US Youth Development

[Sabo]

This is an underlying truth that only about 10% of the people debating the issue right now seem to grasp. Even Sciaretta's article about the lost generation discusses that one reason we have an abundance of good young players after 5 years of close to nothing is that's when the various youth academies started in earnest.

In other words, things have gotten a lot better over the last 15 years or so, but we are only just beginning to see those players graduate into the professional ranks. That's not to say the current setup is without flaws, but there has been, and continues to be, a lot of improvement. It just takes time for the benefits to flow.

When thinking about how we can set up a system where the academies are finding and developing the best players outside the pay-to-play model, I go back how this country usually gets things done. We create financial incentives to motivate the desired behavior. If you create a system where the academies can profit from finding and developing the best players, you will see them materialize out of thin air to do it.

Truth. Brother. Truth.

Seems like they aren't necessarily compensated?

One of the non USMNT reasons Sunil has to go is that under his watch USSoccer has opposed sharing transfer fees with downstream Non-MLS youth clubs as required by FIFA (google Yedlin transfer fee dispute). This HAS to happen to give all youth soccer stakeholders an incentive to funnel players to teams where they are most likely to become professional if they have the potential.

The biggest problem today is the Weston McKennie problem. MLS teams have to be able to profit from the talent they are developing that get signed in Europe. There are enough smart businesspeople involved in MLS now that I am sure this is going to be a top priority over the offseason and we are going to see changes in roster rules.

The other thing I find to be insanity about the US system - and I understand why this happens, but I hate it all the same - is that each MLS club is only allowed a 75 mile (or whatever it is) exclusivity area.

There is a practical component to this. It is nearly impossible for most parents to drive 2-3 hours each way to practice 4 times a week. Hopefully 10 years from now USL and USL2 clubs will have their own academies to cover parts of the US that are not in MLS metro areas. We aren't there yet.

 

[Ulrich]

Truth. Brother. Truth.



One of the non USMNT reasons Sunil has to go is that under his watch USSoccer has opposed sharing transfer fees with downstream Non-MLS youth clubs as required by FIFA (google Yedlin transfer fee dispute). This HAS to happen to give all youth soccer stakeholders an incentive to funnel players to teams where they are most likely to become professional if they have the potential.

The biggest problem today is the Weston McKennie problem. MLS teams have to be able to profit from the talent they are developing that get signed in Europe. There are enough smart businesspeople involved in MLS now that I am sure this is going to be a top priority over the offseason and we are going to see changes in roster rules.



There is a practical component to this. It is nearly impossible for most parents to drive 2-3 hours each way to practice 4 times a week. Hopefully 10 years from now USL and USL2 clubs will have their own academies to cover parts of the US that are not in MLS metro areas. We aren't there yet.

The only way solidarity payments can work in the US is if they are to non-pay2play clubs. If the club is already being paid by the player’s family then they have no right to double-dipping - the player himself should receive the solidarity.

 

[Sabo]

The only way solidarity payments can work in the US is if they are to non-pay2play clubs. If the club is already being paid by the player’s family then they have no right to double-dipping - the player himself should receive the solidarity.

Turf time for practice for competitive teams once/week from November-March = $40,000 - $50,000. Maintaining 4 soccer fields = $30,000+/year. Non-Parent Coach (whole other thread) = $4500/team (way below market). 700 kids at rec level, 250 kids at travel/competitive level. All volunteer administration and rec coaches. Even operating as a non-profit the Youth Club has to have some level of pay to play to be able to offer a somewhat decent level of technical support and facilities to young players. That is the reality.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Turf time for practice for competitive teams once/week from November-March = $40,000 - $50,000. Maintaining 4 soccer fields = $30,000+/year. Non-Parent Coach (whole other thread) = $4500/team (way below market). 700 kids at rec level, 250 kids at travel/competitive level. All volunteer administration and rec coaches. Even operating as a non-profit the Youth Club has to have some level of pay to play to be able to offer a somewhat decent level of technical support and facilities to young players. That is the reality.

I think we are missing the fact that we already have an extensive free to play athletic infrastructure already embedded in the public school system.

