Questions From A Man City Fan

[MrE]

Hi Guys

I am a life long Man City from a family of Man City mad supporters. Aged 47, so cannot remember our glory days of the sixties, and have pretty much grown up with the bad times, the typical city times and have learned along the way that City do not always get it there own way. With so many false dawns I am used to being wrong.

One or two of you may have been on the Bluemoon forum and seen that I have posted quite a few comments questioning how this forum has been ran. I am fully expecting to be banned immediately as some of the views regarding this forum I have aired have been controversial to say the least.

However I come in peace and having read a little more of the forum and watched it grow this week, I understand your aims but I still do not understand some things. In one post on the BM forum I claimed that some of you needed educating (in the football sense) but I am open to the fact that you could educate me.

Perhaps my views did / do not allow for cultural differences. I understand how you want New York City to become its own entity with its own identity and actually despite the way some of my BM posts read do support you in that. One or two (not so much the last few days I grant you) have been quite disparaging about the MCFC / City Group connection and that is what I initially took offence to. Having taken years of abuse from other fans about Citys "joke" status in the english leagues (even before the premier league era) and the 20 + years of abuse from United fans who in the ultimate insult declared City not worthy of big local rival status and moved that (dubious honour) to Liverpool (believe me it wasn't the case before the EPL and the "new fans". I have become very defensive of City and will take up the debate with anyone.

I post this in the warzone, because I think its the right place for debate and to ask questions.

These questions are for American citizens who follow football but have no direct connection (emigration / parents are immigrants etc) and are to help me understand the MLS supporter points of view.

It doesnt matter if you can only honestly answer one of the questions it might help me understand your viewpoint

1. What brought "soccer" into your life / to your attention (World Cup, NASL, etc) ?
2. IF you support and EPL side (or league side) (or European side) why did you choose that team?
3. I understand you want your own identity etc, and this is controversial but I would appreciate sensible answers. (AND AIMED AT THOSE WITHOUT DIRECT TIES TO THE CHOSEN CLUB ANDTHAT HAVE SPOKEN AGAINST THE CFG CONNECTION) Why did you choose to get on board with the project when prior to its start you were aware of the CFG connection (whichever way its put this cannot be denied) and choose to try to distance yourself from it. (what I want to try to understand is, I wouldn't support a Man United Project of any kind, I have even got rid of products because of the sponsorship of Utd (eg. vodaphone). I am not accusing but I can't get past some kind of sabotage of the project (probably my own issue)

I am sure I will have loads more questions from your replies (thank you in advance) but I promise to keep an open mind. Above all I am not questioning your support of NYCFC.

 

[BlueWolf]

"I have even got rid of products because of the sponsorship of Utd (eg. vodaphone)"

LOL I refused to buy a Sharp TV and went with Toshiba instead.

 

[CP_Scouse]

1) since i entered high school, i had to take a physical education class. Last year there was a semester dedicated to soccer. around that time, NBC made a deal with the EPL to start showing games. so i saw advertisements on bus stops and that kinda got me on also.

2) i support LFC because ive been to liverpool. its a brilliant city and i intend to either go to uni there or live there. simply put.

3)i dont really understand the third question

 

[MrE]

Re Third question
Its aimed at those (Natural Americans) who support another team abroad... Why have they chosen NYCFC and tried to distance or deny the MCFC / CFG ties ?

 

[MrE]

For clarification the third question is only aimed at those that have posted against the group.

 

[MrE]

"I have even got rid of products because of the sponsorship of Utd (eg. vodaphone)"

LOL I refused to buy a Sharp TV and went with Toshiba instead.

I actually replaced an existing Sharpe stereo lol

 

[CP_Scouse]

Oooohh. I hav no problem with international ties to manc

 

[BlueWolf]

I actually replaced an existing Sharpe stereo lol

Unfortunately I am forced to use DHL as I live in Germany now, and that seems to be the main parcel carrier here, sadly (sorry, I am not purposefully trying to derail this thread).

 

[Capt.Tsubasa]

1.) I kicked a ball around when I was a kid. My fascination grew with more exposure to the game. Special honorable mentions gotta go out to the fictional yet ever awesome name sake of my screen name, Captain Tsubasa. But also some real life chaps, like El Fenomeno Ronaldo, Roberto Baggio the Magic Mullet, that rowdy Paul Gascoigne, or Mario Basler the King of Cool from Germany.
2.) I don't follow EPL as much as La Liga or Bundesliga, but I kinda grew quite fond of Arsenal, due to their style of play, their youngster approach and their financial prudency.
3.) It's NYC's team! Who cares which rich kid owns them?!

