Mls Scheduling Ideas

[Gotham Gator]

As we all know, MLS has many issues when making its schedules. Here are a few.

- too many teams to do full home-away scheduling
- a 6-week playoff commitment that shortens the regular season
- weather issues for northern teams at beginning and end of season
- long international breaks in summer (including Copa America in 2016)
- need to accommodate CCL and US Open Cup games
- lack of balance between the conferences

So, taking all that (and more) into account, what changes would you make to the MLS schedule? How would you set it up?

 

[Gotham Gator]

The first thing I would like to see is a longer season.

The Premier League goes for 9 months plus 1 week - 42 weeks to play 38 games, and they take off every international break. MLS goes for 34 weeks to play 34 games, plus another 6 weeks for the playoffs. Still, even with the playoffs our season is 2 weeks shorter than the Premier League.

I'd like it if MLS could start a month or more earlier than it does now. Begin the season 6 weeks earlier in late January. Play games in the south and on the Pacific coast for the first few weeks. Then, balance that with more games in snowier locales in the summer, which has the added benefit of keeping games out of hotter locations at that time of year. Play 36 games in 39 weeks. Then start the 6 week playoffs one week earlier than now and end with the MLS Cup on Thanksgiving weekend.

 

[Gene]

There is a method to the madness when it comes to schedule making and if MLS is remotely close in their thinking to MLB, then they don't want that type of unbalanced schedule where a team has a lot of home/away matches front/back loaded depending on whether or not they're a warm/cold climate team.

 

[joe]

I put on my coat for the first time this week and found one of the infamous April song sheets.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

The playoffs could be done WAY quicker than now. The time between games is ridiculous. The regular season ended in October, It is now December, and the two teams left in it have played 5 games so far.

I'd schedule playoff games every five days and have the finals on a recognized day, like saturday after Thanksgiving. Also, get rid of byes during the season, and schedule more midweek games to get more games in. There is way too much down time in the season

 

[sbrylski]

My major issue is with the playoffs. Teams fight all year long just to get potentially one single playoff game? As mentioned, if we are going to play a shortish regular season, we gotta do playoffs right.

As the size of the league grows, conferences will become even more insular, and playoffs and their format will become even more integral to the league.

I'm a big proponent of adding a group stage to facilitate more interconference games in the postseason. Mixed groups with teams from each conference will allow better conferences to push thru more teams, and provide an even more exciting and engaging set of games for fans of all teams in the group.

A group stage would only add one game to the playoffs if it replaces the first two-leg round. Alternatively, the league could move to all single-leg rounds and keep the playoffs the same length as they are currently.

The long term resolution would be to have 32 teams in four conferences of eight. Four postseason groups of four, with one team from each conference. Eight teams advance to the knockout rounds, either two- or single-leg (eight or six game postseason, respectively), with a single game for the MLS Cup Final.

 

[mgarbowski]

34 games is not short by international standards. Bundesliga plays 34 with no playoffs. And the European leagues that play 38 also have no playoffs. I honestly don't know about Latin America.
I enjoy the games and certainly would not mind some more, but I'm not sure it could be justified on the grounds that it is currently short compared to others. I also like the ideas to make the first round a 2-game set so every team gets at least 2 games including one at home, and shortening the space between games during the playoffs to 5 or so. Maybe they could be spaced out a bit as well instead of the marathons we had in early rounds. The group stage idea is also intriguing.

 

[Fantazma]

My major issue is with the playoffs. Teams fight all year long just to get potentially one single playoff game? As mentioned, if we are going to play a shortish regular season, we gotta do playoffs right.

As the size of the league grows, conferences will become even more insular, and playoffs and their format will become even more integral to the league.

I'm a big proponent of adding a group stage to facilitate more interconference games in the postseason. Mixed groups with teams from each conference will allow better conferences to push thru more teams, and provide an even more exciting and engaging set of games for fans of all teams in the group.

A group stage would only add one game to the playoffs if it replaces the first two-leg round. Alternatively, the league could move to all single-leg rounds and keep the playoffs the same length as they are currently.

The long term resolution would be to have 32 teams in four conferences of eight. Four postseason groups of four, with one team from each conference. Eight teams advance to the knockout rounds, either two- or single-leg (eight or six game postseason, respectively), with a single game for the MLS Cup Final.

i never liked group stages in post season, some places keep the points and move onto next stage, others that dont and start from scratch basically say hey most points? great now it goes to the trash as we are starting something new. granted playoffs how it is now is the same mentality but at least its the win or go home mentality you lose in wild card you go home. honestly i see group stages as tooo long for me, especially if the last two dates have "meaningless games".

Currently yes one game seems little but keep in mind the better two teams from each conference get a bye, so they are being rewarded, those others are what they are: wildcard teams not the best record, therefore you have to earn your way to get in.

i do agree with others saying the playoffs last way too long. just do the wednesday/ sunday thing and thats it no need to wait a whole freaking week. though i do think during the season the "byes" happen because of the FIFA international dates ( not necessarily tournaments just the fifa dates in March and September for example).

