2020 CCL

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SoupInNYC

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Didn’t Montreal win the tournament that most mattered for Canada? Or put differently, didn’t Toronto come up short when the only method of advancement was on the line?
I'm not sure I'm following what you're getting at here.
 

canchon

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You couldn’t beat Montreal to win the Canadian Championship. Go home and cry in your beer.

 

moogoo

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You couldn’t beat Montreal to win the Canadian Championship. Go home and cry in your beer.

don't know why this is even being discussed. canadian championship is probably the easiest way to get into CCL and they couldn't do it. so now they "deserve" to get into MLS cup? no. you don't. gtfo. even more reason to want seattle to crush them.
 

adam

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You couldn’t beat Montreal to win the Canadian Championship. Go home and cry in your beer.

Watch TFC win the Cup, and MLS gives away NYCFC's spot to them.
 

Shwafta

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don't know why this is even being discussed. canadian championship is probably the easiest way to get into CCL and they couldn't do it. so now they "deserve" to get into MLS cup? no. you don't. gtfo. even more reason to want seattle to crush them.

You couldn’t beat Montreal to win the Canadian Championship. Go home and cry in your beer.

While I understand you guys's points, you also have to understand their point which is that unlike MLS teams which have three ways into it (open cup, mls cup, mls), they only have one. Even if they have a bad day at the office in the canadian championship, they should be allowed in through means that show they're good over the course of a season. ( listen, we lost to Orlando in the open cup. Imagine if that was our only way into the CCL? You'd be pissed too.) I personally do think that they should be allowed to take a spot from the american side if they deserve so through MLS play. (i.e. 1.5 CAN and 3.5 US, where the .5's are either a canadian or american team).
 
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Ulrich

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While I understand you guys's points, you also have to understand their point which is that unlike MLS teams which have three ways into it (open cup, mls cup, mls), they only have one. Even if they have a bad day at the office in the canadian championship, they should be allowed in through means that show they're good over the course of a season. ( listen, we lost to Orlando in the open cup. Imagine if that was our only way into the CCL? You'd be pissed too.) I personally do think that they should be allowed to take a spot from the american side if they deserve so through MLS play. (i.e. 1.5 CAN and 3.5 US, where the .5's are either a canadian or american team).
Uh, no. All three Canadian teams should be thankful they’re allowed to partake in MLS. There is now a Canadian League that they’re more suited for but for obvious financial reasons they stayed rather than switching. There’s zero reason why they should be granted a US Federation slot to the CCL.
 
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derek_villa

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While I understand you guys's points, you also have to understand their point which is that unlike MLS teams which have three ways into it (open cup, mls cup, mls), they only have one. Even if they have a bad day at the office in the canadian championship, they should be allowed in through means that show they're good over the course of a season. ( listen, we lost to Orlando in the open cup. Imagine if that was our only way into the CCL? You'd be pissed too.) I personally do think that they should be allowed to take a spot from the american side if they deserve so through MLS play. (i.e. 1.5 CAN and 3.5 US, where the .5's are either a canadian or american team).
Well then they should give up their Canadian status just be considered American clubs like who Swansea and Cardiff are considered English clubs in Wales.
 

Shwafta

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Well then they should give up their Canadian status just be considered American clubs like who Swansea and Cardiff are considered English clubs in Wales.
Uh, no. All three Canadian teams should be thankful they’re allowed to partake in MLS. There is now a Canadian League that they’re more suited for but for obvious financial reasons they stayed rather than switching. There’s zero reason why they should be granted a US Federation slot to the CCL.
Fair enough. I like that first idea now, just make 'em american teams. No more Canadian national anthem to slow down kickoff please! lol
 

Gotham Gator

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Canada has 3 first division teams and gets 1 CCL spot. That's not a bad ratio.

It is up to Canada how they would like to award that spot. They could give it to the Canadian team that does best in MLS (either in Supporters' Shield or in the playoffs); they could give it to the winner of the Canadian Cup. They could even do something like give it to the winner of the Canadian Cup unless a different team wins the MLS Cup or the Supporters' Shield. There are all kinds of possibilities.

The point being - Toronto has a beef, but that beef is with Canada Soccer and nobody else.
 

adam

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I agree, but at what point do we consider that Canada has 10 first division teams? I don’t really have an opinion, but the CPL is designated first division officially, no?
if that’s the case, maybe the 3 Canadian MLS teams do go the way of the Welsh in the PL. leave that one spot for the CPL teams. if they did, would they then be allowed to compete in the USOC? And maybe USOC gets granted a 5th spot if they do, which would allow for 3 divisions each with a CCL spot for winning.
 

SoupInNYC

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Gotham Gator Gotham Gator said it right below your post (technically above this post).
I'm not seeing a post by Gotham that fits that order. Perhaps you meant canchon canchon ?

