Toronto Away Postmatch

[SanBartG]

You started out ok, showing that Pirlo made a bunch of tackles, but trying to prove your point that he's some defensive destroyer by showing that our defenders made no tackles (gasp) is cherry picking. Here's the defense's contributions:
View attachment 7316

There are other defensive stats other than tackles you know. Brillant and Sweat made ZERO embarrassing plays to give up a goal, and they hid behind a player in the wall ZERO times.

Finally, here's the point you don't get. You can make a hundred tackles in the game, but if you mail it in at the top of the 18 against Giovinco, you did a bad job defending. Thats why he can't play, because he's exposable. A good team will get him to defend against their best player and all it takes is one or two moments to lose a game.

Combine that with the fact that NONE of Pirlo's orgasm-inducing passes led to a quality chance and he is a net negative.

This is a little glib. There is def more to defense than tackles but Giovinco has proved he'll out maneuver some of the best defenders in the game. Whatever Pirlo's faults were against Gio shouldn't detract from an otherwise respectable defensive performance.

The wall- agreed. Poor form. No excuse.

The fact that Pirlo's passes didn't result in goals can rest on him alone. Blame those that failed to capitalize. Pirlo's part is to get the ball to the right person at the right time. As far that goes, it sounds like he was successful.

For 2 defenders to have zero tackles is far worse than any of Pirlo's shortcomings yesterday.

 

[SanBartG]

However I go generally agree that Pirlo's style doesn't fit much with the team's when we are successful. But that's more about a mismatch of styles than Pirlo's flaws.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

However I go generally agree that Pirlo's style doesn't fit much with the team's when we are successful. But that's more about a mismatch of styles than Pirlo's flaws.

i have no problem with this. However i think our style does not work on every single team and Viera needs to find another style to adapt. Whether the new decision includes pirlo or not i dont know, but something needs to change.

 

[roxfontaine]

Yes, but, if you ignore league analysts, our own analyst, our own coach's lineup decisions, the scorelines when he plays, and your eyes, clearly you'll see he deserves to start......

Marry me.

 

[JayH]

The fact that Pirlo's passes didn't result in goals can rest on him alone. Blame those that failed to capitalize. Pirlo's part is to get the ball to the right person at the right time. As far that goes, it sounds like he was successful.

I agree with this, and this is not Pirlo's fault at all. It's a systematic failure which has been proven to fail time and time again because the perfect 30 yard Pirlo pass doesn't put us in the best position to score goals. The momentum from an attack that has started from behind leaving defenders on their heels with decisions as to how to cover players both cutting through the middle and overlapping on the outside is where we exploit the mismatches. Whether it is a slower build up from the back or a quicker transition prompted by a Ring or Yangel interception, that's how we score our goals. It's never by kick ball or bomb pass requiring Villa or Harrison to proceed 1 v 4. We aren't built to play that way. That's not Pirlo's fault - but it's why Pirlo shouldn't play.

 

[Marito]

Yup, agreed. There are major issues with this roster and we have no plan B, C, or D for losing Villa. Last fall was a lesson in this team getting burned out down the stretch. What have we done to reduce the amount of wear and tear a year-older DV is putting on himself? Not a thing. Giovinco gets to operate with Jozy drawing attention and punishing CBs, and we continue to want to have Villa on his own.

Part of the problem is, I think, the team doesn't want to commit a lot of money to a DP CF to replace Villa because he may play 2-3 more years. On the other hand, Okoli is so far from a viable alternative, that we're still very Villa-dependent. Also, many times Okoli doesn't come in for Villa but rather Villa drops back into a "10" position and Okoli works as a bad target forward. But we already have a 10 in Maxi. So it's difficult. Our offensive midfield has talent, and it seems a waste to drop Villa to accommodate somebody as limited as Okoli.

 

[Marito]

At no point did i say hes a defensive destroyer just pointing out hes not the liability most people think he is. Anyone could have flubbed that tackle on Gio, he made a nice play, its reaching to blame that golaso on Pirlo. Pirlos passes led to very good chances all game so im not sure which game you were watching, but its not his fault if his team mates cant finish. You seem to want to make excuses for 2 defenders not having a single tackle but not for Pirlo getting beat by arguably one of the best players in the league.

The Pirlo behind the wall was laughable.

If you're saying he was "definitely our best defensive player in the midfield" you're pretty much saying that he was a destroyer and you're implying he's a better defensive mid than Alex Ring.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

If you're saying he was "definitely our best defensive player in the midfield" you're pretty much saying that he was a destroyer and you're implying he's a better defensive mid than Alex Ring.

im saying yesterday he had a better game than ring did defensively. that in no way makes him a defensive destroyer.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

However I go generally agree that Pirlo's style doesn't fit much with the team's when we are successful. But that's more about a mismatch of styles than Pirlo's flaws.

Regardless of who we want to put individual at fault, either way means we should not play Pirlo.

 

[LeeNYCFC]

Marry me.

Lol, we'll have to run it by our wives first obviously

 

[Joseph Bianco]

Regardless of who we want to put individual at fault, either way means we should not play Pirlo.

ill say u have a decent argument if you say we play better without him, but thats not Pirlo's fault. He comes in and does what hes supposed to do and for the most part does it to perfection. If that doesnt work the fault is not his, thats Vieras fault. Pirlo doesnt make the tactics or the lineups.

