To me, it looked like he was screaming at medhi
MLS - March 2 - St. Louis (Away)
- Thread starter LionNYC
- Start date
And I saw Nick on the edge of the shot pointing to a seat and giving Santi the business in no uncertain terms. Not sure what it was about, but I thought seeing Cushing impose some discipline was a healthy sign. You're really in trouble when the lunatics take control of the asylum.
THIS. Not only did we look panicked and intimidated last night, but we looked clueless as well. No one seemed to know what they were supposed to do out there. Too many guys were standing around watching and not moving, like they didn't know where they were supposed to be.
Is that because they just haven't had enough time, or because there's no coherent system to learn? I'm leaning toward the former. But I could be wrong. Either way, we'll know once we get, say, five games in. And if there is a system but it still hasn't taken hold a third of the way in, we're in some deep doo-doo.
(PS: I'm watching the Manchester Derby right now. I hope the squad is together and doing the same in some backroom somewhere over eggs and coffee.)
I would argue that PV set the foundation for the play style that led to the cup win. The team was overly regimented about our system of only one-touch passes, never carrying the ball, and playing out of the back at all costs but it forced the players to get comfortable playing that way. Every training video it was one touch, you would see the coaches pushing them to be faster and more precise. Every game PV was on the sidelines pushing them to pass quicker. Every press conference after things went wrong from playing on the edge PV defended the players and said the system takes time giving them the space they needed to keep taking risks. The rigidity forced every player on that team to learn to play that way and our ability to pass through pressure got better and better.
Dome inherited a squad with every player comfortable with the passing style and Dome built tactics on top of that foundation.
Ronnie took a team now used to passing and moving at a high level but took the rigidity out of the system just a bit, giving the players the freedom to occasionally carry the ball a bit or play it long when they had to. I think the little extra freedom was invigorating for the players but it doesn't work without the foundation set by PV and Dome.
Maxi, Sands, and Parks are the last holdouts from those eras and they are the only players that still do quick passing instinctually and they do it very rarely now. The players that came from that era dating back to PV had been trained to try to pass their way out of trouble first and then dribble out as a last resort. All the new players try to carry out of trouble, players off the ball don't move to the spots to allow them to pass, and even when we do pass the speed and the precision are gone. It's really sad because the foundation was there it just needed to be continued and we could have maintained a skill and identity that set us apart. Maybe it was too regimented and the players didn't like the lack of freedom but it worked and it was super fun to watch.
that's fine if he replaces it with something, but right now it looks l
Yes. We threw the table over, and now we have a rebuilt roster to mold into shape. A young roster, too. And a new roster. It's going to take some time to teach them how to play the City way.
i wish! i wonder if he would consider it. but the way he left, i'd be surprised if either party reached out. i do remember seeing him being interviewed for other jobs in MLS though...
yes. a new system with new players takes time. but it's not like we have 11 new players. we have a handful of new attackers. everyone else should be well aware of and used to the system by now. so, we should be seeing that with those guys and some mistakes with the new guys. we have NONE OF IT anywhere. it's just chaos and disorganization. like a pickup team just formed to play and nothing more. a team with a return players and a full preseason should not look this unorganized.
I love Dome but I'm not sure he's the right guy either. PV had come from coaching the CFG academy and I think he ran NYCFC the same way he would run an academy tasked with teaching young CFG players to play the CFG way. I'm sure some of the vets didn't like it but who is going to question Patrick Vieira. I don't know if Dome has as much success without 2+ years of the CFG boot camp academy PV ran before Dome arrived.
Given the age of most of our players and the indecisiveness with which many of them play I think we need another academy-type coach to come, install a core system, and drill it over and over again.
My issue is that I don't see any evidence that players are being taught. Put the guys that arrived since the end of last season aside and just look at the players with over 1 year with the team. Santi, Magno, Illenic, none of them pass through the pressure they all try to dribble out of it. Haak and Gray will try to do the quick passing style along with Sands but I'd bet they learned it in the academy as opposed to during their time with Cushing. To be fair to Cushing the downfall started with Ronnie. He won us a cup but the new players that joined under him never learned the system either. Gudi and the handful of other additions that joined during ronnies time all dribbled more than the teammates that came before them. It didn't matter because the vast majority of the roster already had it instilled in them before Ronnie arrived and just played that way instinctivly. I remember guys like Chanot getting annoyed when the new guys didn't get the ball back to them quickly enough.
