USMNT Talk

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Ulrich

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No politics in this thread! ;)
None of us voted on Greg Berhalter and the nepotism of protection his brother affords him could have long term consequences.

That said, I had high hopes he’d be a decent coach based on his success with an under-supported Crew roster, but sticking with mediocre guys when there’s talent-galore at the u-20/23 levels is malpractice. Pomykal should be the starting 10 to grow into the position/familiarity of his teammates. Same with Sargent.
 
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moogoo

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tyler adams will play at right back in berhalter's system. which is idiotic. that's like sarri playing kante out of position.

according to the MLS article, he's forcing them to play out of the back a la PV with no option to play long ball when needed. I get the theory and sure, it's great to watch. but we simply don't have the kind of players to play that way and the national squad just doesn't have the time together to develop the chemistry to play in that way.
 

FredMertz

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None of us voted on Greg Berhalter and the nepotism of protection his brother affords him could have long term consequences.

That said, I had high hopes he’d be a decent coach based on his success with an under-supported Crew roster, but sticking with mediocre guys when there’s talent-galore at the u-20/23 levels is malpractice. Pomykal should be the starting 10 to grow into the position/familiarity of his teammates. Same with Sargent.
That was a trump joke, based on your description!
 

ZYanksRule

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This is the first time since supporting the USA, I am actually glad they got pummelled.

US Soccer must be the most inept orgnasiation on the planet for thinking Berhalter was the right coach.

Meanwhile, Tata Martino makes it look easy coaching Mexico.
This player pool would make any coach look bad. Our players simply aren't good enough, and it's high time the US Soccer community realizes that. Aside from Pulisic, I'm not sure how many of our players would be good enough to start for Mexico. The players just aren't good enough.
 

moogoo

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This player pool would make any coach look bad. Our players simply aren't good enough, and it's high time the US Soccer community realizes that. Aside from Pulisic, I'm not sure how many of our players would be good enough to start for Mexico. The players just aren't good enough.
we have a lot of talented players who simply aren't getting called up or given time on the field. why are zardes and trapp get ANY TIME? why are they even getting called up? Pomykal should have started last night as a distributing midfielder. I'd be comfortable seeing him, McKennie, and Adams together in the midfield . Sargeant and Weah should be up top with pulisic. Our back line is where we're kind of hurting for quality. But we have some potential young bucks who just need time and experience. Berhalter is trying to mix his bullshit columbus crew players into the team for some messed up reason.

we have talented young players in the youth national teams that should be called up. there are kids who should be called up into the senior squad in order to LOCK THEM IN so mexico doesn't steal them! (e.g., efram alvarez). It's never been a problem with a player pool - it's always been a problem with the US federation, their scouting, their politics, and inept coaches. This country is massive and to say there isn't enough talent to put together 18 kids who can be competitive on the world stage with soccer where it's been in the last 10 years _IS_ the problem. We were able to qualify for world cups and actually compete in them when soccer and MLS bottom of the totem pole in the american sports mind. Not being able to field a competitive team now is definitely not due to the player pool.. it's due to the US Soccer's ineptitude.
 

Sabo

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I never leave games early. I always have to travel a long way to and from the game and want to experience every minute. I left the USA-Mexico 2009 Gold Cup Final in the 90th minute and Friday night in the 88th after Sargent missed the PK.

I actually was shocked by the USA/Mexico fan percentage at the game. In 2009 it was about 8-1 Mexico, but I think it was even higher for Friday night than 2009 when I would have bet ahead of time the ratio would have been closer to 4-1.

Sitting behind the goal, it was so obvious that SJ is a better fit for Berhalter's system than Steffen. Steffen's distribution is simply not good enough. Don't be surprised if SJ becomes the USMNT #1 goalie over Steffen even though it wont be popular with the fanbase.

Same for Zimmerman, who does a good job playing out of the back in MLS, but can't handle a tougher press like Mexico threw. Trapp is not up to playing at that level either. The game was a useful test to see who shouldn't be in the 11 but no fun to watch as a fan. It wasn't as disturbing as the 2-0 Costa Rica loss at RBA in 2017, because the team didn't look completely lost -- just unable to execute. Maybe its because Berhalter's schemes are similar to PV and Dome's but I think his tactics can work with different players on the field.

Hopefully we get Dest to play during Nations League -- even with that 11 on the field we had the edge over the first 20 minutes because of Dest until Tata shifted his formation to stop giving Dest space. Hopefully giving up the nutmeg that led to the first goal will make him want to prove himself to the USA and become cap-tied. If that happens because of Friday night's game we will look back at the game as a huge success despite the drubbing. Dest takes the USMNT weakest position and makes it a strength that teams have to adjust to. Having Dest on the team is an enormous upgrade.

A huge part of success in CONCACAF is being able to dominate and beat tough but technically inferior teams in hostile environments. Friday night gave us a good idea about who isn't up to that task.
 

QuigrNYCFC

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Anyone else irked by Berhalter's comments here?

“From my perspective, and you guys are going to think I'm crazy, I'm happier about this game than the Gold Cup final,” Berhalter said. “Because in the Gold Cup final, I felt like all we did was play the ball long. And that was our only solution. And now, at least we tried to play in the way we’re envisioning.”

I can't imagine any coach happy about his team losing 3-0. I think his "we're progressing, learning and getting better with the system" line will get old if they keep losing big games.
 

VernonJohn

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Anyone else irked by Berhalter's comments here?