 

[sbrylski]

34 games is not short by international standards. Bundesliga plays 34 with no playoffs. And the European leagues that play 38 also have no playoffs. I honestly don't know about Latin America.
I enjoy the games and certainly would not mind some more, but I'm not sure it could be justified on the grounds that it is currently short compared to others. I also like the ideas to make the first round a 2-game set so every team gets at least 2 games including one at home, and shortening the space between games during the playoffs to 5 or so. Maybe they could be spaced out a bit as well instead of the marathons we had in early rounds. The group stage idea is also intriguing.

You're right, I was mainly just riffing of the earlier post. But there are a ton of other reasons for a group stage and a six-plus round playoff. That said, I'm 100% in agreement that over a week between postseason games is unacceptable. Six games shouldn't take more than four weeks to play. I can understand breaking for international dates, but it should be scheduled to avoid that if at all possible.

 

[FredMertz]

How about earlier start times when it's still freezing outside? Why play a game at 5:30pm on a March Sunday when you can do it at 1?

 

[FootyLovin]

end with the MLS Cup on Thanksgiving weekend

While I like this I think the problem might be international play. There is a break in mid November. That leaves MLS the following options.

(A) schedule conference finals for Sat/Sun before Thanksgiving and Tue/Wed before Thanksgiving followed by MLS Cup weekend after Thanksgiving. I think the problem here is that that mid week game which should be a huge rating game will get very little viewership.

(B) Split conference finals with first half before international break and second half 2 weeks later after the international break. Let's not even bother pointing out how awful that would be.

(C) Get through the conference finals before international break and only play MLS Cup after break. I think this sucks too. The Superbowl can get away with a two week break. I don't think MLS can. Too much lost momentum. And this would put MLS Cup on the weekend before Thanksgiving. That's not the best rating weekend (I don't think).

(D) Get through the playoffs and MLS Cup before the November break. That can be done with a weekend/mid-week schedule. But weekend games get higher ratings. I don't think MLS wants to give that up. Not when they are still fighting for bigger TV contracts.

(E) Status quo. Hate to say it, but I think this makes the most sense. Highest TV ratings. Manages momentum. Honors international players. We'll all just have to bundle up when we play MLS Cup at YS next December.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

From playoff thread.

This is getting off topic, but I agree that we aren't going to see a balanced schedule. Still, I would like to see a longer season. The Premier League goes for 9 months plus 1 week - 42 weeks to play 38 games. We go for 34 weeks to play 34 games, plus another 6 weeks for the playoffs. One thing people don't focus on with our playoff system is that it robs us of regular season games. Still, even with the playoffs our season is 2 weeks shorter than the Premier League. I'd like it if we could start a month or more earlier. Begin the season 6 weeks earlier in late January. Play more games in the south and the Pacific coast. Then, make that up with more games in snowier locales in the summer. Play 36 games in 39 weeks. Then have the 6 week playoffs end with the MLS Cup on Thanksgiving weekend.

I like this idea. But I would go a step further and condense the playoffs. Really test the clubs and go to a Weekday/Weekend tie. Start games at 9 on the east coast or 7-7:30 on the west coast during the week. That would get you through the playoffs in a month, a duration that I, as a person of reasonable prudence and judgment (mostly, at least when sober), arbitrarily deem a reasonable length of time.

ETA: And now, as I have read the thread, realize that my post is excess to requirements.

 

[mgarbowski]

In terms of starting the season in February, here are the clear warm climate city options to host games:
Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Jose.

Note that all but one are in the Western conference.
If you want to stretch here are 3 more with their average daily low temperature for February and average snow accumulation for February.
Washington DC 28º 4.8", Portland 36º 2", Seattle 37º 2".
Washington is very iffy and still only gets us to 2 Eastern Conference hosts.

When Atlanta enters the league it gives one more East option, with average daily lows of 37º and 0.4 inches of snow.

That is 9 by my count, which is not enough to play a full slate of games. The East/West split makes it even harder. The bottom line is if MLS is going to play in February it is going to play in very cold and perhaps snowy conditions.

 

[mgarbowski]

For comparison, Manchester's average daily lows for both January and February are 36º, despite being at a latitude roughly even with Newfoundland and Labrador Provinces in Canada. Average snow is 3.3". Which definitely puts the US Northwest in play, but still leaves Washington DC as an outlier.

 

[FootyLovin]

Let's work backwards.

If we want an unbroken playoffs we need to finish before the November international break. This year that break was as follows:

U23 - 11/11-15
MNT - 11/13-17

That means this year MLS Cup would have played 11/8. If you played mid-week games, you could have the following:
Conf Finals - first leg 10/28, second leg 11/1
Conf Semis - first leg 10/21, second leg 10/25
Knockout Round - 10/18
Last day of season - 10/11

This year's last day of the season was 10/25. That means we lose 2 weeks. We've also reduced our weekend games by 3 weeks which is no small cash concern for the league.

To get that back we would need to start the season by the first or second weekend in February. As was pointed out above, that's some cold weather to play soccer in (not to mention standing in the bleachers).

