MLS - March 22 - Miami (YS)

[Gotham Gator]

I don't think Kevin is tall enough to have contested the ball on the third goal even with perfect positioning. The bigger error was on whoever's job it was to close down the player that sent in the cross.

True, but at least getting better positioning against the Miami attacker to make the header more difficult

sometimes all you need is a nudge to throw a player off. if he was there, he could have made it difficult in some manner without committing a foul. a hip check always worked for me against taller players who i knew would out jump me. it throws them off balance and it's "incidental contact" when done correctly

jansen said he talked to kevin about being in a better position to do just that. he wasn't where he needed to be and i think that's just lack of experience and maybe lack of coaching for a converted forward.

Also, O’Toole could have just grabbed him around the neck and pulled him down at the far post.

 

[mgarbowski]

2. Messi with a lighthearted kick right into Maxi that's called a yellow card, moving up the ball, before his free kick that led to a goal

I didn't see this during the match because a bunch of plastics blocked my view, so I only saw it because I looked for it after this comment.

I'm of 2 minds about it. It's a really clever yet BS play by Messi. I'd like to think it's beneath him, but the truth is Michael Jordan, Max Verstappen and Tom Brady would all pull crap like this for any minor advantage.

Messi wanted a closer free kick, and Maxi obliged him by walking a few yards in front of him. So Messi made a perfectly legal quick start and kicked the ball directly into Maxi, which was technically obstruction and reset the free kick a few yards closer. It should not have been a yellow. Maxi in no way intentionally delayed play. He was oblivious and guilty of no more than assuming there would be a fully settled free kick play. But apart from that it was by the book. I don't like that sort of "cleverness," but that's more of a personal ethos than a rule or general norm violation.

 

[mgarbowski]

Wondering if anyone tried to drive south down the Deegan post-game yesterday. I parked on the other side of Grand Concourse, and instead of taking me to 87 south my phone navigation sent me over the Third Avenue bridge into Manhattan, then over the Triboro into Queens from there. I even checked a second app and it wanted the same route. It went fine, if a bit out of the way, and I'm wondering how bad the Deegan was for 2 apps to avoid it with such a detour.

 

[LionNYC]

I’m not going to respond to this Miami homer on Twitter but how does “he lands inside the box” have anything to do with handling outside the box? Beyond stupid and lacking football awareness.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036277324698550635

 

[ZYanksRule]

I’m not going to respond to this Miami homer on Twitter but how does “he lands inside the box” have anything to do with handling outside the box? Beyond stupid and lacking football awareness.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036277324698550635

Almost positive most of these Messi fanboy accounts are AI.

 

[GratefulDawg]

Almost positive most of these Messi fanboy accounts are AI.

They are just as plastic.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

If a goalkeeper commits a foul outside the box, the criteria for dogso is different because the keeper is outside the box and the goal is not protected. Ojeda very clearly would have been the get that ball, take a touch and get a shot off. Dogso would have been the correct call if the ref judged the ball to have been outside the box.

I do think the main issue is that the angle on the broadcast is not great. If they definitely need a camera angle right on 18 yard box line. Angles can be very deceiving on tv. I remember the 2022 world cup where because they had the camera on the end line, this ball was correctly ruled in play


I think unfortunately Yankee Stadium probably cost us a point here because based on some of the fan angles the ball does look outside the box but that's not something var has access to and needs to meet the clear and obvious mistake standard- which they probably could have done with the correct angle.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I think it also matters whether he initially touched in the box and carried it out vs. only handling it outside the box.

In the former situation, the keeper has made a legal play to break up the attack and then committed a violation by not releasing the ball sooner. It's a violation and free kick, but it's not DOGSO.

In the latter situation, the keeper has committed a violation to prevent the opponent from getting to the ball. That's DOGSO and reviewable by the VAR.

 

[Marito]

I think it also matters whether he initially touched in the box and carried it out vs. only handling it outside the box.

In the former situation, the keeper has made a legal play to break up the attack and then committed a violation by not releasing the ball sooner. It's a violation and free kick, but it's not DOGSO.

In the latter situation, the keeper has committed a violation to prevent the opponent from getting to the ball. That's DOGSO and reviewable by the VAR.

