MLS - February 24 - Charlotte (Away)

[Kenny]

My thought on the game. As has been the story since last year. Lots of potential, and zero delivery. Again

I don’t care about the potential in three years, the time to win is now.

Yesterday’s game showed as they have in almost every game last year, they can Make opportunities, but they don’t capitalize on them. Bakrar has lots of potential, but seems to be always a step behind. Same with Magno.

I also don’t feel the team management has the right business focus. Seems they look to make money by investing in the unknown talent and getting good money when their skills are evident. This was evident when they sold Pereira, at a time they were looking to rebuild the team. They sold the only guy who was a threat.They need to look more like Miami that is investing heavily to make money not from each player (well Messi being an exception) but by hopefully crushing the league. By doing that ticket prices go up, merch sales go through the roof etc. NYCFC should be the same. Stop being small minded. This is NY we should not be accepting we will lose the first few games because they are away. The team should be looking to WIN.

Sorry for the rant, but am tired of making excuses, I realize now the only thing to do is hope they really did get some good talent that will start to deliver in the next few games.

But to me there was little promising about yesterday, just a repeat of the many games last year.

Well said. This is where I am too. It’s great that we can benefit from CFG’s worldwide scouting and resources. That is not mutually exclusive with trying to win MLS every year. The team i saw last night is missing something, just like last year. I’ll wait another game or two to see Ojeda and Jovan fully integrated, but… I’m not super optimistic right now.

 

[ZYanksRule]

On the road records ... only six MLS teams won at least five road games last season.

So 23 of the 29 teams had four wins or fewer on the road. We can talk about how we want to win every game, but it's simply not going to happen in this league. We're going to lose the majority of our road games. I don't really understand why road records are so bad in this league, but they are. C'est la vie.

 

[mgarbowski]

That is not mutually exclusive with trying to win MLS every year.

MLS is mutually exclusive with trying to win every year, even if you define "winning" as just making the playoffs.

Even with 7-9 teams getting in from each conference, RB has the only double digit playoff streak at 14. The next longest is Philadelphia at 6, then Nashville and Orlando at 4. One thing these teams have in common is never winning MLS Cup. RSL has the only 3 year streak. They last won the Cup in 2009.

Every single one of the remaining 24 teams: the Crew, Sounders, Portland, LAFC, Atlanta, everyone, has an active streak of 2 or fewer.
The NYCFC streak of 7 consecutive appearances is tied for 6th best all-time. Four of the five teams with a longer streak were founding members in 1996. The other is Seattle who began MLS play in 2009. The 2 teams tied with streaks of 7 entered in 2005 (Dallas) and 2009 (RSL).

Excluding teams who haven't been in the league 5 years, only RB, Seattle, and LAFC have made the playoffs a higher percentage than NYCFC. LAFC had the advantage of joining the league when it was possible to make the playoffs in Year 1.
Excluding teams who haven't been in the league 5 years, only Seattle has a playoff streak that is longer relative to its time in the league.

We're very spoiled. If we don't make the playoffs this year, that's maybe sliding to mediocrity. As of now, arguably nobody but Seattle has had it better than us.

 

[Kenny]

MLS is mutually exclusive with trying to win every year, even if you define "winning" as just making the playoffs.

Even with 7-9 teams getting in from each conference, RB has the only double digit playoff streak at 14. The next longest is Philadelphia at 6, then Nashville and Orlando at 4. One thing these teams have in common is never winning MLS Cup. RSL has the only 3 year streak. They last won the Cup in 2009.

Every single one of the remaining 24 teams: the Crew, Sounders, Portland, LAFC, Atlanta, everyone, has an active streak of 2 or fewer.
The NYCFC streak of 7 consecutive appearances is tied for 6th best all-time. Four of the five teams with a longer streak were founding members in 1996. The other is Seattle who began MLS play in 2009. The 2 teams tied with streaks of 7 entered in 2005 (Dallas) and 2009 (RSL).

Excluding teams who haven't been in the league 5 years, only RB, Seattle, and LAFC have made the playoffs a higher percentage than NYCFC. LAFC had the advantage of joining the league when it was possible to make the playoffs in Year 1.
Excluding teams who haven't been in the league 5 years, only Seattle has a playoff streak that is longer relative to its time in the league.

We're very spoiled. If we don't make the playoffs this year, that's maybe sliding to mediocrity. As of now, arguably nobody but Seattle has had it better than us.

