Stadium Discussion

[413Blue]

Because they got priced out of Soho years ago, a neighborhood specifically designed for artists that had its zoning protections removed by the well-connect affluent class that wanted the lofts for themselves.

The trope of “why artists, why not me,” is outdated and kinda uninformed. Art is a representation of current culture and a historical record of the times. Take away the places for actors, artists, musicians and writers to live affordability, and the city will lose its soul. Even the non-cultured fly-over states folk come to NYC to take in Broadway & off-broadway shows, hit up the museums and see concerts. They’d aren’t coming here to experience business incubators.

And to keep this on topic.... having an artists enclave near the stadium (if both end up being at Willets Point) wouldn’t be bad, especially if the proximity led to interest in the club - they could be a hell of a group adding to support of the club if interested and personally invested. We were stoked about Blue Man Group being at the derby - three off-broadway actors in their stage costumes. Also, it’s not as if the Third Rail has developed many original songs, and while some Tifo has been quite pleasing, it hasn’t had a killer originality or skill to it.

What about service workers? Visitors need them in restaurants and hotels. Police, they struggle financially living in the city. Stadium concession and security?

Might as well regulate all housing, so all lower wage professions can get in it. More and more regulation on housing has done wonders for the city over the years.

 

[413Blue]

Thanks for writing this. I felt a little bad about posting a tweet that resulted in a pile-in against artists or the arts in general. I think there is a massive amount of non-market value in art (and in sport for that matter), so embracing non-market means to adequately price the means of production (like living) of a non-market good doesn't apriori raise any red flags for me.

Nobody piled in against artists. They piled in on that idiotic tweet which suggested the city dedicate very valuable and scarce resources to benefit a small subset of a subset of the population based on a rather discriminatory idea.

The City needs to do so much to give artists and others a chance to survive in the city. Unfortunately, most policy implemented over the last generation has only intensified the crisis and the city just keeps doubling down on the same failed policy.

 

[Ulrich]

What about service workers? Visitors need them in restaurants and hotels. Police, they struggle financially living in the city. Stadium concession and security?

Might as well regulate all housing, so all lower wage professions can get in it. More and more regulation on housing has done wonders for the city over the years.

No question service workers aren’t vital to the city, they are, and guess what - a vast majority of artists have second jobs as service workers. The big difference between artists and other lower wage “professions” is that artists by nature are working out of their home, hence the need for the artists loft, or at least space suitable to the production of art whether layout for fine art or the congregation of musicians, etc. “Regular” low income/affordable housing doesn’t serve the needs of a live/work space.

Sympathy for police is misplaced - they are unionized city workers with salary structures that quickly rise with longevity and guaranteed pensions after what, 20 years, or is it less? I believe regular city workers get a pension after 8-12 years, or something pretty low.

As to “more and more regulation of housing” - you’re grossly misinformed. Deregulation of housing in NYC has taken place non-stop since the early 90’s and has forced the low wage professionals to the fringes of the city. By no means am I a bleeding heart advocate for endless affordable housing, but the last 30 years has seen the systematic removal of many protections for the less fortunate and re-zoning of areas specifically for the creation of luxury housing for the very affluent. Your argument, which essentially translates to why protect one group and not all, is disingenuous because the all or nothing approach is never achievable and always destined to fail, society doesn’t like mass change - it’s the “if we can’t help everybody then we shouldn’t help anybody” argument.

 

[SoupInNYC]

No question service workers aren’t vital to the city, they are, and guess what - a vast majority of artists have second jobs as service workers. The big difference between artists and other lower wage “professions” is that artists by nature are working out of their home, hence the need for the artists loft, or at least space suitable to the production of art whether layout for fine art or the congregation of musicians, etc. “Regular” low income/affordable housing doesn’t serve the needs of a live/work space.

This is a valid point regarding space they need. I feel like some sort of WeWork for artists should be available.

Sympathy for police is misplaced - they are unionized city workers with salary structures that quickly rise with longevity and guaranteed pensions after what, 20 years, or is it less? I believe regular city workers get a pension after 8-12 years, or something pretty low.

But pensions don't help current police except for the future financial security. They can take loans off their pensions, but other than that, it isn't available until they retire.