 

[Gene]

In terms of starting the season in February, here are the clear warm climate city options to host games:
Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Jose.

Note that all but one are in the Western conference.
If you want to stretch here are 3 more with their average daily low temperature for February and average snow accumulation for February.
Washington DC 28º 4.8", Portland 36º 2", Seattle 37º 2".
Washington is very iffy and still only gets us to 2 Eastern Conference hosts.

When Atlanta enters the league it gives one more East option, with average daily lows of 37º and 0.4 inches of snow.

That is 9 by my count, which is not enough to play a full slate of games. The East/West split makes it even harder. The bottom line is if MLS is going to play in February it is going to play in very cold and perhaps snowy conditions.

You could also add Vancouver to the list since they play in an indoor stadium and if I'm correct the Impact plays some of their early season matches at Montreal's Olympic Stadium which is also domed. So plausibly, if MLS wanted to go with that sort of schedule they could get away with it.

But as I somewhat half-assedly made reference to in my post above, more than likely the league isn't interested in playing a somewhat unbalanced schedule where teams have home/away matches front/back loaded depending on whether or not they're are warm/cold weather clubs.

 

[Gotham Gator]

In terms of starting the season in February, here are the clear warm climate city options to host games:
Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Jose.

Note that all but one are in the Western conference.
If you want to stretch here are 3 more with their average daily low temperature for February and average snow accumulation for February.
Washington DC 28º 4.8", Portland 36º 2", Seattle 37º 2".
Washington is very iffy and still only gets us to 2 Eastern Conference hosts.

When Atlanta enters the league it gives one more East option, with average daily lows of 37º and 0.4 inches of snow.

That is 9 by my count, which is not enough to play a full slate of games. The East/West split makes it even harder. The bottom line is if MLS is going to play in February it is going to play in very cold and perhaps snowy conditions.

That's good research.

When considering this, I figured the best February/early March options were San Jose, LA Galaxy, Dallas, Houston and Orlando, with Atlanta being added in 2017 and potentially Miami, San Antonio or Sacramento after that. Also very viable would be Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland. Less ideal, but perhaps usable on a more limited basis would be Salt Lake City, Colorado and DC. You would also have some communities where there is a nearby domed stadium that could be used for a big home opener - e.g. Montreal and, in 2017, Minnesota.

In short, I think it is doable. The biggest obstacle is the lack of conference balance, which I admit I hadn't fully considered.

 

[sbrylski]

Let's work backwards.

If we want an unbroken playoffs we need to finish before the November international break. This year that break was as follows:

U23 - 11/11-15
MNT - 11/13-17

That means this year MLS Cup would have played 11/8. If you played mid-week games, you could have the following:
Conf Finals - first leg 10/28, second leg 11/1
Conf Semis - first leg 10/21, second leg 10/25
Knockout Round - 10/18
Last day of season - 10/11

This year's last day of the season was 10/25. That means we lose 2 weeks. We've also reduced our weekend games by 3 weeks which is no small cash concern for the league.

To get that back we would need to start the season by the first or second weekend in February. As was pointed out above, that's some cold weather to play soccer in (not to mention standing in the bleachers).

For my preferred group stage format, I would schedule the three group stage match days before the break, and then the three knockout stage match days after the break (Either four teams playing a two-leg semifinal, or eight teams playing single game quarters and semis). Play the MLS Cup in a fair weather neutral site (assuming the game grows enough for a neutral site to be viable).

 

[FootyLovin]

For my preferred group stage format, I would schedule the three group stage match days before the break, and then the three knockout stage match days after the break (Either four teams playing a two-leg semifinal, or eight teams playing single game quarters and semis). Play the MLS Cup in a fair weather neutral site (assuming the game grows enough for a neutral site to be viable).

I like this. Though I agree with the comment somewhere back there that the group stage does nothing to reward better records during the year. It puts everyone on equal footing once group play begins. I think that does too much to water down the value of finishing with a better record.

 

[Ulrich]

Let's work backwards.

If we want an unbroken playoffs we need to finish before the November international break. This year that break was as follows:

U23 - 11/11-15
MNT - 11/13-17

That means this year MLS Cup would have played 11/8. If you played mid-week games, you could have the following:
Conf Finals - first leg 10/28, second leg 11/1
Conf Semis - first leg 10/21, second leg 10/25
Knockout Round - 10/18
Last day of season - 10/11

This year's last day of the season was 10/25. That means we lose 2 weeks. We've also reduced our weekend games by 3 weeks which is no small cash concern for the league.

To get that back we would need to start the season by the first or second weekend in February. As was pointed out above, that's some cold weather to play soccer in (not to mention standing in the bleachers).

Bruce Arena recommended a Boxing Day style format to get 2 games in over a weekend which would free up an international date that MLS doesn't close down for:

We should have a Boxing day-style setup, and I'm going to ask the league to consider this: next year, play July 1, which is a Friday, and play July 4. Everyone in the league plays on those two dates. The setup should be home and away so you don't get two home dates. And keep it regional.