Ok, I realize even serial winners go through rebuilding cycles and obviously aren’t going to win the title every year or even most years. When I said that, it was shorthand for being in the running most years, ambitious about success, rather than a youth development system or worse, an afterthought for the mothership.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Ok, I realize even serial winners go through rebuilding cycles and obviously aren’t going to win the title every year or even most years. When I said that, it was shorthand for being in the running most years, ambitious about success, rather than a youth development system or worse, an afterthought for the mothership.

Except we're so clearly not that. The mothership/front office has spent $25 million in transfer fees on this roster over the last nine months. If we're an afterthought, we're not being treated like one.

Yes we have aspirations of selling all those players after 2-3 years, but then they'll come back and sign more guys. There are maybe 10 teams in the world that aren't selling teams. Why wouldn't we be a selling team?

We have been competitive in this league seven of our first nine years. That's an incredible run of success. Most teams would kill for that level of consistency.

 

[KevinJRogers]

Except we're so clearly not that. The mothership/front office has spent $25 million in transfer fees on this roster over the last nine months. If we're an afterthought, we're not being treated like one.

Yes we have aspirations of selling all those players after 2-3 years, but then they'll come back and sign more guys. There are maybe 10 teams in the world that aren't selling teams. Why wouldn't we be a selling team?

We have been competitive in this league seven of our first nine years. That's an incredible run of success. Most teams would kill for that level of consistency.

Not to mention, CFG is writing a big, fat check for our shiny new stadium.

By the way, Sean John just notched his 100th career clean sheet. FC Cincinnati 0-0 Toronto FC in full time.

I know they had a horrible year last year, but Toronto still features a lot of veteran attacking players: Bernardeschi and Insigne, obviously, but they have Laryea and Owusu and a couple other guys who have been around, too. They were pretty good today but didn't score.

 

[Jg65]

On the road records ... only six MLS teams won at least five road games last season.

So 23 of the 29 teams had four wins or fewer on the road. We can talk about how we want to win every game, but it's simply not going to happen in this league. We're going to lose the majority of our road games. I don't really understand why road records are so bad in this league, but they are. C'est la vie.

I get that road games are harder, but considering that likely half the games are road hames they best figure it out. Else this will be another miserable season IMHO

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

I was at a (very good) concert and missed the game live.* Before I started the replay, I expected another "Cushing special" - but I have to say, it looked different to me, regardless of the result.

As others noted, the expected goals must be out of balance due to the "double" attempt on the corner and the penalty kick. Knowing the result, I was surprised at how, on balance, City had more cohesion in the attacking third than Charlotte. Charlotte's best attempts were on a corner and two brain farts by O'Toole. No goals for the good guys, but there were more real efforts to attack overall.

I think Wolf will grow into the league. I believe O'Toole will be fine long term and that last night was a bad game and not the start of a bad run.

Opinions reserved on the two strikers. Hard to gauge anything yet.

The centerbacks and Freese don't cause me agita. Three thumbs up.

Right back, I just don't know. Ilenic seems scared to try anything and Gray still too often kills attacks, (ours and theirs).

NYCFC never win the opening game. Not shocked by the result, but it did not feel like it was hopeless as it did so much of the middle of last year. I'll take that for game 1.


*Does anyone know if there is a setting in Apple TV to hide scores from replays? I went radio silent until this morning to attempt to watch fresh, but it seemed impossible to replay the game without knowing the score.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I get that road games are harder, but considering that likely half the games are road hames they best figure it out. Else this will be another miserable season IMHO

That's my point, though. 23 of the 29 teams in MLS last season won 4 road games or fewer. All we really need to do is average a point/game on the road. Anything more than that is gravy. 1 point/game on the road and 2 points/game at home is enough to have us in the thick of the race.

 

[Marito]

That's my point, though. 23 of the 29 teams in MLS last season won 4 road games or fewer. All we really need to do is average a point/game on the road. Anything more than that is gravy. 1 point/game on the road and 2 points/game at home is enough to have us in the thick of the race.

I was also puzzled by the argument that the turf was difficult to manage for our players. On the one hand there was the visual evidence: there were many instances of them under-hitting the ball, or being surprised by bounces, or by the way the ball was rolling, etc. OTOH, isn't it true that something like 20% or 25% of MLS stadiums have turf? I understand that teams who play on turf at home are more used to it, but it shouldn't exactly be an unprecedented challenge for our players, right? Or is there something I am missing?

 

[ZYanksRule]

I was also puzzled by the argument that the turf was difficult to manage for our players. On the one hand there was the visual evidence: there were many instances of them under-hitting the ball, or being surprised by bounces, or by the way the ball was rolling, etc. OTOH, isn't it true that something like 20% or 25% of MLS stadiums have turf? I understand that teams who play on turf at home are more used to it, but it shouldn't exactly be an unprecedented challenge for our players, right? Or is there something I am missing?