 

[BxLio91]

1) My parents are African and I grew up in West Africa, (little country called Benin right to the left of Nigeria). Football is the #1 sport there. I've been playing since I could walk and like many other kids, dreamed of playing professionally.
I had an offer to join an academy at 11 when I got a little older but I ended up moving to NYC the next year so that never happened. My mother was against me leaving anyway. Only child. When I got here there weren't any viable options for me to continue developing as a player and play competitively. I did play on my high school team but we were terrible .

2) I'm a huge Real Madrid fan because I was a fan of Zidane. When he went there from Juve, I started following the team. I follow Chelesea in the epl because I was a fan of Drogba back when he played in Guingamp then Marseille. Then he went to Chelsea and being West African, I was partial to all the ones at Stamford Bridge.

3)The only team around was the metrostars and they played in New Jersey. I lived with my mother and she couldn't afford for me to go watch games in jersey so I never became a fan of them.
I left the country for a year and when I came back, my friend told me that MCFC and the Yankees got together to create NYCFC. So I did some research and found out they would be playing in Yankee Stadium and that playing in the city and representing NYC was a major part of the whole thing. This meant that I could finally support a team that played in my city especially since I live in the Bronx about 30 mins away from YS and am a Yankees fan.

For one, us being an identical clone makes us soulless like a cheap imitation because we don't have your history, we didn't go through the things lifelong fans of MCFC have been through. From the heartbreak to finally being the team sitting on the throne. It takes away from the MCFC brand IN MY OPINION which is why companies sue for copyright infringement when things are too similar to them. Granted we're all under CFG.

The major reason for us not wanting to be a cheap clone is that just the same as anyone, we're proud of our city and for a team to represent NYC, having it be an exact copy of MCFC doesn't feel authentic. And it definitely won't build a strong fan base in NYC if New Yorkers don't feel like the team is representing them. The thought would be why should I, a New Yorker root for a team that has my city's name in it but that's representing the city of Manchester?

The fact is because MLS is a recent league and not as established as the epl, most soccer fans in NYC are fans of epl clubs. Americans like winners which is why the majority of fans support the big clubs. MCFC's rise to the top is fairly recent so they did get their fair share of band wagoners. As it is the same in England I assume, fans of other clubs are upset that there's a new successful guy who's on top right now. Like I said before, for NYCFC to succeed you need as many epl fans as possible. They will gravitate to NYCFC if they feel like it represents them as New Yorkers. Expecting them to become MCFC fans automatically is unrealistic. The fact that SOME (NOT ALL) MCFC fans started antagonizing people for not abandoning their previous epl affiliations is exactly why a lot of people are still not trusting this project. Because they believe they'll be directly supporting MCFC as opposed to a New York team.

You should read up on the MLS club called Chivas USA. They're a carbon copy of the Mexican team Chivas and that greatly reduced their appeal to non Chivas fans. They're a failure and the joke of MLS. Those of us who chose to be a part of the NYCFC project have to constantly take shit from rival fans about our club being a cheap clone of MCFC and they highlight the fact that other epl club fans shouldn't support a MCFC clone. They've reduced the amount of support this club could have and we're the ones actually dealing with this crap defending this club against those claims. How do we look if we're saying they're wrong but the very thing they're saying is happening?
Again for NYCFC to be successful in NYC, we need to show that we're a NYC team first and foremost. You need the locals. I don't think Sheikh Mansour would have had your support if he took your Manchester identity from you and made you a clone of some other place. This is why I don't understand why any MCFC fan would have an issue with us wanting to be New York.

If NYCFC makes New Yorkers feel like it's a New York team, it will be successful and develop a strong fan base. If that happens, CFG only looks better. And if CFG looks better, MCFC and all their other clubs in the family look better. It's that simple.

I didn't realize the question was for those who are "against" the CFG connection and I had already typed a novel which I try to avoid at all cost so dammit you're getting my answers .
No one here is against CFG. The problem is that we don't want to be an identical clone to MCFC which the majority of you guys understand. The issue is that there are a few who attack us for not wanting to be a clone which makes no sense to me.

 

[MrE]

1) My parents are African and I grew up in West Africa, (little country called Benin right to the left of Nigeria). Football is the #1 sport there. I've been playing since I could walk and like many other kids, dreamed of playing professionally.
I had an offer to join an academy at 11 when I got a little older but I ended up moving to NYC the next year so that never happened. My mother was against me leaving anyway. Only child. When I got here there weren't any viable options for me to continue developing as a player and play competitively. I did play on my high school team but we were terrible .

