Domènec Torrent Appointed NYCFC Head Coach (June '18) / Mutually Agree to Part Ways (November '19)

[dummyrun]

And I'm somewhere between (1) getting that yet not believing you can walk that line, and (2) arguing reductio ad absurdum to liven up a slow Friday afternoon.

You want reductio ad absurdum? I'm so far on the Christopher Jee side of the spectrum here (it's all about, like, the beauty of the game, man) that I told a friend after the second half of the last Atlanta game how much fun it was.

He told me, rightly, to suck his balls.

 

[dummyrun]

You never really responded when I pointed it out, and I'm curious why you appear to be unconcerned that the team's xGD in Dome's first 9 games was a full goal higher than his last 10 games? Results aside, by your most basic metric, the longer he was here, the more he did what he wanted, and after his best player came back from injury, the worse the team played. Are 9 and 10 games sets too short to matter? Do you have some other reason to expect the team will perform more like the first half of Torrent's time than the second half, or even a blend? Myself, I do not expect the second half trend to continue, necessarily. But I also see no reason to expect something more like the first half, or even a mix. It's an unwritten book. At best, I have as many solid expectation for Torrent as I would for someone who didn't coach the team at all, which is to say I'm keeping things open. I see no statistical grounding for optimism.

It was a thoughtful, well researched response that deserves the same, I just haven't had time to do that in the last few weeks. The stub answer for now is that I think both expected goals and coach evaluations work best over larger samples.

 

[mgarbowski]

It was a thoughtful, well researched response that deserves the same, I just haven't had time to do that in the last few weeks. The stub answer for now is that I think both expected goals and coach evaluations work best over larger samples.

The short answer is fine; don’t work on some extended response unless you otherwise want to.

 

[SoupInNYC]

I would agree that our scouting of American players has been rather abysmal. At the core of MLS, you need to have above-average Americans on the roster. They make less than foreign players, don't take up an International Roster Spot and have MLS experience.

I would argue our Americans are some of the worst Americans of the teams that are competitive.

RedBull has the Academy. Atlanta has the scouting. Seattle has the development. We get Tommy McNamara and Rodney Wallace making $200k a year.

I’m not certain if this is because our scouting of Americans is bad, or because we haven’t put any effort into it. I think CFG’s plan with this team is eventually to have the academy pump into it (not quite there yet) and fill the team with strategic signings of talented internationals.

And so far, since the academy isn’t developed enough yet, it’s just internationals. Almost all of our American signings, outside of Johnson, have been role player signings and not expected to gain huge minutes. (Sweat, Ibeagha, Okoli, Wallace, White, Allen)

 

[Kjbert]

I’m not certain if this is because our scouting of Americans is bad, or because we haven’t put any effort into it. I think CFG’s plan with this team is eventually to have the academy pump into it (not quite there yet) and fill the team with strategic signings of talented internationals.

And so far, since the academy isn’t developed enough yet, it’s just internationals. Almost all of our American signings, outside of Johnson, have been role player signings and not expected to gain huge minutes. (Sweat, Ibeagha, Okoli, Wallace, White, Allen)

Good post.

I think we all would like to see a team with the backbone coming from the Academy and the flair coming from abroad.

 

[Ulrich]

Good post.

I think we all would like to see a team with the backbone coming from the Academy and the flair coming from abroad.

How much more flair do you want than Lewis doing a successful rainbow to himself first try which split two defenders?

I get what you’re saying, but it’s artificially suggesting domestic talent can’t hit levels that of the international, and that’s not correct.

 

[canchon]

Not quite all of us

I know, dummyrun, I know. For once I’d like NYCFC to win the actual game instead of the advanced statistics one.

 

[canchon]

How much more flair do you want than Lewis doing a successful rainbow to himself first try which split two defenders?

