's asses (I just picked an American, I'm sure there are better/other candidates). EDIT: Maybe try Facey here in a quasi-3-man backline, with John playing CB next to Mena?

Then just put three attackers above them, and let our two old guys distrbute to those three making runs. The fullbacks can also creep forward in support.

As much shit as I've given Allen, he's probably our third best fullback, so I penciled him in after Angelino returns.

Up front, Shelton is probably our best wide player and should start in this formation.

Noticeably absent is Mix and TMac. It's funny, these two are actually a great start for a diamond formation, with TMac as the #10 and Mix as a shuttler. But as stated above, that's not possible due to our DP's. Instead, they can both back up Lampard and Pirlo in the middle, or maybe try them on the wing in Shelton's spot, but neither are great out there.

I think the conclusion of this rambling post is that we are more than a year away from fixing anything. Not only that, by the time we build a team around Lampard and Pirlo, they'll be retiring, and we'll have to start over again.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Lampard will retire instead of collect his $6M from the hot tub next year:

NYCFC-formation-tactics.png


EDIT: Forgot about George John. Hopefully he comes back and wins a CB spot, with Facey/Mena competing for the other one.
 
Seven said:
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/grabavoy-emerges-leader-40339/

Not sure where exactly to put this, but I figured this was as good a place as any.

Looks like we are stuck with Ned for a while. Also, there was some talk on the boards leading up to the Quakes game about playing Villa at left wing, but looks like Kreis no longer likes that idea.
Click to expand...

One game with two goals and he's a "leader," wow. I get that he's got all those "veteran" skills that young players drive a manager crazy for not having, but the narrative is still ridiculous.

Looks like Kreis isn't eager to move off the 4-2-3-1. Hopefully he doesn't think Jacobson and Grabavoy are locked into next year's starting lineup. Still not sure why he hasn't considered Mix for Jacobson's role at all, though an upgrade like Danny Williams or Oriol Rosell would be even better.
 
MagnusPax said:
I'm glad Kries hasn't swapped Mix for AJ, different players. And AJ is a much better defender than Mix.
Click to expand...

I'd contend that Mix is pretty much better at everything than Jacobson. Both are best as 8's, but we don't really have that role in our 4-2-3-1.

It sounds crazy, but I honestly think we should explore trading Mix to another MLS team this offseason. He just doesn't have a natural role on this team, and won't for at least another two years. Obviously I'd only trade him if the return was really spectacular though.
 
How about this for Saturday night against Vancouver? We know we are getting Angelino on the left and will hopefully have A.I. on the right. That means we need better defensive cover against potential counterattacks, which are a staple of Vancouver's game.


NYCFC-formation-tactics.png
 
Last edited:
As much as I'd love to see Poku start, I think we'll definitely see Grabavoy. Kreis has way too much of a Grabahardon after last week. Knowing this I'd actually start Poku in Mix's spot, but more than likely he will come on in the 70th minute when we're already down too far to matter. I also think a key to our defensive game is going to be keeping AJ way back behind Pirlo like he was the last few games. If Iraola and 69 start then we need to chain them to the goal posts.
 
You can talk about Grabs vs Poku but the real question/danger is the defense. Can AJ and Mix adequately cover for Pirlo and back 4 in this formation.

And astro-turf.
 
MagnusPax said:
I'm glad Kries hasn't swapped Mix for AJ, different players. And AJ is a much better defender than Mix.
Click to expand...
Mix looked pretty good at CDM for NT when he subbed on. Had like half a dozen interceptions in only one half of play. I know that stats don't tell the whole picture but AJ has not put up numbers like that since Pirlo has been in the lineup.
 
That's the NT not NYCFC. Put it this way, I rather have AJ in CDM than on the wing. I'd rather have AJ and Mix out there with Pirlo than Poku and Mix. I don't believe any of the 3 (Pirlo, Mix or Poku) would play d-mid.
 
MagnusPax said:
That's the NT not NYCFC. Put it this way, I rather have AJ in CDM than on the wing. I'd rather have AJ and Mix out there with Pirlo than Poku and Mix. I don't believe any of the 3 (Pirlo, Mix or Poku) would play d-mid.
Click to expand...
Great point. I don't know who would play on the wing if Mix went back to CDM. I do agree I think Mix is a better CDM than AJ, but not sure that works in this formation.

I'm still pounding the table to revert back to a diamond with Poku as the striking partner next to Villa. With Montreal winning last night and the chance at the playoffs looking extremely dim, why not see what Poku can do up top?
 
SoupInNYC said:
Great point. I don't know who would play on the wing if Mix went back to CDM. I do agree I think Mix is a better CDM than AJ, but not sure that works in this formation.

I'm still pounding the table to revert back to a diamond with Poku as the striking partner next to Villa. With Montreal winning last night and the chance at the playoffs looking extremely dim, why not see what Poku can do up top?
Click to expand...
We have no wingers, so the 4231 is so dumb for our team
 
Tom in Fairfield CT said:
We have no wingers, so the 4231 is so dumb for our team
Click to expand...

Kind of agree. Playing the 4-2-3-1 with narrow attacking midfielders can be done and has worked alright our last few matches.

The question is how to get width in the attack without exposing the defense. Our fullbacks bombing forward has failed and resulted in poor defensive performances. We have no wingers in the front to take the fullback's place.

The 4-3-1-2 would be great to try. Play Lampard and Mix with Pirlo in the holding midfield, and Poku in the attacking mid spot. Instead of subbing Poku on for Lampard in the second half, sub in Jacobson to provide extra legs and defense.

Villa gets his needed striker partner with Mullins today, and look to upgrade on Mullins in the offseason.

Finally, for the width, a 3-man holding mid-field could help the defense enough to let Angelino/Allen/Iraola bomb up the wings.

I bet we stick with the 4-2-3-1 with Grabavoy and Jacobson starting for the rest of the year. But we'll go back to the drawing board over the offseason and start from scratch with a couple new player additions.
 
I personally would like to try Mix and Pirlo in the double pivot and Poku as RAM. But I also agree that Poku should get a shot at right striker. 4-3-1-2 is the formation that gets all of our best players in but at the same time it would leave us open on our wings which we have struggled to cover even with midfielders on the wings.

Our defense has looked better with our fullbacks staying home and a 4312 would definitely require them to attack more. If we shore up the defense in the offseason, it would be a possibility but idk if we can do it now.
 
Because I always love the visual:

NYCFC-formation-tactics.png


I put an "*" by players I think could be upgraded or replaced in the offseason. The second striker is supposed to be "Mullins*."

It looks almost like a 4-4-2 Diamond, but it most definitely doesn't play like one, as all three of Lampard, Mix, and Pirlo act as holding midfielders instead of shuttlers. Mix plays with defense as a priority.

Pros: Villa gets a strike partner, deep lying midfield prevents counter attacks, fullbacks are free to run forward to provide width, Poku starts in a natural position.

Cons: Mix is completely taken out of the offense, lack fluidity in the midfield, may be tough to transition from defense to an attacking position given the slow midfield.

Eh, maybe slightly better than the current 4-2-3-1, but no silver bullet either.
 
Can someone who has embedded from lineup builder PM me the code?
 
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