Stadium Discussion
- Thread starter Gene
- Start date
FWIW, one can already walk across the 125th St bridge which puts you right at the Willets St bridge. They also want to put a ferry stop at ferry terminal on Randalls to the proposed new ferry stop in front of the stadium.
And just so everyone knows, it took 10 years from concept to completion.
Other than saving
adam bridge tolls, I'm not sure there's a compelling reason to open that can of worms. There's very little parking on that part of the island.
Just to be clear, your theory is that someone on NYCFC's team prepping for the RFP in advance of its release is the party who leaked the RFEI? Because the alternate reading of your post, that ESD itself leaked one proposal but not the other, would be some next-level drama.
Here's my highly speculative narrative based on what we've seen so far:
- March 2017: ESD closes the RFEI process, but even after extending the deadline a month they've only got two proposals: a stadium (NYCFC, Related, Somerset) and a big residential project (L+M, Omni).
- March 2017–April 2018: Instead of hurrying along to the RFP stage ESD sits around, I don't know, playing with their Fantasy MLS projections or something.
- April 4: Brookfield buys Somerset's adjacent project (https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/04/...nder-to-the-owner-of-a-massive-bronx-project/).
- April 17: Brookfield, who would now be by far the biggest outside beneficiary if the stadium deal won (and would prefer that project to a residential competitor), plants the YIMBY story. (https://newyorkyimby.com/2018/04/ex...-million-harlem-river-yards-mega-project.html)
- The weird piece of evidence here is that YIMBY is apparently oblivious to the fact that Somerset sold 101 Lincoln/2401 3rd to Brookfield. Anybody close enough to the project to be able to leak the RFEI would know about this (and honestly any decent real estate blog should have too). So maybe Brookfield declined to mention the sale to keep its name out of the story? They could easily have gotten the RFEI docs from Somerset while doing that deal—or even, it turns out, through a simple FOIL request.
- April 17: NYCFC's public response to the YIMBY story is, "Old news, nothing to see here, we're looking at multiple sites." They don't want to piss off ESD or get fans' hopes up. (Maybe the leak helps them if it kicks the RFP process into gear, but the risk of planting it themselves—or even being seen as having done so—seems too high to be worth it.)
- April 17–present: The whole soccer world gets all excited about the stadium graphics. Suddenly the public is invested in the timeline of this particular development, which had previously been connected to NYCFC only in one vague paragraph buried in an old NYT story.
- April 17: Reporters start bugging ESD about the RFEI. Neil De Mause publishes NYCFC's proposal (http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2018/...in-subsidies-isnt-even-a-formal-proposal-yet/). The post is hostile, but the document itself is flashy and designed for public consumption. So far things are looking pretty good for NYCFC and really good for Brookfield.
- April 18: L+M gets worried that all the attention to the stadium might tilt the RFP in NYCFC's favor, so they hand over their RFEI proposal to a bigger real estate pub, Crain's (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/articl...lestate&utm_campaign=cnyb-realestate-20180418). Maybe the hope is that this gives De Mause types an alternative to the stadium to rally around.
- April 19: I don't know, anybody got anything juicy this morning? I'm thinking reporters are still catching up with this story (Das in particular seemed annoyed about the YIMBY post) and we'll probably get some interesting followup over the next week.
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Doesn't even have a name...truss bridge as part of the Hell Gate Complex...maybe rename NYCFC Rail Bridge and run a commuter line to the stadium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Gate_Bridge
That's a walk that looks much more reasonable on a map than it is in real life.
Oh, I'm totally aware of that. Unless someone is dedicated to the cause, I don't see how parking at Randall's is a solution for a whole lot of people (unless you can park right in front of the ferry terminal).
There is barely enough parking on Randall's Island for the people using Randall's Island.
No, I don't think NYCFC had anything to do with the info getting out to the public because that isn't consistent with anything I have seen them do before and it doesn't help achieve the goal of building a stadium as much as keeping the proposal under the radar helps . I think the original source was someone who knows someone at EDC who is actually putting together the RFP now, not an NYCFC rep who will be putting together proposal that will be submitted in response to the RFP after it comes out.
dummyrun
canchon Do you really think my post this morning was more important than deciding whether to start Zlatan on my fantasy team this weekend?
dummyrun canchon Do you really think my post this morning was more important than deciding whether to start Zlatan on my fantasy team this weekend?