2) I'm a huge Real Madrid fan because I was a fan of Zidane. When he went there from Juve, I started following the team. I follow Chelesea in the epl because I was a fan of Drogba back when he played in Guingamp then Marseille. Then he went to Chelsea and being West African, I was partial to all the ones at Stamford Bridge.

3)The only team around was the metrostars and they played in New Jersey. I lived with my mother and she couldn't afford for me to go watch games in jersey so I never became a fan of them.
I left the country for a year and when I came back, my friend told me that MCFC and the Yankees got together to create NYCFC. So I did some research and found out they would be playing in Yankee Stadium and that playing in the city and representing NYC was a major part of the whole thing. This meant that I could finally support a team that played in my city especially since I live in the Bronx about 30 mins away from YS and am a Yankees fan.

For one, us being an identical clone makes us soulless like a cheap imitation because we don't have your history, we didn't go through the things lifelong fans of MCFC have been through. From the heartbreak to finally being the team sitting on the throne. It takes away from the MCFC brand IN MY OPINION which is why companies sue for copyright infringement when things are too similar to them. Granted we're all under CFG.

The major reason for us not wanting to be a cheap clone is that just the same as anyone, we're proud of our city and for a team to represent NYC, having it be an exact copy of MCFC doesn't feel authentic. And it definitely won't build a strong fan base in NYC if New Yorkers don't feel like the team is representing them. The thought would be why should I, a New Yorker root for a team that has my city's name in it but that's representing the city of Manchester?

The fact is because MLS is a recent league and not as established as the epl, most soccer fans in NYC are fans of epl clubs. Americans like winners which is why the majority of fans support the big clubs. MCFC's rise to the top is fairly recent so they did get their fair share of band wagoners. As it is the same in England I assume, fans of other clubs are upset that there's a new successful guy who's on top right now. Like I said before, for NYCFC to succeed you need as many epl fans as possible. They will gravitate to NYCFC if they feel like it represents them as New Yorkers. Expecting them to become MCFC fans automatically is unrealistic. The fact that SOME (NOT ALL) MCFC fans started antagonizing people for not abandoning their previous epl affiliations is exactly why a lot of people are still not trusting this project. Because they believe they'll be directly supporting MCFC as opposed to a New York team.

You should read up on the MLS club called Chivas USA. They're a carbon copy of the Mexican team Chivas and that greatly reduced their appeal to non Chivas fans. They're a failure and the joke of MLS. Those of us who chose to be a part of the NYCFC project have to constantly take shit from rival fans about our club being a cheap clone of MCFC and they highlight the fact that other epl club fans shouldn't support a MCFC clone. They've reduced the amount of support this club could have and we're the ones actually dealing with this crap defending this club against those claims. How do we look if we're saying they're wrong but the very thing they're saying is happening?
Again for NYCFC to be successful in NYC, we need to show that we're a NYC team first and foremost. You need the locals. I don't think Sheikh Mansour would have had your support if he took your Manchester identity from you and made you a clone of some other place. This is why I don't understand why any MCFC fan would have an issue with us wanting to be New York.

If NYCFC makes New Yorkers feel like it's a New York team, it will be successful and develop a strong fan base. If that happens, CFG only looks better. And if CFG looks better, MCFC and all their other clubs in the family look better. It's that simple.

I didn't realize the question was for those who are "against" the CFG connection and I had already typed a novel which I try to avoid at all cost so dammit you're getting my answers .
No one here is against CFG. The problem is that we don't want to be an identical clone to MCFC which the majority of you guys understand. The problem is that there are a few who attack us for not wanting to be a clone which makes no sense to me.

Thank you for your Novel. It was insightful and you speak a lot of sense.

I knew about Chivas and no one wants to repeat that scenario. So I do welcome fans of other teams that want a local team and encourage you to have your identity.

I am trying to understand why anyone would think it makes sense to go to a Local Team and then attack the foundations. We agree we don't want a complete clone, but the foundations are what the team is built on and IN MY OPINION if you don't like or agree with something you don't go there anyway ?

Why try to encourage that of (it seems like) any other team but City either. I do like some suggestions (I could see Bridge over Troubled Water working) but for instance (lets not go down the clone debate) I have seen it suggested on here that you could (not will) adopt "You'll never walk alone" as an anthem. To me that is a Liverpool song. Its there anthem, just like you will not get an identity by copying city, you will have a long way to go to make that of another team your anthem, and if you do you will possibly offend other group members who actually want you to succeed. Yes I am City first, but I will come to NY to see you and watch on TV whenever I can, but I could never join in with a footballing rendition of that song.