As to “more and more regulation of housing” - you’re grossly misinformed. Deregulation of housing in NYC has taken place non-stop since the early 90’s and has forced the low wage professionals to the fringes of the city. By no means am I a bleeding heart advocate for endless affordable housing, but the last 30 years has seen the systematic removal of many protections for the less fortunate and re-zoning of areas specifically for the creation of luxury housing for the very affluent. Your argument, which essentially translates to why protect one group and not all, is disingenuous because the all or nothing approach is never achievable and always destined to fail, society doesn’t like mass change - it’s the “if we can’t help everybody then we shouldn’t help anybody” argument.

I don't think there is much of an argument here against affordable housing. Just affordable housing for certain professions. That leads to quite a slippery slope.

 

[LeeNYCFC]

Because they got priced out of Soho years ago, a neighborhood specifically designed for artists that had its zoning protections removed by the well-connect affluent class that wanted the lofts for themselves.

The trope of “why artists, why not me,” is outdated and kinda uninformed. Art is a representation of current culture and a historical record of the times. Take away the places for actors, artists, musicians and writers to live affordability, and the city will lose its soul. Even the non-cultured fly-over states folk come to NYC to take in Broadway & off-broadway shows, hit up the museums and see concerts. They’d aren’t coming here to experience business incubators.

And to keep this on topic.... having an artists enclave near the stadium (if both end up being at Willets Point) wouldn’t be bad, especially if the proximity led to interest in the club - they could be a hell of a group adding to support of the club if interested and personally invested. We were stoked about Blue Man Group being at the derby - three off-broadway actors in their stage costumes. Also, it’s not as if the Third Rail has developed many original songs, and while some Tifo has been quite pleasing, it hasn’t had a killer originality or skill to it.

Just a little attempt at a Seinfeldism. I have zero issue with it, just didn’t see what would be specifically desirable about WP.

 

[DeGrozz]

Because they got priced out of Soho years ago, a neighborhood specifically designed for artists that had its zoning protections removed by the well-connect affluent class that wanted the lofts for themselves.

The trope of “why artists, why not me,” is outdated and kinda uninformed. Art is a representation of current culture and a historical record of the times. Take away the places for actors, artists, musicians and writers to live affordability, and the city will lose its soul. Even the non-cultured fly-over states folk come to NYC to take in Broadway & off-broadway shows, hit up the museums and see concerts. They’d aren’t coming here to experience business incubators.

And to keep this on topic.... having an artists enclave near the stadium (if both end up being at Willets Point) wouldn’t be bad, especially if the proximity led to interest in the club - they could be a hell of a group adding to support of the club if interested and personally invested. We were stoked about Blue Man Group being at the derby - three off-broadway actors in their stage costumes. Also, it’s not as if the Third Rail has developed many original songs, and while some Tifo has been quite pleasing, it hasn’t had a killer originality or skill to it.

Great post. I didn't really get why someone could rationally want affordable housing for artists, but this helped. Not saying I agree with it, but I appreciate the perspective.

 

[dummyrun]

Already been discussed earlier in the thread. We figured it would have to be brought in pieces by truck and re-assembled. Ulrich had all the logistics figured out.

"I venture to suggest this solution to the ancient problem: The Library is unlimited and cyclical. If an eternal traveler were to cross it in any direction, after centuries he would see that the same volumes were repeated in the same disorder (which, thus repeated, would be an order: the Order)."

 

[Joe_Cos]

Same. I suspect mailing list issues. I've tried to work with Fan Services on two separate occasions without any luck.

There is definitely something wrong with their mailing list. I am still waiting to receive my email about the 2019 season pricing. But don't worry I get every other useless email from the team.

The only reason I knew about the prices and the opt out dates was from the forum. I called my ticket rep about it and they said they would look into and that was the 16th and still nothing.

 

[Ulrich]

Just a little attempt at a Seinfeldism. I have zero issue with it, just didn’t see what would be specifically desirable about WP.

Only that it’s open space for Development. I don’t think being at the outer edges of the city by the airport is desirable by any stretch, but they’ve already lost Soho and all of the former artist-parlor apartments that dotted the UES and UWS (the ones that had double-height sunken living rooms that afforded space for large canvases) because of coop-conversions last century.