Just Atlanta, Charlotte, New England, Vancouver, Seattle and Portland play on turf. So this season we'll play a total of what, 3 games on turf? Also for the new & international guys, almost none of them have ever played on turf. I do think it's a challenge for a team as heavily international as ours.

 

[KevinJRogers]

Just Atlanta, Charlotte, New England, Vancouver, Seattle and Portland play on turf. So this season we'll play a total of what, 3 games on turf? Also for the new & international guys, almost none of them have ever played on turf. I do think it's a challenge for a team as heavily international as ours.

New turf was installed in Bank of America Stadium, too -- FieldTurf, which is a surface we don't play on too often. Before this year, only Atlanta and the Revs used it in the Eastern Conference. Portland, Seattle and Vancouver play on it in the West.

I got the impression the FieldTurf at Charlotte was slower than New England's or Atlanta's. I don't remember balls just dying in those places the way they did last night. Our guys clearly were having some trouble weighting their passes. First touches weren't great in the first half, either (they got better as the game went along).

 

[moogoo]

*Does anyone know if there is a setting in Apple TV to hide scores from replays? I went radio silent until this morning to attempt to watch fresh, but it seemed impossible to replay the game without knowing the score.

There's a setting in the account settings at the very bottom. The default is to display scores (stupid). You have to do it for every device you use to watch it. Seems like a browser based setting and not an account one for some reason. And for some reason it will turn itself back on. Mine has at least twice.

 

[gbservis]

MLS is mutually exclusive with trying to win every year, even if you define "winning" as just making the playoffs.

Even with 7-9 teams getting in from each conference, RB has the only double digit playoff streak at 14. The next longest is Philadelphia at 6, then Nashville and Orlando at 4. One thing these teams have in common is never winning MLS Cup. RSL has the only 3 year streak. They last won the Cup in 2009.

Every single one of the remaining 24 teams: the Crew, Sounders, Portland, LAFC, Atlanta, everyone, has an active streak of 2 or fewer.
The NYCFC streak of 7 consecutive appearances is tied for 6th best all-time. Four of the five teams with a longer streak were founding members in 1996. The other is Seattle who began MLS play in 2009. The 2 teams tied with streaks of 7 entered in 2005 (Dallas) and 2009 (RSL).

Excluding teams who haven't been in the league 5 years, only RB, Seattle, and LAFC have made the playoffs a higher percentage than NYCFC. LAFC had the advantage of joining the league when it was possible to make the playoffs in Year 1.
Excluding teams who haven't been in the league 5 years, only Seattle has a playoff streak that is longer relative to its time in the league.

We're very spoiled. If we don't make the playoffs this year, that's maybe sliding to mediocrity. As of now, arguably nobody but Seattle has had it better than us.

Except we're so clearly not that. The mothership/front office has spent $25 million in transfer fees on this roster over the last nine months. If we're an afterthought, we're not being treated like one.

Yes we have aspirations of selling all those players after 2-3 years, but then they'll come back and sign more guys. There are maybe 10 teams in the world that aren't selling teams. Why wouldn't we be a selling team?

We have been competitive in this league seven of our first nine years. That's an incredible run of success. Most teams would kill for that level of consistency.

I think the issue with using past success to justify acceptance of the current situation is that we did not build this way for our success. The cup-winning team was a multi-year build that had a balance of veterans, mid-20s additions with experience, and a small number of under-20 players. Looking at the roster year after year I think you could argue we built a foundation of veterans first and then when the team was stable added a few young guys the year of our cup win. Excluding homegrown, loans, a few fringe players that never say meaningful time, and super draft picks this is the year-by-year breakdown of players we acquired 20 years old or younger:

2015 - None
2016 - Mata (20)
2017 - None
2018 - Medina (19)
2019 - Parks (20), Taty (19)
2020 - Acevedo (19)
2021 - Santi (19), Magno (18), T. Andrade (19)
2022 - Pellegrini (20), Pereira (19)
2023 - Illenic (18), Fernandez (18), Bakrar (20)
2024 - Ojeda (19), Jovan (18)

We have signed 10 under 20 players in the last 3.1 seasons after only signing 5 in the first 5 years of the team's existence. Yes, we were spoiled and the organization deserves credit for it but I also think we are entitled to start saying hey this doesn't look anything like what got us to all those successful years.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I think the issue with using past success to justify acceptance of the current situation is that we did not build this way for our success. The cup-winning team was a multi-year build that had a balance of veterans, mid-20s additions with experience, and a small number of under-20 players. Looking at the roster year after year I think you could argue we built a foundation of veterans first and then when the team was stable added a few young guys the year of our cup win. Excluding homegrown, loans, a few fringe players that never say meaningful time, and super draft picks this is the year-by-year breakdown of players we acquired 20 years old or younger:

2015 - None
2016 - Mata (20)
2017 - None
2018 - Medina (19)
2019 - Parks (20), Taty (19)
2020 - Acevedo (19)
2021 - Santi (19), Magno (18), T. Andrade (19)
2022 - Pellegrini (20), Pereira (19)
2023 - Illenic (18), Fernandez (18), Bakrar (20)
2024 - Ojeda (19), Jovan (18)

We have signed 10 under 20 players in the last 3.1 seasons after only signing 5 in the first 5 years of the team's existence. Yes, we were spoiled and the organization deserves credit for it but I also think we are entitled to start saying hey this doesn't look anything like what got us to all those successful years.

I would argue that the league is changing. Guys like Fernandez, Ojeda, and Jovan would never have come into the league in 2019. So you had to build with older players, and players who weren't good enough for Europe and were too old to be worth anything.

We also have a lot of veterans on the team, just not in the attack aside from an injured Maxi Moralez. Sands, Parks, Risa, Martins, Freese are all veterans. Talles and Santi have both been in the league for four years now. Sure, maybe it would be nice to have a Heber in the attack to help mentor the kids, but I would argue that's Maxi's job, even though he's injured.

In order to use all 3 U-22 positions, you have to have a U-22 DP. So in order to maximize the salary cap, you have to have four high-priced U-22 players. Our youth is a function of that's the mechanism within the salary cap to put together the highest-skilled roster.

 

[Joe_Cos]

Does anyone know (not mostly know but know for sure) how the rule works on penalty kicks and the spot? Because the ball was kind of barely on the spot, and my guess is that's enough. I don't think it has to be centered, as almost nothing in the sport works that way (eg corner kicks can go with the ball barely overlapping the circle). But I don't know.

I believe Thiago Martins yellow was for arguing about where the ball was placed.

 

[Kenny]

Wolf looks to be a good signing of the type we could use one or two more of-- mid-20s veteran of European top level leagues to mix in with the youth. I'm watching LA-Miami right now and this Paintsil is another example--I mean it's early to judge but he looks very dangerous and savvy, 26 yo Ghanaian veteran forward from Genk in the Belgian league.

 

[Joe_Cos]

The poor roll and bounce effects of the fake grass were definitely remarked upon during the game.
Yes NYCFC almost never wins Opening Day, and yes that's largely because they never open at home. And 4 of the first 6 games this year are Away. But from 2016-2022 NYCFC earned the most Away points in MLS. Last year they tied for 25th. The team needs to start winning Away again. That doesn't mean a winning record but at least 3-5 more than the 1 Away win they got all of last season.
Re the sub of Gray for Ilenic that drew a lot of eyerolls. I don't think it was tactical. Mitja is 19, listed at 157 pounds, last year he played 90 minutes just 3 times, and the season just started. I'd like to think a professional athlete in a D1 league can always go 90, but my guess is he was just done. Whether it was the physio data, or something the staff saw, I don't know.
Late in the game Bakrar had a nice play when he went down the right side, then did very well to avoid an aggressive tackle while maintaining both balance and possession, and sent a cross into the box. Then it happened almost exactly the same way again a few minutes later and I thought it was a replay but it was live.
NYC had more shots but half as many on target. CLT blocked 4 of our shots and none the other way. When they weren't blocked our players mostly missed. I expected Charlotte to bunker, counter and attack set pieces regardless but the early goal really let them lean into it.

I thought the same, especially in the early going. Charlotte was playing full speed and NYC was still in preseason mode.

I think he was mentally tired, as I think he is the one who passed the ball across the box which Jasson got the handball call on.

 

[Schwallacus]

Has there been a worse miss in NYCFC history than Santi’s point blank shot?

Freese MOTM performance, for both clubs.

It was freezing and windy in the away section. I thankfully wore my winter coat and a hat but was still cold.

Terrible trip.

Rodney Wallace 2 feet in front of an empty RBNJ net even though we were down 1 or 2 men due to red cards but still contending and some may say looked better than RBNJ?

 

[FootyLovin]

If game 1 was an indication that all is lost:
It is because we have 0 DPs who can deliver what Maxi did for us. A true field general.

If game 1 was an indication that this looks better than last year:
It is that we played well despite being on the road on a funky surface with a core of offensive players who are still very much getting to know each other.

Can't wait to revisit in 5 more days.