If you look at development system in basketball, there is a synergy between public school and AAU clubs that gives poor intercity kids access to elite clubs and exposure to college programs.

 

[Fake Jew]

I think we are missing the fact that we already have an extensive free to play athletic infrastructure already embedded in the public school system.

If you look at development system in basketball, there is a synergy between public school and AAU clubs that gives poor intercity kids access to elite clubs and exposure to college programs.

I'm glad you mentioned Basketball in this because the same problems are starting to happen. Insanely skilled players are coming in from Europe and Americans just aren't as good in that area. It obviously doesn't mean as much as it does in Soccer though.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I'm glad you mentioned Basketball in this because the same problems are starting to happen. Insanely skilled players are coming in from Europe and Americans just aren't as good in that area. It obviously doesn't mean as much as it does in Soccer though.

IMHO, USA Basketball has to improve its coaching education soooo much more than US Soccer. The USA Basketball coaching certification is only one level and is basically is a money grab.

FIBA Europe has a whole coaching certification program like UEFA. All club coaches need the appropriate certification and age level. Clubs follow the long term development model and are able to build skills from early ages until the professional ranks.

Where as, American basketball high school and college coaches have severe restrictions on when they can work with their players in offseason. Coaches don't need certification. AAU programs are also geared towards exposure and focused on winning tournaments rather than building skills.

Access is not as big of an issue as in soccer though.

 

[Gotham Gator]

One of the non USMNT reasons Sunil has to go is that under his watch USSoccer has opposed sharing transfer fees with downstream Non-MLS youth clubs as required by FIFA (google Yedlin transfer fee dispute). This HAS to happen to give all youth soccer stakeholders an incentive to funnel players to teams where they are most likely to become professional if they have the potential.

The biggest problem today is the Weston McKennie problem. MLS teams have to be able to profit from the talent they are developing that get signed in Europe. There are enough smart businesspeople involved in MLS now that I am sure this is going to be a top priority over the offseason and we are going to see changes in roster rules.

Interesting. Given Gulati's day job, I would suspect that he is inclined to create a system driven by having the proper incentives. I would be interested in hearing him discuss this.

 

[Sabo]

I think we are missing the fact that we already have an extensive free to play athletic infrastructure already embedded in the public school system.

If you look at development system in basketball, there is a synergy between public school and AAU clubs that gives poor intercity kids access to elite clubs and exposure to college programs.

My youth soccer club has a U17 girls team on which nearly all of the girls are going to be paying D3 soccer in college. Good team. Good players. The varsity high school coach of most of the team doesn't want anyone on the high school team to ever pass the ball backwards during a game. When my daughter played for her she did not want of the defenders to ever cross midfield. (Picture 18 players in and around the box and 4 defenders 30 yards away standing in a row at midfield). There are well coached public school programs, but there are plenty of schools that aren't. Soccer is still a second class sport at a lot of high schools.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

My youth soccer club has a U17 girls team on which nearly all of the girls are going to be paying D3 soccer in college. Good team. Good players. The varsity high school coach of most of the team doesn't want anyone on the high school team to ever pass the ball backwards during a game. When my daughter played for her she did not want of the defenders to ever cross midfield. (Picture 18 players in and around the box and 4 defenders 30 yards away standing in a row at midfield). There are well coached public school programs, but there are plenty of schools that aren't. Soccer is still a second class sport at a lot of high schools.

USSF needs to work with the state athletic federations on subsidizing coaching education across the board. Would love to see every high school coach get a C license. and every middle school coach get a D license.

 

[Fantazma]

USSF needs to work with the state athletic federations on subsidizing coaching education across the board. Would love to see every high school coach get a C license. and every middle school coach get a D license.

is this what happens in other HS sports? im honestly asking....like in basketball/football....are the license training subsidized or paid in full?