No, I think that international flair is trying something and then getting bodied off the ball by a bigger, thuggish MLS defender *cough Medina cough*

 

[mgarbowski]

I think the difference in our domestic/international talent acquisition is due to the international market being an open free-for-all, while domestic has to come through specific channels. Those domestic options have been

One Timers
The expansion draft - which for all our blaming of Kries and/or Reyna, there weren't many clearly better options at the time. Orlando did even worse pulling from the same pool of krep.
Allocation Order - we chose Mix with our one shot, which did not work out well (not getting into why or who to blame), but made sense at the time, and almost all fans loved it (though we probably overpaid on salary even if he had worked out)

Ongoing Options
Trades
Free Agency
Annual Super Draft
Academy

Trades do not usually acquire better than what you give. I suppose we could trade some TAM/GAM which we use on international slots and players to buy domestic players, but not sure that's a more efficient use of funds.
Free agency is so limited as to be almost irrelevant.
We've done OK in the draft, but have had to spend GAM/TAM to do so. And there's not a deep pool.

Which leaves the Academy, which seems in good shape, but has taken years to get to the point where it is just starting to graduate kids. Though I'm one who has often said I wish we did not build only from the bottom, year by year, I concede that the alternative approach is harder when you share a region with a pre-extant team that has a very well developed academy of its own. Any independent academies that wanted to align with an MLS team could have already done so, and one could expect that any free-floating high quality senior kids similarly would have been poached by RB also.

 

[Ulrich]

I think the difference in our domestic/international talent acquisition is due to the international market being an open free-for-all, while domestic has to come through specific channels. Those domestic options have been

One Timers
The expansion draft - which for all our blaming of Kries and/or Reyna, there weren't many clearly better options at the time. Orlando did even worse pulling from the same pool of krep.
Allocation Order - we chose Mix with our one shot, which did not work out well (not getting into why or who to blame), but made sense at the time, and almost all fans loved it (though we probably overpaid on salary even if he had worked out)

Ongoing Options
Trades
Free Agency
Annual Super Draft
Academy

Trades do not usually acquire better than what you give. I suppose we could trade some TAM/GAM which we use on international slots and players to buy domestic players, but not sure that's a more efficient use of funds.
Free agency is so limited as to be almost irrelevant.
We've done OK in the draft, but have had to spend GAM/TAM to do so. And there's not a deep pool.

Which leaves the Academy, which seems in good shape, but has taken years to get to the point where it is just starting to graduate kids. Though I'm one who has often said I wish we did not build only from the bottom, year by year, I concede that the alternative approach is harder when you share a region with a pre-extant team that has a very well developed academy of its own. Any independent academies that wanted to align with an MLS team could have already done so, and one could expect that any free-floating high quality senior kids similarly would have been poached by RB also.

Which is why, when you have a domestic talent, you play them and don’t let their skills stagnate/decline. Let’s just cut off our nose to spite our face.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I think the difference in our domestic/international talent acquisition is due to the international market being an open free-for-all, while domestic has to come through specific channels. Those domestic options have been

One Timers
The expansion draft - which for all our blaming of Kries and/or Reyna, there weren't many clearly better options at the time. Orlando did even worse pulling from the same pool of krep.
Allocation Order - we chose Mix with our one shot, which did not work out well (not getting into why or who to blame), but made sense at the time, and almost all fans loved it (though we probably overpaid on salary even if he had worked out)

Ongoing Options
Trades
Free Agency
Annual Super Draft
Academy

Trades do not usually acquire better than what you give. I suppose we could trade some TAM/GAM which we use on international slots and players to buy domestic players, but not sure that's a more efficient use of funds.
Free agency is so limited as to be almost irrelevant.
We've done OK in the draft, but have had to spend GAM/TAM to do so. And there's not a deep pool.

Which leaves the Academy, which seems in good shape, but has taken years to get to the point where it is just starting to graduate kids. Though I'm one who has often said I wish we did not build only from the bottom, year by year, I concede that the alternative approach is harder when you share a region with a pre-extant team that has a very well developed academy of its own. Any independent academies that wanted to align with an MLS team could have already done so, and one could expect that any free-floating high quality senior kids similarly would have been poached by RB also.

I think one of our draft strategies moving forward is to take a GK every year since that position seems to be deeper.

 

[Marito]

I would agree that our scouting of American players has been rather abysmal. At the core of MLS, you need to have above-average Americans on the roster. They make less than foreign players, don't take up an International Roster Spot and have MLS experience.