 

[BToto920]

1. I played soccer as a kid, but only really watched it during the World Cup and I cheered for USA.
2. I used to work for Deutsche Bank and we had an exchange program set up so people from our London office could come over and work in NY for a year or two. I met a few dudes through that process and they were all United fans. I started watching the games with them and they turned me into a fan. Since then, NBC picked up the EPL broadcast contract and I am now able to watch all of their matches. Hence, my fandom for them has grown.
3. I am born and raised in NY and now currently live in the city. The Red Bulls (formerly The Metrostars) never played within the city limits. They always played out in New Jersey although they called themselves New York. They never advertised and they never tried to reach out to people of the city. When MLStoQueens was launched, I was fully onboard because I wanted to bring a domestic club to my city. Once that failed and City Football Group came in to grab the 20th MLS squad, I had a big internal conflict. Since I was a United fan, I didn't want to align myself to anything MCFC, but at the same time how could I not root for the first true club my own city?? I made peace with the decision that I would support my city regardless of the ownership. Ownership groups change all of the time. I do not think that the Yankee fan who was a Liverpool fan stopped being a Liverpool fan when the Red Sox ownership group bought that team. The 2 squads, MCFC and NYCFC, are two separate teams in two entirely different leagues on two entirely different continents. The fanbase here for NYCFC will be a melting pot of people just like the city itself. You will have fans of all types of different domestic and national teams. I want to embrace that and use it to create our culture. I am grateful that CFG stepped up to purchase the franchise, but at the same time, I do not want to sing Blue Moon and I do not want to have the club be a clone of MCFC. I would also think that MCFC fans wouldn't want a clone either. I would think they would want to maintain their own culture because it is theirs and it is their history, not someone else's.

I hope this answers your questions.

 

[BxLio91]

I personally believe you'll never walk alone is a ridiculous suggestion because if we're saying no to copying city, we sure as hell won't be taking a song that is so blatantly Liverpool.
Also I don't think anyone here hates the foundation, it's more like a knee jerk reaction. Kind of like how you may say some shit you don't necessarily mean in the heat of an argument.

 

[MrE]

1. I played soccer as a kid, but only really watched it during the World Cup and I cheered for USA.
2. I used to work for Deutsche Bank and we had an exchange program set up so people from our London office could come over and work in NY for a year or two. I met a few dudes through that process and they were all United fans. I started watching the games with them and they turned me into a fan. Since then, NBC picked up the EPL broadcast contract and I am now able to watch all of their matches. Hence, my fandom for them has grown.
3. I am born and raised in NY and now currently live in the city. The Red Bulls (formerly The Metrostars) never played within the city limits. They always played out in New Jersey although they called themselves New York. They never advertised and they never tried to reach out to people of the city. When MLStoQueens was launched, I was fully onboard because I wanted to bring a domestic club to my city. Once that failed and City Football Group came in to grab the 20th MLS squad, I had a big internal conflict. Since I was a United fan, I didn't want to align myself to anything MCFC, but at the same time how could I not root for the first true club my own city?? I made peace with the decision that I would support my city regardless of the ownership. Ownership groups change all of the time. I do not think that the Yankee fan who was a Liverpool fan stopped being a Liverpool fan when the Red Sox ownership group bought that team. The 2 squads, MCFC and NYCFC, are two separate teams in two entirely different leagues on two entirely different continents. The fanbase here for NYCFC will be a melting pot of people just like the city itself. You will have fans of all types of different domestic and national teams. I want to embrace that and use it to create our culture. I am grateful that CFG stepped up to purchase the franchise, but at the same time, I do not want to sing Blue Moon and I do not want to have the club be a clone of MCFC. I would also think that MCFC fans wouldn't want a clone either. I would think they would want to maintain their own culture because it is theirs and it is their history, not someone else's.

I hope this answers your questions.

