2022 Roster Discussion
- Thread starter Fantazma
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Not data, just simply watching him. He doesn't get beat 1v1 hardly at all, he's that good.
He isn't quite as great in space and allowing runners to get between him and the CB. But I also wouldn't say it's egregious. Probably similar to other fullbacks.
But again, the way we use our fullbacks, we need more from him getting forward.
He'll learn. Plus he can fool you because he seems so ungainly. He's kind of like the Vlad Guerrero Sr. of soccer, all long legs and lurching around and you wonder how he can even play, and then you look at the numbers and you almost can't believe it.
But he'll get in your shorts, man. When I'm looking at a U20 defender that's the first thing I want to see. The rest can be coached.
Back to work here . . .
I don't know if the stuff he is bad at (athleticism and positional sense) are things that you can work on. He's a mediocre athlete playing a position that requires excellent athleticism. And he can only pass the ball backwards.
I'm curious as to where you see the lack of athleticism. He doesn't have the best acceleration, but he's got great top-line speed and is very strong.
Positional awareness also has to be one of the top things that you can work on / improve.
And yes, his passing is terrible. He has to be likely the worst passing fullback in the league and I don't think that's hyperbole.
you can work on positional sense. you can improve in speed and agility. athletes do it all the time. but he's gotten to this point doing what he does and no one has corrected him or made him work on improving his running gait and balance. leaves me thinking if i'm the only one who thinks it's bad? he just seems very uncoordinated to me and lacking in balance.
also, he doesn't seem to strike the ball very well. it's like he's whacking the ball with a club and it goes where it goes, instead of picking a spot and putting it there, as a pro should.
Good stuff, and you can't rule Maxi out as he has 6.
Roberto is correct. I am happy with Heber up top. He's back to putting the ball in the net, and while he doesn't have Taty's skill and determination at the top of the press, not many players do. I'd rather have Heber and a youngster to develop than a good goalscorer that is too old to really defend.
And the priority needs to be another midfielder who can slot in for Keaton - assuming he's really out for the year.
Also, someone mentioned Zelalem. It seems that Delia preferred Zelalem, while Cushing prefers Haak.
I'm not sure about Talles as the #9, unless he's playing deep or wide. He needs to see the ball as much as possible, IMO, with room to create and make progressive movement. Probably better suited for wing to get the most out of his skill. I guess there's no knowing where he will improve over the next 8 months, though.
Here's how I think about Gray. Before Tinnerholm was hurt in 2021, he had played a total of 99 minutes at the MLS level. He suddenly became a starter for a struggling team that earned 1.42 PPG to that point filling in for one of the best RBs in the league. While he played, the club turned it around, and won the Cup. I don't pretend he gets the credit for the improvement. But he was there and it happened.
None of which is an argument against the criticisms. These are real flaws people are describing. But I'm a fan, first, to have fun. It's been a lot of fun since he started featuring. Plus he never stops smiling. I'm not his coach or Sporting Director. I just want to enjoy him.
If the club replaces him with someone better, I won't be put out in the least. But he's still a backup. It's not his fault Tinnerholm got hurt again and we're doing pretty OK even now.
I don't know. My purpose is not to criticize the criticisms. That's the point of this forum. Pick him apart as much as you want.
But I did want to say what I said. I like Gray. A lot. He stepped up as a kid. He was the second youngest something or other to play in MLS Cup, and we won the Cup. I think we'd find it very hard to find someone to step in as he has for no more than $144,788. If Tinnerholm goes or cannot recover, get someone better. But for me, for now, the kid stays doing what he does.
None of which is an argument against the criticisms. These are real flaws people are describing. But I'm a fan, first, to have fun. It's been a lot of fun since he started featuring. Plus he never stops smiling. I'm not his coach or Sporting Director. I just want to enjoy him.
If the club replaces him with someone better, I won't be put out in the least. But he's still a backup. It's not his fault Tinnerholm got hurt again and we're doing pretty OK even now.
I don't know. My purpose is not to criticize the criticisms. That's the point of this forum. Pick him apart as much as you want.
But I did want to say what I said. I like Gray. A lot. He stepped up as a kid. He was the second youngest something or other to play in MLS Cup, and we won the Cup. I think we'd find it very hard to find someone to step in as he has for no more than $144,788. If Tinnerholm goes or cannot recover, get someone better. But for me, for now, the kid stays doing what he does.
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Here's how I think about Gray. Before Tinnerholm was hurt in 2021, he had played a total of 99 minutes at the MLS level. He suddenly became a starter for a struggling team that earned 1.42 PPG to that point filling in for one of the best RBs in the league. While he played, the club turned it around, and won the Cup. I don't pretend he gets the credit for the improvement. But he was there and it happened.
None of which is an argument against the criticisms. These are real flaws people are describing. But I'm a fan, first, to have fun. It's been a lot of fun since he started featuring. Plus he never stops smiling. I'm not his coach or Sporting Director. I just want to enjoy him.
If the club replaces him with someone better, I won't be put out in the least. But he's still a backup. It's not his fault Tinnerholm got hurt again and we're doing pretty OK even now.
I don't know. My purpose is not to criticize the criticisms. That's the point of this forum. Pick him apart as much as you want.
But I did want to say what I said. I like Gray. A lot. He stepped as a kid. He was the second youngest something or other to play in MLS Cup, and we won the Cup.
