Stadium Discussion

[Kjbert]

This may be the last straw for me. I can’t be the only one that has a renewed sense of optimism.

If there was such a thing as Blue Balls for a soccer stadium, then were all in absolute agony.

 

[adam]

A few things to keep in mind - most people already know most of this, but it's good context.

NYCFC was very close on this site before. In 2013, there were plans to build a stadium there, with a size reported to be 25,000 - 30,000 - the NY Post said 28,000. So, the work has been done to figure out whether we can build there and how large. The NY Times reported that 153rd street would close and that the exit ramp off the Degan would have to be moved.

The street where Rupert Plaza Garage exits is at the end of 153rd, but it is technically 157th street. My guess is that it would not have to be closed.

Further, you will see on some maps that "157th Street" runs in between the parking garage and Heritage Field Park. In reality, that is where 157th Street used to be, but now it is just a walkway. I would imagine that any Stadium project would involve expanding that a bit into a larger pedestrian plaza. Next to it is a part of Heritage Field Park that is now just underused green space and walkways. It could presumably be used to expand a plaza area, although that would doubtless be controversial.

The train station is an impediment, but there are ways to make it work. The tracks and platforms are already very low, and it should be easy to at least have an upper deck fly some distance out over the tracks, assuming the MTA will agree.

The bridge that runs from the train station to Heritage Field Park is just to get pedestrians over the GAL factory and parking lot. If our Stadium is there, it wouldn't be necessary, as you could have pedestrians exit onto whatever plaza takes the place of that parking lot.

The iconic bat that used to sit near the main entrance to the old Yankee Stadium now sits at the exit to that pedestrian bridge. Preserving that might be a challenge.

https://nypost.com/2013/12/10/bronx-scores-400m-soccer-stadium/

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/...al-would-give-the-yankees-a-new-neighbor.html

I know through hearsay that they commissioned someone to do a study of the best angle for the field to be for that site, based on the sun like 5 years ago. Now I'm surmising; that probably also had to do with figuring out if the way they wanted to fit the stadium in that lot would create unwanted glare, or make it hard for the grass to get the light it needs. In conclusion, If they made it to a sun study, I agree they've done their due diligence well past the point we’re at now trying to figure out how the traffic will function.

 

[Kjbert]

I know through hearsay that they commissioned someone to do a study of the best angle for the field to be for that site, based on the sun like 5 years ago. Now I'm surmising; that probably also had to do with figuring out if the way they wanted to fit the stadium in that lot would create unwanted glare, or make it hard for the grass to get the light it needs. In conclusion, If they made it to a sun study, I agree they've done their due diligence well past the point we’re at now trying to figure out how the traffic will function.

What sun?

 

[The Toe]

I know through hearsay that they commissioned someone to do a study of the best angle for the field to be for that site, based on the sun like 5 years ago. Now I'm surmising; that probably also had to do with figuring out if the way they wanted to fit the stadium in that lot would create unwanted glare, or make it hard for the grass to get the light it needs. In conclusion, If they made it to a sun study, I agree they've done their due diligence well past the point we’re at now trying to figure out how the traffic will function.

The last thing we want is what DCU had to endure with the sun. Audi Field was rushed a little to open, I hope we have time to get everything right. And at least we have a temporary home we're used to get to that point

 

[Fantazma]

The last thing we want is what DCU had to endure with the sun. Audi Field was rushed a little to open, I hope we have time to get everything right. And at least we have a temporary home we're used to get to that point

a little? id say a lot. there was a reporter hit by a steel beam on opening day.

 

[Gotham Gator]

The last thing we want is what DCU had to endure with the sun. Audi Field was rushed a little to open, I hope we have time to get everything right. And at least we have a temporary home we're used to get to that point

What was the issue with the sun?

 

[Jon]

What was the issue with the sun?

I think if you're on the east side of the field, opposite the camera, the sun is directly in your eyes.

Never mind...

 

[mgarbowski]

I know through hearsay that they commissioned someone to do a study of the best angle for the field to be for that site, based on the sun like 5 years ago. Now I'm surmising; that probably also had to do with figuring out if the way they wanted to fit the stadium in that lot would create unwanted glare, or make it hard for the grass to get the light it needs. In conclusion, If they made it to a sun study, I agree they've done their due diligence well past the point we’re at now trying to figure out how the traffic will function.

I'm surprised that site even has any flexibility to angle the field.

 

[Kjbert]

Isn’t that because they have an open air stadium?

My understanding is that they want a Mini Etihad here.

 

[sundance]

I think if you're on the east side of the field, opposite the camera, the sun is directly in your eyes.