What I really meant, is I don't necessarily see how these two posts fit together.
This is the first time the mls contingent is the top group of teams and is the group most deserving.
Didn’t Montreal win the tournament that most mattered for Canada? Or put differently, didn’t Toronto come up short when the only method of advancement was on the line?
The second one in response to my comment on Montreal not being a top team ahead of Toronto.

I guess I'm interpreting the second one as saying that Montreal fits better in the "top group of teams" than Toronto, because they won the Canadian Championship. Would you say the same thing if New England happened to win the MLS Cup about them over Seattle?

I'm just having trouble reconciling those two posts together.
 

Gotham Gator

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I agree, but at what point do we consider that Canada has 10 first division teams? I don’t really have an opinion, but the CPL is designated first division officially, no?
Maybe when there is more than a de minimis chance that one of the other 7 can win the Cup. I mean, they can give whatever designation they want, but the MLS teams are more than head-and-shoulders above the rest on whatever metric you want to cite (fans, player salaries, investment, etc.).
 

sbrylski

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Reminder that the CPL winner gets a bid to the CONCACAF League. Canada has two routes to the Champions League Final, not one. Therefore, the Canadian Soccer Association cannot hide behind the challenge of providing a path to CPL teams and MLS teams. I am sympathetic, but ultimately this is on the CSA, not MLS or the USSF. They can revise to the following:

Champions League - MLS Cup Winner (if applicable), else the Canadian Championship Winner
CONCACAF League - CPL Winner

This is the simplest solution for the foreseeable future. Win your league's biggest trophy, you're in. If a non-Canadian team wins one of the leagues (MLS), then backfill the spot with the Canadian Championship winner.
 

Shwafta

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Reminder that the CPL winner gets a bid to the CONCACAF League. Canada has two routes to the Champions League Final, not one. Therefore, the Canadian Soccer Association cannot hide behind the challenge of providing a path to CPL teams and MLS teams. I am sympathetic, but ultimately this is on the CSA, not MLS or the USSF. They can revise to the following:

Champions League - MLS Cup Winner (if applicable), else the Canadian Championship Winner
CONCACAF League - CPL Winner

This is the simplest solution for the foreseeable future. Win your league's biggest trophy, you're in. If a non-Canadian team wins one of the leagues (MLS), then backfill the spot with the Canadian Championship winner.
Wouldn't reversing it make sense? MLS Cup Winner or CPL Winner, and then send the cup winner to CONCACAF League?
 

sbrylski

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Wouldn't reversing it make sense? MLS Cup Winner or CPL Winner, and then send the cup winner to CONCACAF League?
You'd have a lot of years where the CPL Champ goes directly to the Champions League while the MLS team qualifies for the CONCACAF League then. I think that would be backwards as a practical matter.
 

Shwafta

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You'd have a lot of years where the CPL Champ goes directly to the Champions League while the MLS team qualifies for the CONCACAF League then. I think that would be backwards as a practical matter.
Nono. I mean, the Canadian Championship (which is a lesser tournament, since it's like 3 games...) would go to CONCACAF League, and the CPL winner (or MLS cup winner, if canadian) would qualify directly...
 

Ulrich

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I'm not seeing a post by Gotham that fits that order. Perhaps you meant canchon canchon ?

What I really meant, is I don't necessarily see how these two posts fit together.


The second one in response to my comment on Montreal not being a top team ahead of Toronto.

I guess I'm interpreting the second one as saying that Montreal fits better in the "top group of teams" than Toronto, because they won the Canadian Championship. Would you say the same thing if New England happened to win the MLS Cup about them over Seattle?

I'm just having trouble reconciling those two posts together.
Yeah, my bad, gave credit to Gotham Gator Gotham Gator when canchon canchon carried the water.

Toronto and Montreal are both middle-pack teams in the MLS standings with only 9pts separating them, so fairly equal comparatively. Being in MLS, they both have a single avenue to the CCL, which is via the Canadian Cup, since the alternate Canadian entry goes to the Canadian League’s Champion. So that one path that they have was lost head-2-head with Montreal. Montreal did what was needed and Toronto didn’t. And seeing how all of the MLS spots are given out to US teams, consideration of the Canadian teams, as being most deserving vs any other, isn’t part of the equation/data set I was looking at; they were irrelevant.
 

sbrylski

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Nono. I mean, the Canadian Championship (which is a lesser tournament, since it's like 3 games...) would go to CONCACAF League, and the CPL winner (or MLS cup winner, if canadian) would qualify directly...
Yeah, and what would usually happen is an MLS team winning the Canadian Championship tournament, sending them to the CONCACAF League, while the CPL winner would usually go directly to the Champions League (unless a Canadian MLS team won the MLS Cup). Which is backwards.