Totally agree with your post. I like gray a lot. His energy and attitude are fantastic. Not to mention how he brings out the bronx against certain opponents, which just makes me crack up.
My criticisms of him are things that I think he can work on. Some might be more difficult than others, but I truly wonder if anyone has even mentioned it to him or if I'm just in a strange minority of 1 that thinks it?
Speed and acceleration - can be improved
Agility - Can be improved.
positioning and defensive awareness - can be improved.
Striking the ball well and with accuracy - can be improved.
his balance and coordination would be the more difficult things to improve but anything is possible with modern sports medicine/training. plus, as I said, maybe i'm the only one who thinks this even needs improving?
I want him to succeed and get better. I look forward to seeing it. But if he doesn't improve soon, someone else (maybe another home grown) is going to take his spot after anton eventually leaves/retires.
Heber has 4 months left on his contract. Summer window is where you go shopping. I would hope they have someone lined up to compete with Heber NOW.
What if Heber gets hurt on Saturday night? It would be af ailure if they didn't bring in someone as good as Heber or better int his window.
What if Heber gets hurt on Saturday night? It would be af ailure if they didn't bring in someone as good as Heber or better int his window.
81.6% passing completion, to cherry pick a stat. Somewhere around #135 among all defenders. (They're not numbered, but he's around midway through the 5th page of a 30 player per page list). But I co-sign Mark's post. We won a cup with him playing significant minutes. He tries hard. Let the team bring you pleasure. And sign a better RB if the opportunity presents itself.
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Official MLS player and clubs stats and advanced stats
www.mlssoccer.com
81.6% passing completion, to cherry pick a stat. Somewhere around #135 among all defenders. (They're not numbered, but he's around midway through the 5th page of a 30 player per page list). But I co-sign Mark's post. We won a cup with him playing significant minutes. He tries hard. Let the team bring you pleasure. And sign a better RB if the opportunity presents itself.
MLS Player Stats | MLSsoccer.com
Official MLS player and clubs stats and advanced stats
I'd like to see a nerd stat on passes completed that were in front of him or in the attacking third lol
This is pretty much my exact take. I get far more upset when Santi or Cacha or Malte coughs it up than when Gray does. Ultimately he hasn’t been that much of a liability, even despite his inferiority to Tinner.Here's how I think about Gray. Before Tinnerholm was hurt in 2021, he had played a total of 99 minutes at the MLS level. He suddenly became a starter for a struggling team that earned 1.42 PPG to that point filling in for one of the best RBs in the league. While he played, the club turned it around, and won the Cup. I don't pretend he gets the credit for the improvement. But he was there and it happened.
None of which is an argument against the criticisms. These are real flaws people are describing. But I'm a fan, first, to have fun. It's been a lot of fun since he started featuring. Plus he never stops smiling. I'm not his coach or Sporting Director. I just want to enjoy him.
If the club replaces him with someone better, I won't be put out in the least. But he's still a backup. It's not his fault Tinnerholm got hurt again and we're doing pretty OK even now.
I don't know. My purpose is not to criticize the criticisms. That's the point of this forum. Pick him apart as much as you want.
But I did want to say what I said. I like Gray. A lot. He stepped up as a kid. He was the second youngest something or other to play in MLS Cup, and we won the Cup. I think we'd find it very hard to find someone to step in as he has for no more than $144,788. If Tinnerholm goes or cannot recover, get someone better. But for me, for now, the kid stays doing what he does.
Without looking it up, it's not going to be good. He's worst in the middle third in buildup, often not finding the best positions to get into and not combining well most of the time.
And then his crossing in the final third is really, really bad.
That said, offensively, he has his moments and shows he can be capable. That chop to his right foot to get the shot off against RB was really nice. He's also shown the ability to beat guys 1v1 and occasionally get a decent cross on the ground off (think Santi's goal in the playoffs against the Revs). But crosses in the air are almost always lacking.
I do think there's something here to work with and he can turn into a really solid fullback. It will just take some time.
ETA: Also want to reiterate
mgarbowski's point. I absolutely love his attitude. Both his confidence in himself as well as the fact that he's always having fun out there.Why isn't Tinnerholm playing, does he have a new injury?
And we are losing one of the league's best strikers, but we still have two above average strikers on the roster in Heber and Magno. Not to mention Pereira should get more minutes and has shown an incredible nose for goal in his time so far. Heber has actually scored more goals per minute than Taty.
Put another way, if we never had Taty, I don't think people would be talking about adding a new striker. The focus would be on replacing the loss of Sands and now Parks. We should add a CM.
And we are losing one of the league's best strikers, but we still have two above average strikers on the roster in Heber and Magno. Not to mention Pereira should get more minutes and has shown an incredible nose for goal in his time so far. Heber has actually scored more goals per minute than Taty.
Put another way, if we never had Taty, I don't think people would be talking about adding a new striker. The focus would be on replacing the loss of Sands and now Parks. We should add a CM.
Haak might be that guy while Keaton is out.
Ditto on striker, though. We'll be okay on our attack. Héber's control and fluidity might not be as dramatic as Taty's aggression (mania? LOL) but the dude can put it in the net. He may bring out more of Talles Magno's and Pereira's game, too.
I have a good feeling Heber will re-sign for another 2-3 years. I think the club needs him around, and he loves it here, so it's a win-win all-around. We'll see what happens though.
That being said, I do agree I think we need someone in immediately.
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