I would argue our Americans are some of the worst Americans of the teams that are competitive.

RedBull has the Academy. Atlanta has the scouting. Seattle has the development. We get Tommy McNamara and Rodney Wallace making $200k a year.

True. But also MLS is improving at warp speed, and maybe we've not kept us with that specially on the American-player scouting side. If we look at our 2015 roster (a team that was not playoff-caliber but not abysmal either, by MLS standards) those guys are not in the league anymore. Veterans have retired, but others were forced to retire or move to USL by the improving quality of the league. T-Mac and Wallace especially were useful 2 years ago, and now are not even bench material.

 

[Marito]

As to enthusiasm for next season, it is difficult without knowing how high the team is aiming, and through which strategy. If Villa retires or comes back as a non DP, we will suddenly be a mid-table team in terms of roster salary expense (our most expensive player, Maxi, would be #15 approx). Our roster would be OK, but not competitive for MLS Cup. Still good enough for the playoffs most likely, and unchanged from a team that looked among the best but in a league that leaps in quality YOY. But we are hooked on deserving more than that, which teams such as NE and others probably are not.

However I think ATL has been the most successful team in terms of scouting by far, and the only one relying on that strength to both dominate in the league and be a selling team, which is so against the grain for MLS. If you look at the relatively big-spending teams most still rely on old, veteran or at least established stars to carry the load (Giovinco, Bradley, Vela, Schweinsteiger, Gio DS, Altidore, Rooney, etc) the guys at the top of the salary pyramid. NONE of those players will be sold for profit at the end of their contracts, and half of them have misfired. ATL meanwhile has paid hefty transfers but relatively low salaries for guys it'll be able to sell higher, like Almiron and Martinez. We went route A with Villa and failed at route B with Medina. Our 3rd DP is a successful example of the more cautious route C, midpriced for a DP, neither old nor young, similar to Blanco in POR, for example.

I have no idea what model our FO intends to follow and how much they would need to spend to keep apace.

 

[ManhattanValley]

I would agree that our scouting of American players has been rather abysmal. At the core of MLS, you need to have above-average Americans on the roster. They make less than foreign players, don't take up an International Roster Spot and have MLS experience.

I would argue our Americans are some of the worst Americans of the teams that are competitive.

RedBull has the Academy. Atlanta has the scouting. Seattle has the development. We get Tommy McNamara and Rodney Wallace making $200k a year.

I think we're getting a bit carried away with Atlanta's strategy re: American signings. You don't need an elite scouting department to find players like Larentowicz, Garza, Parkhurst or Nagbe. You do need to open your checkbook to sign them, and then hope your foreign DPs/TAM signings build off that platform. Atlanta did both, we did neither. I would argue that with cheap contributors like Sweat and Ibeagha our American scouting team actually gave us an advantage over Atlanta in that department, but the money we saved there was squandered elsewhere.

 

[Kjbert]

I think we're getting a bit carried away with Atlanta's strategy re: American signings. You don't need an elite scouting department to find players like Larentowicz, Garza, Parkhurst or Nagbe. You do need to open your checkbook to sign them, and then hope your foreign DPs/TAM signings build off that platform. Atlanta did both, we did neither. I would argue that with cheap contributors like Sweat and Ibeagha our American scouting team actually gave us an advantage over Atlanta in that department, but the money we saved there was squandered elsewhere.

They had a mechanism to acquire those players that NYCFC and Orlando did not.

 

[mgarbowski]

This is probably based on the same sources as Araos had in his tweet a few days ago, but Kristian Dyer is reporting:

Sources: Domènec Torrent will remain as NYCFC head coach with potential roster shake-up looming

The "roster shake-up" part of the story is actually pretty thin. It just notes that Villa's return is uncertain and Herrera's loan term is over.