I understand the logic of this, but I don't know if PRO does. The Creapeau DOGSO red was exactly that situation, I think. He initially grabbed the ball a yard or two inside the the box, but a combination of momentum and brain-fart carried him outside the box with it still in his hands. Or maybe he was fumbling without a proper grip on it and that was why he kept moving forward while touching the ball. I dunno. But he handled it inside the box initially.

 

[LionNYC]

As expected, Wiebe upholds the calls on the field about the St. Clair handball and the Miami offside. No talk about the Nico pulldown in the box.

 

[moogoo]

If a goalkeeper commits a foul outside the box, the criteria for dogso is different because the keeper is outside the box and the goal is not protected. Ojeda very clearly would have been the get that ball, take a touch and get a shot off. Dogso would have been the correct call if the ref judged the ball to have been outside the box.

I do think the main issue is that the angle on the broadcast is not great. If they definitely need a camera angle right on 18 yard box line. Angles can be very deceiving on tv. I remember the 2022 world cup where because they had the camera on the end line, this ball was correctly ruled in play
View attachment 14467

I think unfortunately Yankee Stadium probably cost us a point here because based on some of the fan angles the ball does look outside the box but that's not something var has access to and needs to meet the clear and obvious mistake standard- which they probably could have done with the correct angle.

there are no different DOGSO criteria for goalies outside the box. the criteria are the same. where does it say that there are different criteria when it's a goalie committing the potential DOGSO infringement?

imo, refs probably didn't call it because they didn't think the ball was completely outside the box. VAR may have reviewed it for DOGSO, but first, they would have had to decide that the non-call was a clear and obvious error. Camera angles suck so that didn't happen and the ref couldn't determine if DOGSO was on the table. Main ref didn't have the angle to call anything and linesmen must not have thought it was clearly outside the box from whatever angle they were at.

FWIW (not much at all) Weibe on instant replay said it's not clear the ball it outside the box unlike with crepeaux where it was absolutely clear. thus, correct call by refs.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I think it also matters whether he initially touched in the box and carried it out vs. only handling it outside the box.

In the former situation, the keeper has made a legal play to break up the attack and then committed a violation by not releasing the ball sooner. It's a violation and free kick, but it's not DOGSO.

In the latter situation, the keeper has committed a violation to prevent the opponent from getting to the ball. That's DOGSO and reviewable by the VAR.

Not sure if that's the criteria, he is handling the ball because an attacker is coming to get it.

 

[moogoo]

As expected, Wiebe upholds the calls on the field about the St. Clair handball and the Miami offside. No talk about the Nico pulldown in the box.

no talk of the foul on nico is crazy. definitely needed to be highlighted.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

there are no different DOGSO criteria for goalies outside the box. the criteria are the same. where does it say that there are different criteria when it's a goalie committing the potential DOGSO infringement?

imo, refs probably didn't call it because they didn't think the ball was completely outside the box. VAR may have reviewed it for DOGSO, but first, they would have had to decide that the non-call was a clear and obvious error. Camera angles suck so that didn't happen and the ref couldn't determine if DOGSO was on the table. Main ref didn't have the angle to call anything and linesmen must not have thought it was clearly outside the box from whatever angle they were at.

FWIW (not much at all) Weibe on instant replay said it's not clear the ball it outside the box unlike with crepeaux where it was absolutely clear. thus, correct call by refs.

One of the criteria of DOGSO is "location and number of defenders," so yes, if the goalkeeper is located not in the net, it is a big factor in determining DOGSO.

 

[moogoo]

One of the criteria of DOGSO is "location and number of defenders," so yes, if the goalkeeper is located not in the net, it is a big factor in determining DOGSO.

Once the keeper is out of the box (not out of the net), he's an outfield player. He's considered a defender in the DOGSO evaluation. That doesn't change the criteria in anyway.

 

[ZYanksRule]

The weirdest part of this is that there should have been a camera on the 18-yard box. MLS mandated cameras to be on each 18 yard box during the RSN era of broadcasting. Either that camera was pointed somewhere else in the moment or MLS has budget-cutted the most important camera for VAR purposes out of its broadcast.

 

[MancBlue]

A lot of Miami fans there or are they local Argentinians following Messi?

 

[ZYanksRule]

A lot of Miami fans there or are they local Argentinians following Messi?

Messi plasticos. The real Miami fans don't travel particularly well.

 

[LionNYC]

Messi plasticos. The real Miami fans don't travel particularly well.

Agreed. Looking at the Miami away section at Yankee Stadium, it didn't look like a lot of Miami fans.