I see a lot of this "Never played within the City Limits".... Does anyone realize its the same in Manchester, and United do NOT play within the City limits. In fact I do believe deep down they only use the name Manchester because it is a big (British Standards) nearby City, and who has heard of Salford.... Its all a marketing ploy

 

[BxLio91]

I see a lot of this "Never played within the City Limits".... Does anyone realize its the same in Manchester, and United do NOT play within the City limits. In fact I do believe deep down they only use the name Manchester because it is a big (British Standards) nearby City, and who has heard of Salford.... Its all a marketing ploy

To an outsider it may not be the same, but for someone from the actual city involved IT FUCKING MATTERS. That's exactly why many of us don't like the red bulls. See there's similarities in there. We should look at those instead of what divides us. We're part of the same family

 

[CP_Scouse]

See there's similarities in there. We should look at those instead of what divides us. We're part of the same family

 

[MrE]

To an outsider it may not be the same, but for someone from the actual city involved IT FUCKING MATTERS. That's exactly why many of us don't like the red bulls. See there's similarities in there. We should look at those instead of what divides us. We're part of the same family

Theres that cross over of society again.... It MATTERS TO US AS WELL.... I was trying to say I understood how you feel....

 

[MikeDatTiger]

Hi Guys

I am a life long Man City from a family of Man City mad supporters. Aged 47, so cannot remember our glory days of the sixties, and have pretty much grown up with the bad times, the typical city times and have learned along the way that City do not always get it there own way. With so many false dawns I am used to being wrong.

One or two of you may have been on the Bluemoon forum and seen that I have posted quite a few comments questioning how this forum has been ran. I am fully expecting to be banned immediately as some of the views regarding this forum I have aired have been controversial to say the least.

However I come in peace and having read a little more of the forum and watched it grow this week, I understand your aims but I still do not understand some things. In one post on the BM forum I claimed that some of you needed educating (in the football sense) but I am open to the fact that you could educate me.

Perhaps my views did / do not allow for cultural differences. I understand how you want New York City to become its own entity with its own identity and actually despite the way some of my BM posts read do support you in that. One or two (not so much the last few days I grant you) have been quite disparaging about the MCFC / City Group connection and that is what I initially took offence to. Having taken years of abuse from other fans about Citys "joke" status in the english leagues (even before the premier league era) and the 20 + years of abuse from United fans who in the ultimate insult declared City not worthy of big local rival status and moved that (dubious honour) to Liverpool (believe me it wasn't the case before the EPL and the "new fans". I have become very defensive of City and will take up the debate with anyone.

I post this in the warzone, because I think its the right place for debate and to ask questions.

These questions are for American citizens who follow football but have no direct connection (emigration / parents are immigrants etc) and are to help me understand the MLS supporter points of view.

It doesnt matter if you can only honestly answer one of the questions it might help me understand your viewpoint

1. What brought "soccer" into your life / to your attention (World Cup, NASL, etc) ?
2. IF you support and EPL side (or league side) (or European side) why did you choose that team?
3. I understand you want your own identity etc, and this is controversial but I would appreciate sensible answers. (AND AIMED AT THOSE WITHOUT DIRECT TIES TO THE CHOSEN CLUB ANDTHAT HAVE SPOKEN AGAINST THE CFG CONNECTION) Why did you choose to get on board with the project when prior to its start you were aware of the CFG connection (whichever way its put this cannot be denied) and choose to try to distance yourself from it. (what I want to try to understand is, I wouldn't support a Man United Project of any kind, I have even got rid of products because of the sponsorship of Utd (eg. vodaphone). I am not accusing but I can't get past some kind of sabotage of the project (probably my own issue)

I am sure I will have loads more questions from your replies (thank you in advance) but I promise to keep an open mind. Above all I am not questioning your support of NYCFC.

1. The World Cup. Donovan and Wambach's goals in the Men and Women's World Cup and the incredible matches during those World Cups got me hooked.
2. I support MCFC. I picked MCFC because I decided I wanted to start following a Premier League team to get a better sense of European soccer and how it worked, since I didn't know what a Champions League was. So I read a preview which described the history of all the teams. Man City was described as a club with a losing history but that was on the rise and now a contender (this was before the 2011-2012 season). My American football club, the New Orleans Saints had a similar history and so I decided to follow them. That season City won, and I've stuck with the Citizens since.
3. I don't think since I'm a City fan, I'm qualified to answer

 

[BxLio91]

I commend you M MrE for engaging us in a respectful manner. We might not agree 100% but if we discuss things in a respectful manner we can at least get an understanding of each other's opinions without resorting to petty insults or condescending comments. This topic is a perfect example of that. I truly hope there's more civil conversations like this one in the future.

 

[MrE]

I commend you M MrE for engaging us in a respectful manner. We might not agree 100% but if we discuss things in a respectful manner we can at least get an understanding of each other's opinions without resorting to petty insults or condescending comments. This topic is a perfect example of that. I truly hope there's more civil conversations like this one in the future.

thank you