 

[mgarbowski]

Enough with the damn schedule Dome:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1070313511232921601

This appears to be a quote translated from an interview in Marti Perarnau's print magazine The Tactical Room.
https://www.martiperarnau.com/produ...-aitana-bonmati-escandalosamente-prometedora/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1069636490458791937

The promotional photo:


The first ironic quote here is:

"In football you do not have time to complain, nor is it good to [do so]..."
also
"The system of the game is not the most important thing, but the sense that you give to the game..."

 

[adam]

Enough with the damn schedule Dome:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1070313511232921601

This appears to be a quote translated from an interview in Marti Perarnau's print magazine The Tactical Room.
https://www.martiperarnau.com/produ...-aitana-bonmati-escandalosamente-prometedora/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1069636490458791937

The promotional photo:
View attachment 9372

The first ironic quote here is:

"In football you do not have time to complain, nor is it good to [do so]..."
also
"The system of the game is not the most important thing, but the sense that you give to the game..."

If someone said to Dome “we could avoid these scheduling problems, but would have to split our home games between both YS and Citi Field.” I wonder what his response would be?

PS. The Islanders are doing great splitting their season this year between Barclays and Nassau Coliseum while their new stadium is constructed.

 

[dummyrun]

Enough with the damn schedule Dome:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1070313511232921601

This appears to be a quote translated from an interview in Marti Perarnau's print magazine The Tactical Room.
https://www.martiperarnau.com/produ...-aitana-bonmati-escandalosamente-prometedora/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1069636490458791937

The promotional photo:
View attachment 9372

The first ironic quote here is:

"In football you do not have time to complain, nor is it good to [do so]..."
also
"The system of the game is not the most important thing, but the sense that you give to the game..."

There's more at the site you linked:

“Cuando me proponen ser entrenador del New York City, enseguida veo que no podré jugar a lo que yo quiero jugar porque, por ejemplo, en la plantilla faltan extremos puros. Pero pensé que ya jugaríamos de otra manera. El fútbol se puede jugar de mil maneras.”

"When they asked me to coach New York City, I saw right away that I couldn't play the way I wanted to because, for example, the squad didn't have pure wingers. But I figured we would play differently. There are a lot of ways to play soccer."

“La MLS está creciendo mucho. Pero si quieren una liga más justa habría que intentar que todos los equipos jugaran con ciclos de partidos parecidos. Si juegas tres partidos en siete días lo bueno sería que también compitieran así todos los demás."

"MLS is growing a lot. But if they want a fairer league, they should try to make it so that all the teams have similar schedules. If you play three games in seven days it'd be good if other teams had to do the same."

“Pero en el fútbol no tienes tiempo de quejarte, ni es bueno hacerlo. Los europeos han mirado siempre la NBA porque sabemos que los mejores en esto son ellos, los norteamericanos. Quizá en fútbol ellos pueden mirar cómo se organizan en otros puntos del mundo, especialmente en Europa.”

"But in soccer you don't have time to complain, and it's not good to do it. Europeans have always looked at the NBA because we know they're the best at it, the Americans. Maybe in soccer they can look at how it's organized in other parts of the world, especially in Europe."

“Lo que marca todo no es el sistema, sino la forma de jugar. El sistema de juego no es tan importante. Lo es el sentido que le das al juego. Quique Setién en el Betis juega con cinco atrás, pero nadie le puede negar que mantiene el estilo de Johan Cruyff.”

"What marks everything isn't the system but the style of play. The system isn't that important. What matters is the sensibility you bring to the game. Quique Setién at Betis plays five at the back, but nobody can deny that he maintains Johan Cruyff's style."

If anybody feels like buying the full interview I'm sure we can cobble together a translation here.

 

[Ulrich]

Enough with the damn schedule Dome:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1070313511232921601

This appears to be a quote translated from an interview in Marti Perarnau's print magazine The Tactical Room.
https://www.martiperarnau.com/produ...-aitana-bonmati-escandalosamente-prometedora/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1069636490458791937

The promotional photo:
View attachment 9372

The first ironic quote here is:

"In football you do not have time to complain, nor is it good to [do so]..."
also
"The system of the game is not the most important thing, but the sense that you give to the game..."

Man, that last quote is damning and shows he lacks the ability of self awareness. All he did was screw with the system that had been working.