Not quite—the camera is on the East side, so there is glare in the broadcast for games near sunset.


http://astro.unl.edu/2019/04/sun-glare-at-audi-field.html

Earlier this year physics undergraduate Brandon Harper began working with ESPN to solve a sun glare problem occurring at the new Audi Field in Washington D.C. During the broadcast of a soccer game last fall, a distracting glare due to the October sunset greatly interfered with the viewing of the game. The goal of the project was to determine when and if the sun could cause more problems like this during future games for the cameras located on the east side of the stadium. From photo and video evidence, the glare last October 13 lasted from about 5:00pm to 6:10pm when the sun finally set below the stadium walls with respect to the cameras. The glare was at its worse at around 5:50pm. The azimuthal and altitudinal coordinates of the sun were determined for that time using Stellarium (Az: 252°16' and Alt: 8°48'), allowing reference to the problematic position when checking dates for the 2019 season. It soon became clear that the azimuthal coordinate may not have an effect on the likeliness of a glare, as the sun will set year-round behind the uniform wall of the stadium, and the camera must be allowed to pan across the entire field. This left an emphasis on investigating the altitudinal coordinate of the sun during its setting. A video of the sunset as viewed from the camera stand was recorded in early March this year, allowing conclusions to be drawn by comparing it to the glare event and using Stellarium to check the coordinates. The problematic altitude of the sun was found to occur consistently about one hour before sunset each day, where the glare could be an issue 1.5 to 0.5 hours before sunset, drawn from the duration of the glare. The conclusion reported to ESPN was that they should be concerned about glare in their broadcast when filming on a clear day anywhere between 90 to 30 minutes before sunset on a given day. The ESPN crew in Washington D.C. was able to take this general rule away from the project and they are applying it to the future of sports broadcast at Audi Field.

 

[Gotham Gator]

A stadium at the GAL site would likely be oriented from WNW to ESE - end line to end line. That's not ideal, but it's probably okay - the sun in late afternoon games would be from the WSW and so at about a 45 degree angle to the pitch. It shouldn't interfere with play. The one possible concern is that the tight corner of the stands near the train station would be at the WSW end from where the sun would be shining. So, if the stands are short or empty at that corner, the sun will shine on through, but on the whole, I suspect it will be fine.

As for getting a good view of Manhattan - the tight corner faces out toward upper Manhattan/Washington Heights. The site is basically angled in the same way Manhattan itself is. This means that the skyscrapers of midtown would be straight down through the southern stands. I suppose those could be built lower than the ones on the other side to provide a view from the upper seats.

Below show site with top of page being north.

 

[Kjbert]

Doesn’t a roof like you have at most English stadiums eliminate the sun issue?

Or just manage kickoff times better.

 

[Kjbert]

LionNYC asjed what else we would like to see that would be unique. City does a player/fan walk-in from the bus before home games. They should bring that here.

 

[Seth]

What’s on the other wide of the Deegan? All the way to the left between the Deegan and water?

Ground-level parking lots. I think for the shopping center thing south of the train station but I'm not sure. Might be for baseball, too. Don't really know, to be honest.

 

[FootyLovin]

You could probably keep the MTA overpass over some sort of plaza. Could be a nice feature if you cover it with large screens that show information or show the games live outside the stadium.

I don't think there's any way you can put a stadium in that location without eliminating 153rd. There's simply not enough room on either side of the street alone.

The reconfiguring of the Deegan off ramp could also give room for another plaza on River Ave as shown below.
View attachment 9781

Really like what you did with this. Can you do another version that takes the Deagan ramp over the MTA tracks from River Ave? That would free up another bit of space to expand the plaza on that side. And I'm not sure there is any reason why you couldn't run a roadway over the MTA for that stretch.

 

[LionNYC]

LionNYC asjed what else we would like to see that would be unique. City does a player/fan walk-in from the bus before home games. They should bring that here.

Atlanta does that too.

 

[Kenny]

A stadium at the GAL site would likely be oriented from WNW to ESE - end line to end line. That's not ideal, but it's probably okay - the sun in late afternoon games would be from the WSW and so at about a 45 degree angle to the pitch. It shouldn't interfere with play. The one possible concern is that the tight corner of the stands near the train station would be at the WSW end from where the sun would be shining. So, if the stands are short or empty at that corner, the sun will shine on through, but on the whole, I suspect it will be fine.

As for getting a good view of Manhattan - the tight corner faces out toward upper Manhattan/Washington Heights. The site is basically angled in the same way Manhattan itself is. This means that the skyscrapers of midtown would be straight down through the southern stands. I suppose those could be built lower than the ones on the other side to provide a view from the upper seats.

Below show site with top of page being north.

View attachment 9783

good stuff. also don't forget that the sun angle depends on the season as well as the time of day. Around June 21, for example, at 7pm EDT sun would actually be coming from the WNW, i.e. right behind that western goal, and that's about 90 minutes before sunset so it would be getting low in the sky. Around March 21 and September 21 the sun would be coming from the WSW in the late afternoon like you said, and would set at about 7pm.

 

[Futbolkicks]

I know it would be expensive but a retractable roof would be great , the stadium can then be used year round (concerts, events, etc) it would make attending games in early March/April and November and rainy days much easier. I also would like to see a hybrid playing field , the same as the Ethiad at Man City has (7 % artificial turf ).

 

[Gotham Gator]

good stuff. also don't forget that the sun angle depends on the season as well as the time of day. Around June 21, for example, at 7pm EDT sun would actually be coming from the WNW, i.e. right behind that western goal, and that's about 90 minutes before sunset so it would be getting low in the sky. Around March 21 and September 21 the sun would be coming from the WSW in the late afternoon like you said, and would set at about 7pm.

This is mostly correct. The sun angle will come from a much more southern angle as the season begins in winter and gradually move northward until June 21. It will, however, never set north of due west - at least not in New York. We are too far north.

 

[sundance]

This is mostly correct. The sun angle will come from a much more southern angle as the season begins in winter and gradually move northward until June 21. It will, however, never set north of due west - at least not in New York. We are too far north.

Quick, let’s call University of Nebraska-Lincoln physics undergrad Brandon Harper for the numbers