 

[LeeNYCFC]

Part of the problem is, I think, the team doesn't want to commit a lot of money to a DP CF to replace Villa because he may play 2-3 more years. On the other hand, Okoli is so far from a viable alternative, that we're still very Villa-dependent. Also, many times Okoli doesn't come in for Villa but rather Villa drops back into a "10" position and Okoli works as a bad target forward. But we already have a 10 in Maxi. So it's difficult. Our offensive midfield has talent, and it seems a waste to drop Villa to accommodate somebody as limited as Okoli.

Yeah I agree we won't see his replacement for another couple years, but I'm more focused on getting the best out of those couple years. We have a major lack of size and physicality up front, on multiple occasions Maxi was our "target man" yesterday. It's just not good enough and we'll get more out of Villa if he has help up top. Villa only knows how to give his all and that's amazing for us but it's also a challenge for Vieira and the FO to keep him fresh and effective in spite of his natural inclination to go all out. He hates sitting out or subbing off, so the only solution is giving him more help up front

 

[dannd23]

i think hes saying the Brillant slide was Ring. I honestly dont remember. Maybe im completely wrong and have no idea what he means.

Yeah I meant Ring, probably. Yesterday's game is a bit of blur, thankfully.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

ill say u have a decent argument if you say we play better without him, but thats not Pirlo's fault. He comes in and does what hes supposed to do and for the most part does it to perfection. If that doesnt work the fault is not his, thats Vieras fault. Pirlo doesnt make the tactics or the lineups.

But is it fair to say that its PV's fault when we don't have the MLS equivalent of Vidal & Pogba in the midfield and Chiellini, Bonucci, and Barzagli on the backline? Pirlo was never a fit for our roster and CFG shouldn't have jammed him on.

 

[Joseph Bianco]

But is it fair to say that its PV's fault when we don't have the MLS equivalent of Vidal & Pogba in the midfield and Chiellini, Bonucci, and Barzagli on the backline? Pirlo was never a fit for our roster and CFG shouldn't have jammed him on.

again im not arguing with you about whether or not he deserves a DP spot, or whether or not he deserves to be a regular starter. My argument is that he does his job very well and blaming him is silly. The only person to blame if you dont think Pirlo fits or should be in the lineup is Viera. If Pirlo wasnt doing his job then fine get mad at him, say he sucks, but its not the case.

 

[D_RoyJenkins]

I think it's pointless to crucify Pirlo, it was either him or Mikey Lopez and I'm picking Pirlo every time. The mistake was starting T-Mac. Yes, Pirlo is a defensive liability but he plays well in possession. T-Mac is also a defensive liability and offers nothing offensively. For one match we could've survived with Pirlo but not with T-Mac in the same XI. Jonathan Lewis is better offensively and has the pace and energy to press on defense. The final score was deceiving, even with the starters we had missing we're not that far behind Toronto. I believe at full strength we can beat them, we just need to get healthy in time for the playoffs.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I don't disagree. I'm just hoping the element of newness on the field is enough to overcome PV getting his ass kicked by Vanney.

I by no means think we're favorites against them were we to meet in the playoffs. But I think we will be better IF we have both (Wallace & Herrera) of those two players. They and Maxi are the best pressing defenders we have. Only one pressure defender is worse than none.

I don't disagree, but we are basically banking our chances of success on nothing going wrong, which is a fragile strategy in the extreme.

Vieira is blaming inconsistency, which for all of its measurability and actionability, we may as well be calling "bad juju". The entire forum is harping on about Pirlo, injuries and refereeing decisions. And more bad juju.

My problem with focusing on personnel issues / the lack of an academy is that these are problems we won't be able to solve without essentially waiting, by which point Villa is going to be well into his dotage.

To me, the answer in the short term seems fairly clear - we need a Plan B that gives us the ability to soak up pressure, attack empty space quickly on the counter and generate chances without moving our entire team into the attacking half.

The good news is that we showed we can do it against the Red Bulls and one man down against Chicago. The bad news is that it seems like we have our collective head in the sand.

 

[Seven]

Do you think Villa, Giovinco, Jozy and Bradley traveled together to Chicago?

 

[LionNYC]

Do you think Villa, Giovinco, Jozy and Bradley traveled together to Chicago?

This is the one week of the year where Villa gets to take a private plane by himself. Thanks Sheik Mansour.

 

[LionNYC]

A worrying point about the 4-0 scoreline. It really puts us a bad place for the tiebreakers.

3 NYCFC 37 Pts 22 GP 11 W 7 L 4 T 40 GF 31 GA 9 GD
4 Red Bulls 35 Pts 21 GP 11 W 8 L 2 T 32 GF 26 GA 6 GD
5 ATL 34 Pts 21 GP 10 W 7 L 4 T 41 GF 28 GA 13 GD

Should Atlanta win over SKC they would jump ahead of us, level on points, ahead in GD by +3. We play a 6 PM, they play at 8 PM.

So in the East spots 2-5 are a wide open. 2: Bye 3-4: Home Single Game 5: Away Single Game