 

[Ulrich]

This is a valid point regarding space they need. I feel like some sort of WeWork for artists should be available.


But pensions don't help current police except for the future financial security. They can take loans off their pensions, but other than that, it isn't available until they retire.

WeWork artists is a great idea.

Police have financial security through their union. Full stop - it’s damn powerful and it’s members do fine, so blame the same union for their wage structure of being so low at the beginning of a career before rising up to very comfortable levels - they negotiated that and no sympathy should be given for the way they structured their seniority and paying dues to get there. They also never have to worry about where their next pay check is coming from. It really is apples/oranges compared to artists. Now if teachers were being compared, that’s another story, and I’d be the first to get behind “housing for teachers” for many reasons.

 

[Kjbert]

Lol. I’m yet to be invited to fuck all. Which is one of the reasons I provided for cancelling.

No offense to you, but I know what you pay, I know what I pay. I pay more. Or I did. Until they shit on me. Twice. Not to mention, I was a day 1 depositor.

The disrespect I’ve suffered as a consumer, not as a supporter or any of that shit, but as a consumer, is enough that I would boycott any traditional retailer who acted similarly

If football was a business, they would all be out of business.

 

[FredMertz]

Lol. I’m yet to be invited to fuck all. Which is one of the reasons I provided for cancelling.

No offense to you, but I know what you pay, I know what I pay. I pay more. Or I did. Until they shit on me. Twice. Not to mention, I was a day 1 depositor.

The disrespect I’ve suffered as a consumer, not as a supporter or any of that shit, but as a consumer, is enough that I would boycott any traditional retailer who acted similarly

There are two core groups of profitable ticket buyers: the diehards and the premium seat buyers.

The intersection of those two is very small, but they are the best customers a team has. They're spending $$$ that are not dependent on how the team is doing, how a company is doing or how the economy is doing.

I have my differences with Midas (my being funny is one of them), but losing a customer like him over relatively little things that could have been avoided with a little attention is criminal negligence.

 

[LionNYC]

There are two core groups of profitable ticket buyers: the diehards and the premium seat buyers.

The intersection of those two is very small, but they are the best customers a team has. They're spending $$$ that are not dependent on how the team is doing, how a company is doing or how the economy is doing.

I have my differences with Midas (my being funny is one of them), but losing a customer like him over relatively little things that could have been avoided with a little attention is criminal negligence.

And most of those premium premium seats are held by businesses or used for business purposes so the passion for the team isn't really true, it's just about the experience. Same thing for all other NY sports. Do you the owners of Legends seats at Yankee games really love the Yankees so much to spend 50K per seat per season? No, it's just good for business.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

There are two core groups of profitable ticket buyers: the diehards and the premium seat buyers.

The intersection of those two is very small, but they are the best customers a team has. They're spending $$$ that are not dependent on how the team is doing, how a company is doing or how the economy is doing.

I have my differences with Midas (my being funny is one of them), but losing a customer like him over relatively little things that could have been avoided with a little attention is criminal negligence.

Well, I’m pathetic enough I’ll still keep some tickets. I’m just cutting my bill by 60%.

 

[mgarbowski]

I emailed Doug Bennett about the discrepancy between the email invite for Sept 11, and the RSVP and confirmation which say Sept 12. He said he will try to find out but the entire focus group operation is being run by CFG. Make of that what you will in terms of tea leaves.

 

[mgarbowski]

Just found out from a friend who has a 5-game package that he was invited to a focus group. I know some STHs will be disappointed about this, but it makes sense. If you're conducting a true focus group, you want all constituencies represented.

 

[adam]

Just found out from a friend who has a 5-game package that he was invited to a focus group. I know some STHs will be disappointed about this, but it makes sense. If you're conducting a true focus group, you want all constituencies represented.

They also probably want me as far away as possible. Makes sense why I'm on #teamnoinvite.

 

[Fabio]

https://www.hudsonriverblue.com/201...focus-group-regarding-soccer-specific-stadium

 

[NickA]

 

[SoupInNYC]

What is this just ended up being a skit for Impractical Jokers. That would be so hilarious, and also really suck.