 

[Mario]

My youth soccer club has a U17 girls team on which nearly all of the girls are going to be paying D3 soccer in college. Good team. Good players. The varsity high school coach of most of the team doesn't want anyone on the high school team to ever pass the ball backwards during a game. When my daughter played for her she did not want of the defenders to ever cross midfield. (Picture 18 players in and around the box and 4 defenders 30 yards away standing in a row at midfield). There are well coached public school programs, but there are plenty of schools that aren't. Soccer is still a second class sport at a lot of high schools.

soccer in a lot of high schools, like mine, is a way for kids to earn another letter in high school, or to put on a college application.

 

[Sabo]

USSF needs to work with the state athletic federations on subsidizing coaching education across the board. Would love to see every high school coach get a C license. and every middle school coach get a D license.

VERY common for union contracts to require coaching slots be offered to teachers/school district employees first and only hire outside coaches if no school district employee wants the extra work/extra money. I would love to see that too, but the requirement would have to be collectively bargained.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

is this what happens in other HS sports? im honestly asking....like in basketball/football....are the license training subsidized or paid in full?

This isn't happening in any sport. The initial qualifications to coach any sport at a public high school in NYC are being a licensed teacher with cpr/aed/first aid/concussion training. There are no sport specific training in anything.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

VERY common for union contracts to require coaching slots be offered to teachers/school district employees first and only hire outside coaches if no school district employee wants the extra work/extra money. I would love to see that too, but the requirement would have to be collectively bargained.

New York State Education Department can mandate coach certification without it being collectively bargained. Educational law and policy does not have to be collectively bargained.

 

[Mario]

This isn't happening in any sport. The initial qualifications to coach any sport at a public high school in NYC are being a licensed teacher with cpr/aed/first aid/concussion training. There are no sport specific training in anything.

i don't expect them to change this just for soccer since they haven't for any other sports.... that is, unless the school is like a soccer academy boarding school type of thing and they make it into its own league separate from HS soccer.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

i don't expect them to change this just for soccer since they haven't for any other sports.... that is, unless the school is like a soccer academy boarding school type of thing and they make it into its own league separate from HS soccer.

I'm not hopeful for high school soccer developing elite talent since the US Developmental Academy calendar basically tells high school soccer to fuck off, but I think it would be more practical and important to start up elementary and middle school programs and find a way to coordinate those programs with DA clubs and coaches.

 

[QuigrNYCFC]

New York State Education Department can mandate coach certification without it being collectively bargained. Educational law and policy does not have to be collectively bargained.

I don't think kids looking to develop into professionals should be playing high school soccer.

I believe one of the first things Klinsmann did was change and extend the Us sanctioned team season calendar to directly conflict with high school soccer seasons.

 

[Mario]

I'm not hopeful for high school soccer developing elite talent since the US Developmental Academy calendar basically tells high school soccer to fuck off, but I think it would be more practical and important to start up elementary and middle school programs and find a way to coordinate those programs with DA clubs and coaches.

i meant this would only take place if there was a change of outlook and soccer academies, were real academies like they have all over the world or "soccer schools" I think IMG Academy has that kind of outlook. I don't know much about it but its my assumption, if anyone wants to shed info on that.

 

[Sabo]

I'm not hopeful for high school soccer developing elite talent since the US Developmental Academy calendar basically tells high school soccer to fuck off, but I think it would be more practical and important to start up elementary and middle school programs and find a way to coordinate those programs with DA clubs and coaches.

Non-profit youth soccer clubs are the best places for this to occur. You want to give as many kids as possible the opportunity to play at low or no cost and be coached by folks who are equipped to teach basic skills. The public schools don't provide a means (with few exceptions) to develop soccer talent. I think US Youth Development at all levels from the starters to the most skilled is way better than it was 10 years ago.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Non-profit youth soccer clubs are the best places for this to occur. You want to give as many kids as possible the opportunity to play at low or no cost and be coached by folks who are equipped to teach basic skills. The public schools don't provide a means (with few exceptions) to develop soccer talent. I think US Youth Development at all levels from the starters to the most skilled is way better than it was 10 years ago.

There no reason why you can't combine the best of both worlds. Partner a school with a club. School can provide the facilities and location and the club provides an afterschool program. The issue with the club idea is that they have not figured out a way to make it low cost or free and provide quality coaching.