Only about a third of our current roster was with the team before last season. Only five of our starting XI yesterday were with the squad in 2022 or at some time before. One of the subs joined us late last year, two are brand new, which is important because all three may be projected starters once they're integrated.
Now, none of that is an excuse. I'm simply pointing out we've been in transition for a year and completed it just a couple weeks ago. I don't believe we can honestly judge whether Cushing is developing players when, for the most part, we just got them.
If we still look this utterly clueless five games in, I'll start to get concerned. Ten games in and I'll really start to worry. If we miss the playoffs again, that's all she wrote. But for now, we're just at the start of the learning curve for this squad, and I think it's only fair to say they need a little more time to get to know each other. Maybe we won't carry the ball into traffic so much once everyone has a feel for where everyone else is going to be. Maybe we won't give it away so much when everyone knows where to move in space to provide an outlet.
Right now, we're standing around looking stupid, which is what kids do. And since the guys who have been here don't trust the new guys yet, they're trying to do too much on their own. It's a self-reinforcing mess, and it's not exactly an unheard-of situation when organizations transition from one operational model to another.
I'm happy with the guys we've picked up and the talent is there to compete. The big question is whether Nick is the man to finish the job, or whether he's taken us as far as his ability will allow and it's time for someone else to take over. I can understand the frustration (believe me, no one wants to win now more than I do) but I don't think we can honestly answer that question yet.
This is very true. I was just watching highlights from past seasons both Santi and Magno did play the quick pass and go way back when they were surrounded by other players doing the same. Clearly, no one trusts anyone and given the island, some of our guys got stuck on with the ball last night because no one moved I can't really blame players for just trying to dribble away from pressure as fast as possible.
I'm not sure if these were posted anywhere else, but here's Nick Cushing's postgame presser.
And here is Keaton's.
And here is Keaton's.
We had one SOG all game, and it was that weird play where Wolf and the goalie collided in the first half.
Zero SOG in the 2nd half when trailing the game.
Not sure if he meant it the way it sounded, but I didn’t love how Cushing basically said they created good chances but no goals resulted due to individual errors or lack of quality. Almost like hey my system is working, the players have to play better. He even named names. Wolf missing that big chance, Perea arriving too late, etc.
Also Keaton saying they panicked a bit in the face of the high press and fouling and played right into their hands. Like, I realize maybe for spectators it’s easier said than done to simply say “didn’t you expect that? Why were you not prepared for that?” But… still. Kind of a fair question to ask these professionals.
I don't like how Cushing brags that we had a lot of possession. That's St. Louis's gameplan! They want you to have possession.
So was he not expecting to have possession against St. Louis? He put a midfield together that isn't really a progressive midfield to defend against a team that only counters. It just didn't feel like the lineup and gameplan matched what the opponent was going to give us. And that's where it's starting to feel like Nick is losing the plot.
So was he not expecting to have possession against St. Louis? He put a midfield together that isn't really a progressive midfield to defend against a team that only counters. It just didn't feel like the lineup and gameplan matched what the opponent was going to give us. And that's where it's starting to feel like Nick is losing the plot.
That's definitely one way to see what Cushing said, although personally, I thought he was saying things could have turned out better if we were just a little sharper. I get the feeling he's trying to build confidence while holding players accountable at the same time. It's a tricky dance.
As far as Keaton is concerned, I was glad to see him acknowledge the team's jumpiness. They can't get better if they don't face it and grow from it.
Totally legitimate criticism. In Nick's defense, we did weather the first 20 minutes, and then for the next 10-12 minutes it looked like his plan might work. At least we were competing.
But that was about it, and we were nowhere in the second half until the last five minutes or so.
I have no idea if he built his plan around match fitness or not. Something else to consider. If this game was in May, he might have taken a different approach. But since he didn't say anything about that, we must assume he set it up the way he wanted it.
Any good new jazz clubs opened up in nyc recently?
I have paid barely any attention to St Louis and even I know that their system is based on pressing, turnovers, and not controlling possession. And I’m just a MLS fan! How did they not know this?
I agree. I think they know it, they just didn't care.
On some level, I like not molding the gameplan to the opponent. On the other end, when your gameplan folds so neatly into what your opponent wants you to do, the stubborness hurts you. There needs to be a little more pragmatism.
That's the thing Dome did very well -- he wanted us to build from the back, but in that Derby home game he coached, he decided we'd become a long-ball team. We neutralized RB, then won it late with a Maxi goal in the final minutes. Sometimes you need to be pragmatic. Cushing was stubborn last night, and it cost us.
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