I have some experience helping design an RFP for a municipality looking to have municipal land developed to provide an economic boost to downtown. 8 figure project, not 9 or 10 like this one so its a whole different level. My take is that folks see the railyard occupying prime waterfront property. The railyard serves a vital public function and can't be moved. A few non-contiguous acres could be shaved off the parcel that aren't needed for the railyard, but nothing transformative for the area can be built on those pieces. The RFEI is prepared to see if there are viable proposals to construct a significant transformative project on and above the railyard footprint. The Muni opines which of the RFEI submissions is the best and designs the RFP to be both facially neutral and designed to pick the favored proposal. For instance, if I wanted the stadium and not a proposal that was exclusively housing I would set the minimum number of housing units at levels the stadium proposal can easily meet and also justify the desire to bring tourists to the area. I know the exclusively housing proposal won't score well or at all on the tourism point while the stadium proposal will get a high score on that point and design the RFP in a way that's both slanted to what the muni thinks is the best proposal(hopefully stadium) and is neutral and objective and can be defended through solid reasoning and evidence if there is a challenge.
My theory is that folks are working on the RFP and the RFP preparation process was the avenue through which it leaked to the real estate development blog. That's a guess based on where it was first reported.
Thanks toFredMertz for taking an unpopular position on the forum. My first reaction to public funding for sports stadiums is always negative too, but I really like the concept at this site because of the way it adds value to the railyard footprint. Building on top of the railyard is not going to happen if the lease acquisition costs are too high because the extra cost of putting a project on a platform above the railyard wont justify both.
So do you think the delay in the RFP is more favorable to NYCFC?
I'm not Sabo, but I would assume so. A lot has changed over the past year.
- Somerset now has a bigger partner on their other development
- Related is even closer to finishing Hudson Yards (I don't think this should be overlooked as there ability and experience building over railyards lowers the risk of the project)
- L+M was awarded the Bronx Point development - do they have financing/personnel to pull off both
- The developments in this area have had a harder than expected time (in comparision to what was expected in winter '17) getting financing
- The state removed the Belmont overhang
Having the RFP drafted correctly and well is much more important than the speed of issuance of the RFP. I assume the RFP is going to be issued soon and that is why the information got out, but the publicity has a chance to cause more delay if politicos get nervous and (more involved).
Bottom line opinion/guess: The delay in the issuance of the RFP hopefully means the process is being prepared pr operly, but I am nervous now that there is public attention that the process could become less favorable to an NYCFC stadium.
Which probably explains why NYCFC haven't really said anything about the leaked proposal?
Theoretically, the Soccer Prep School would use the fields there - 1000 students need a lot of fields, and while it’s as short of a bus route as is probably possible in NYC to the island, a walking bridge makes more sense.
The park would want everything to do with NYCFC. As a whole, the NYC Park’s Dept has very little money for upkeep. The large, public parks like Central Park and Prospect Park have amazing upkeep because of private foundations set up for that purpose. Affluent neighborhoods may also have set up orgs to looks after their areas. But as a whole, the fringe parks get little. That’s why in the past there’s been a push by the city to have the rich orgs donate a percentage to the general fund. It’s not out of the realm of possibility for CFG to create a parks foundation to not only help Randall’s Island, but also the general fund of the forgotten parks. A mutually beneficial relationship.I hate to be a
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Exactly. Do it for the kids. I’ll just reap the benefits and Park right next to field 9 with Schwallacus.
Oh, I agree 100% that they would want everything to do with NYCFC -- I meant they'd want nothing to do with us! Throngs of tailgaters. I've been out of the city for a while, but I remember the parks always being pretty strict with booze and open flames.
Not that it really matters, but the landscape architect, MPFP PLLC, is the architect for the development project Randall's is currently doing.
They literally put icons for Food, Bathrooms & Picnic Tables on their map.
