MLS - March 2 - St. Louis (Away)

[mgarbowski]

More on Away results, because I think they are enormously important.

Half of the last 10 MLS Cup winners finished top 5 in the league for Away points.

When NYC finished top third in the league for Away points they finished 2,2,1,5, and 3 in the Table (5 was 2020 Covid year).
When NYC finished middle third for Away points they finished 3 and 4 in the Table.
When NYC finished bottom third for Away points they finished 10 and 11 in the Table.

Nobody in MLS is really good Away, but land of the blind, one-eye, and all that. Many teams dominate at home every year. Roughly 1/3 get 2.0 PPG at home or more, and about half get 1.8 PPG at home. You separate yourself with Away points.

 

[KevinJRogers]

I cannot think of a non-American young player in the history of the league that has been good enough to earn a chance in Europe that hasn't taken it. Someday if MLS continues to grow it will be as appealing as Europe but we are nowhere close to that. If any of these guys end up as MLS lifers its because they didn't develop and we wildly overpaid for them. 18-year-olds that don't project to be good enough to get a decent offer in Europe someday are not worth anywhere near $8M.

In Jovan's first interview he said he wants MLS to be a launch point for his career. He's already looking for the next move, and there's no reason he shouldn't.

I get both of those points, and of course players want to play in Europe, including American players. That's where the money is. For now. And for the best footballers.

But what if that changes? What if it's already changing? Taty is arguably the best player we've produced, and he's on a little over €2.3 million per year at Lazio. That's not wildly out of the realm of possibility for an MLS team, especially us.

Of course, I have no idea of the league's actual financials. Or our club's. I'm just saying, we may not be grabbing these young players to develop and sell.

And I know, at least in my case, if I had the chance to make the same money and start in MLS or ride the bench in a second, or even first, tier league in Europe, I'll take the cash and start.

 

[JayH]

Just as concerning as the results is what appears to be so much frustration and negative energy from the players. Keaton screaming at Bakrar and Bakrar telling him to f’ off. Santi barking at the coaches. Sands losing his poise. Things like this happen all the time throughout the season. But it’s too early for the signs of dysfunction. I am hoping our first home game is transformative in some way but I am very uneasy about the start.

 

[moogoo]

Just as concerning as the results is what appears to be so much frustration and negative energy from the players. Keaton screaming at Bakrar and Bakrar telling him to f’ off. Santi barking at the coaches. Sands losing his poise. Things like this happen all the time throughout the season. But it’s too early for the signs of dysfunction. I am hoping our first home game is transformative in some way but I am very uneasy about the start.

frustration and dysfunction are sad to see, but at least it's a sign that they still care.

if they just shrugged it off, i'd be more concerned.

when things don't go well, these things happen. even with the best teams/locker rooms. but in most cases, it's water off the back once the game is over. i think it's probably that case with us right now.

we need some things to click and some good things to happen. some belief and leadership. i think we're missing a true general on the field who commands respect. maxi might not be the player we want him to be anymore, but even if he was on the bench, i think it would be beneficial. kinda like how chanot used to coach from the sidelines. it's a damn shame he left.

 

[JayH]

frustration and dysfunction are sad to see, but at least it's a sign that they still care.

if they just shrugged it off, i'd be more concerned.

when things don't go well, these things happen. even with the best teams/locker rooms. but in most cases, it's water off the back once the game is over. i think it's probably that case with us right now.

we need some things to click and some good things to happen. some belief and leadership. i think we're missing a true general on the field who commands respect. maxi might not be the player we want him to be anymore, but even if he was on the bench, i think it would be beneficial. kinda like how chanot used to coach from the sidelines. it's a damn shame he left.

Yes. But seeing it in game 2 is a concern.

 

[mgarbowski]

Keaton screaming at Bakrar and Bakrar telling him to f’ off.

I didn't see this. Do you remember roughly when it was?

 

[JayH]

I didn't see this. Do you remember roughly when it was?

Yes, early ish first half. Typical bad play by Bakrar and KP started screaming at him (may have also thrown his hands in the air) and Bakrar responded with an angry (what appeared to be) F off. The fact that it was so early on was striking to me.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I agree we are overreacting to 2 games, in part because last year was terrible. But your take on Away games is very off.

In 2016 NYC had 10 points after 8 games, of which 6 had been at home. Matt Doyle famously said we wouldn't make the playoffs because we wasted all those home games and couldn't make it up on the road. But in fact NYCFC saved the season by getting 16 points in the next 7 away games (2.29 PPG), and ranked first in MLS for away points that year. From 2015 through 2020 the team ranked higher in Away points than it did Home points every year but 2018. They had the most Away points in the league over that span. It turned in 2021, the year you noted. They won the Cup in spite of that, but NYC has not excelled away since, and it killed them last season. They ranked 15th in Home points in 2023, basically the league median. They ranked 26th in Away points. If they managed the same number of Away points as the team who ranked 15 on Away points, then NYC would have had 47 points total, good for 8th and just 2 off 7th place in the East, instead of 11th.

Regarding 2016, I remember thinking after that poor opening stretch that we seemed to be playing a lot better than in 2015. I had confidence that we'd start getting results and climb up the table. We gutted out a win over Vancouver in a game that felt like - and was - a turning point.

This season I don't feel like that. We still look like crap - if anything we look worse. I know it's only been 2 games, and I know the "eye test" is the easiest way to break Richard Feynman's dictum (the most important thing is not to fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool). Still, the "eye test" has it's place, and by my estimation, we are failing to the point of blindness.