Stadium Discussion

[mgarbowski]

This is the area I was thinking of. Highlighted portion is 10 acres. Requires acquiring property but so will most locations. You're getting into 2 or 3 commercial parcels, from the satellite view. You could also backfill part of the creek which could reduce the need to acquire land.

As another option, if they can get cooperation from MTA (might require Amtrak as well), and can bear the additional building cost of going over the railyard, the previously mentioned Sunnyside yard idea is another good one. Remember building over a railyard was the original idea for the Jets West Side stadium as well.

That area you identified is extremely busy. I go into that little side street under the bridge monthly because a nano-brewery called Transmitter Brewing is located around the corner from the TNT USA marking on your map. Trucks come in and out of that cul-de-sac constantly. It is extremely heavily used. The parking spots under the bridge are filled weekdays and weekends. Point is, to get that land you would have to convince at least one and maybe more than one business that are heavily invested there to move. I don't see it happening.

 

[Statler]

Honestly, though, I'm not looking at a plat map. Just East of that spot is the large plot with the fresh direct warehouse. Might be able to get the space you u need from just that parcel. Regardless, everywhere is busy. Without being cfg and having the ability to call up property owners and throw out a number, who knows what's possible.

 

[mgarbowski]

Honestly, though, I'm not looking at a plat map. Just East of that spot is the large plot with the fresh direct warehouse. Might be able to get the space you u need from just that parcel. Regardless, everywhere is busy. Without being cfg and having the ability to call up property owners and throw out a number, who knows what's possible.

Yes, but there are places with willing sellers. Paying to meet people's reserve price (the price that will get them to sell when they weren't planning on it) is crazy expensive. Yes our owners are flush, but realistically I don't see it. Great location is other ways.

 

[Statler]

I need to hear more about these willing sellers. Tomorrow's another day in the office, and I'll need more locations to scout on Google maps if I'm going to avoid actual work.

 

[northernburbs]

i dont think you would be allowed to fill part of the creek but you could build over part of it

sorry this was to be a reply to @Statler post

 

[mgarbowski]

I need to hear more about these willing sellers. Tomorrow's another day in the office, and I'll need more locations to scout on Google maps if I'm going to avoid actual work.

It's not like there's a list floating publicly. We know from someone here that they sought RFPs, received some, and rejected at least the one that the poster here was involved with.
It's conceivable that every RFP was rejected, that every location with a willing seller was deemed unsuitable, and they will have to move on to parcels that are not currently for sale. But there's no reason to jump to that conclusion either.

 

[Buckley]

lets get this thread back on topic lads

 

[Kjbert]

I disagree. Just about every serious study has shown that sports teams shift entertainment spending, but do not create it. Combine that with huge tax incentives when stadiums are publicly financed and you have a net positive to let a team go or not get bent over to bring them in.

But ONLY if they municipality gets bent over, which so many of them have been willing to do in the past. The trend is going against that, which I think is a good thing.

Tell that to the concession workers, parking attendants and security guards at the Prudential Center when the New Jersey Nets moved to Brooklyn. They lost 41 nights of employment in one fell swoop.

 

[Kjbert]

I wouldn't expect much of a parking requirement to be part of the equation

Disagree. If it's built near Citi Field let's say - you absolutely need parking. Someone on here mentioned that the public transportation system is built on a hub and spoke. That's true. If those of us coming from Westchester, Fairfield and Southern Long Island wanted to attend a game in Flushing, currently we can drive and park there.

Unless they play in Manhattan, parking is absolutely vital. Almost no one drives to a game at Madison Square Garden. But people drive to Yankee Stadium and Citi Field

 

[sbrylski]

Tell that to the concession workers, parking attendants and security guards at the Prudential Center when the New Jersey Nets moved to Brooklyn. They lost 41 nights of employment in one fell swoop.

This is called frictional unemployment, and provides no insight on overall unemployment. Those workers that lost their jobs will start a new employment search, while others who have been searching will quickly be hired by other businesses in the area who make more money now that money previously spent on Nets tickets is available again.

 

[Kjbert]

This is called frictional unemployment, and provides no insight on overall unemployment. Those workers that lost their jobs will start a new employment search, while others who have been searching will quickly be hired by other businesses in the area who make more money now that money previously spent on Nets tickets is available again.

It's Newark. There's not a hell of a lot of new employment going around. It's not like these folks are out pounding the pavement with a CPA certification or MBA in their hand.

 

[Statler]

It's not like there's a list floating publicly.

That doesn't help my procrastination effort at all.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

It's Newark. There's not a hell of a lot of new employment going around. It's not like these folks are out pounding the pavement with a CPA certification or MBA in their hand.

On the other hand, these jobs were VERY part time.

 

[Manuel]

It's Newark. There's not a hell of a lot of new employment going around. It's not like these folks are out pounding the pavement with a CPA certification or MBA in their hand.

If they had those qualifications they wouldn't have been working those jobs in the first place. A little perspective might be in order, 41 nights of employment for a few hundred people is probably not worth the millions of dollars in subsidies from the govt. that could have kept the Nets in Newark. That money could be used in other ways that could benefit the community more.

 

[Kjbert]

If they had those qualifications they wouldn't have been working those jobs in the first place. A little perspective might be in order, 41 nights of employment for a few hundred people is probably not worth the millions of dollars in subsidies from the govt. that could have kept the Nets in Newark. That money could be used in other ways that could benefit the community more.

Question is this - are those people working now? How many of them found new jobs to make up for those 41 games?

When ANY business leaves, not just pro sports franchises, people lose jobs. Why do you think there was such an uproar about Boeing wanting to move their factories out of Washington and into South Carolina?

Why do you think people in Illinois hate Scott Walker so much? Because he incentivized business to leave Chicago and the suburbs and move across state lines. Pennsylvania does it to New Jersey, and so on.

 

[Manuel]

Question is this - are those people working now? How many of them found new jobs to make up for those 41 games?

When ANY business leaves, not just pro sports franchises, people lose jobs. Why do you think there was such an uproar about Boeing wanting to move their factories out of Washington and into South Carolina?

Why do you think people in Illinois hate Scott Walker so much? Because he incentivized business to leave Chicago and the suburbs and move across state lines. Pennsylvania does it to New Jersey, and so on.

This is an interesting conversation and I would really like to continue. I don't think we disagree in big picture terms but could debate the minutiae interminably. I'll buy you a beer one day and we can have that conversation, but it probably in not appropriate in a stadium news thread.

 

[sbrylski]

As a native Wisconsinite, I'm checking out of this thread at the mention of Scott Walker.

 

[FredMertz]

Tell that to the concession workers, parking attendants and security guards at the Prudential Center when the New Jersey Nets moved to Brooklyn. They lost 41 nights of employment in one fell swoop.

41 part-time jobs does not justify hundreds of millions of dollars of tax breaks. You can reduce anything to the negative impact on individuals, but that's not a compelling economic argument.

 

[NYC Football Fan]

Has there been any thought about L.I.C. along Newtown Creek near the Pulaski bridge, say along Borden?

1) great little neighborhood is within walking distance...Vernon/Jackson, with good bars and restaurants.

2) the area south of LIE is separated from the neighborhood by the highway, providing some protection for local residents. Plus, south of LIE is an industrial area a la Willets Point, which makes it more politically palatable, and probably easier to negotiate property acquisition.

3) Existing highway infrastructure: Easily accessible off the L.I.E. with a little exchange work to get an on/off ramp onto Borden Ave around 21st St. Central from all directions...from Bx & points north via RFK or Whitestone to GCP to BQE; from Brooklyn/SI via BQE; from Manhattan right out of the midtown tunnel or 59th St bridge; from East Queens/LI you can take the 495.

4) Great mass transit accessibility as-is. Metro North to GCS and your 1 or 2 stops on the 7 train. Bronx or Manhattan, east side or west side lines take you to the 7, and again, you're right there. Brooklyn G train gets you walking distance. LIRR goes right to Hunterspoint or LIC terminal.

No other location save Manhattan is as mass transit friendly for people coming from all directions. It is way better for mass transit purposes than the Bronx, which is a full trip into city center and then back out of city center, for anyone coming from queens/bklyn/LI (which is about half the population). Bronx works great for mass transit if you're in the Bronx, Manhattan, or Westchester, but not otherwise.

While I don't think they will wind up building a stadium in NYC, I completely overlooked this area. Next to building something in Manhattan, LIC is the next best thing. The area south of the LIE by 21 street would be the spot. It's walking distance to the 7 train, which is only 2 stops away from Grand Central Station that connects to a bunch of subway lines and all Metro North lines. When the 7 line extension is complete it will also connect to subway lines on the west side of Manhattan. This area would also be close to the G line, which serves Greenpoint and Williamsburg and a lot of other neighborhoods in Brooklyn. You also have the Hunterspoint LIRR station, which connects to almost every LIRR line via transfer at Jamaica. In addition, it would be right off the first exit into Queens via the Midtown tunnel.

Very much a pipe dream, but it would be the best spot in the city to build a stadium.

 

[Statler]

...it would be the best spot in the city to build a stadium.

I like the way you think.

As mgarbowski laid out, it's the land acquisition that will be the tricky part (well, that and the LIE exchanges, which will be very close to the Midtown toll booths), but that's going to be true with any desirable location. There are not going to be any large vacant parcels near city center.

The stadium and its location will make or break the value of the franchise, and I'd imagine they will be willing to front a lot of cash for the right location, if CFG is truly in this for the long haul.