“From my perspective, and you guys are going to think I'm crazy, I'm happier about this game than the Gold Cup final,” Berhalter said. “Because in the Gold Cup final, I felt like all we did was play the ball long. And that was our only solution. And now, at least we tried to play in the way we’re envisioning.”

I can't imagine any coach happy about his team losing 3-0. I think his "we're progressing, learning and getting better with the system" line will get old if they keep losing big games.
I’m thinking that GB is delusional. He’s probably the only person who would continue to use Zardes and Trapp. I’m getting a bad feeling about the USMNT.
 

moogoo

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Anyone else irked by Berhalter's comments here?

“From my perspective, and you guys are going to think I'm crazy, I'm happier about this game than the Gold Cup final,” Berhalter said. “Because in the Gold Cup final, I felt like all we did was play the ball long. And that was our only solution. And now, at least we tried to play in the way we’re envisioning.”

I can't imagine any coach happy about his team losing 3-0. I think his "we're progressing, learning and getting better with the system" line will get old if they keep losing big games.
PV insisted on playing short and out of the back no matter what. GB is trying to do the same thing with the USMNT. THe difference is PV was not happy when he lost and he demanded better. The look on PV's face when we would get pummeled by the red bulls since we kept trying to play out of the back said it all.

GB is delusional. Part of being a good manager is picking the best players available, knowing or learning their strengths and weaknesses, and then creating a system that best amplifies their talents. Instead, GB is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. He just doesn't get it. Add to that his inability to pick the right players or recognize talent and aggressively go after them and call them up -- i really worry if we have any chance of making the next world cup. qualifiers start next year and it will say everything.
 
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Marito

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PV insisted on playing short and out of the back no matter what. GB is trying to do the same thing with the USMNT. THe difference is PV was not happy when he lost and he demanded better. The look on PV's face when we would get pummeled by the red bulls since we kept trying to play out of the back said it all.

GB is delusional. Part of being a good manager is picking the best players available, knowing or learning their strengths and weaknesses, and then creating a system that best amplifies their talents. Instead, GB is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. He just doesn't get it. Add to that his inability to pick the right players or recognize talent and aggressively go after them and call them up -- i really worry if we have any chance of making the next world cup. qualifiers start next year and it will say everything.
I think it is difficult to set long-term, reasonable priorities in a country like the US, which is used to dominating every other team sport worldwide, and with a team such as the USMNT that plays in a region as unbalanced as CONCACAF. On the one hand Mexico is clearly superior and produces a lot more top talent, to the point that it can knock out credible superpowers from tournaments in a way the US can't. OTOH the other teams in the region except Costa Rica are quite horribly bad. Against any CONCACAF team other than Mexico it would make perfect sense for the USMNT to build from the back and play a possession-style game. That would be much safer and reasonable than playing long 50/50 balls against physical, speedy teams such as Jamaica and T&T that are embarrassingly limited on the ball. Being reliably #2 in the region would guarantee WC slots for the US, and also improve the chances to displace CR to 3rd regularly, instead of sweating it. CR for example doesn't have more top-end talent than the U.S. (in fact has less) but has a better-rounded identity as a typical Hispanic American team, short passing, not terribly fast or phyisical, good on possession, relatively comfortable in tight spaces, etc. ES, Honduras, Guatemala, etc. are all bad versions of the same, like Bolivia is a bad version of Peru, and Peru a bad version of Colombia. To play better against such teams, especially when playing away, the US needs to learn to have the ball more and keep it better, because it makes no sense and it's a bit shameful to wait and counter an inferior team (unless you have MBappe, I guess)

My feeling always is that the USMNT needs to find its place in the world hierarchy and be comfortable with it, and try to climb up from there based on being more than the sum of its parts. The way I see it, the tiers are those who could really win a World Cup (including teams such as Argentina that have been playing like crap since forever but have the talent), those who could give them a hard time (Mexico, Colombia, Uruguay, etc), the OK teams who don't get embarrassed (a huge group of maybe 50 or 60, where the U.S. is and from where for example Chile climbed up admirably to get to the 2nd tier, and is now falling back down), the bad and worse ones (close to 100, including most of CONCACAF)
 

moogoo

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I think it is difficult to set long-term, reasonable priorities in a country like the US, which is used to dominating every other team sport worldwide, and with a team such as the USMNT that plays in a region as unbalanced as CONCACAF. On the one hand Mexico is clearly superior and produces a lot more top talent, to the point that it can knock out credible superpowers from tournaments in a way the US can't. OTOH the other teams in the region except Costa Rica are quite horribly bad. Against any CONCACAF team other than Mexico it would make perfect sense for the USMNT to build from the back and play a possession-style game. That would be much safer and reasonable than playing long 50/50 balls against physical, speedy teams such as Jamaica and T&T that are embarrassingly limited on the ball. Being reliably #2 in the region would guarantee WC slots for the US, and also improve the chances to displace CR to 3rd regularly, instead of sweating it. CR for example doesn't have more top-end talent than the U.S. (in fact has less) but has a better-rounded identity as a typical Hispanic American team, short passing, not terribly fast or phyisical, good on possession, relatively comfortable in tight spaces, etc. ES, Honduras, Guatemala, etc. are all bad versions of the same, like Bolivia is a bad version of Peru, and Peru a bad version of Colombia. To play better against such teams, especially when playing away, the US needs to learn to have the ball more and keep it better, because it makes no sense and it's a bit shameful to wait and counter an inferior team (unless you have MBappe, I guess)

My feeling always is that the USMNT needs to find its place in the world hierarchy and be comfortable with it, and try to climb up from there based on being more than the sum of its parts. The way I see it, the tiers are those who could really win a World Cup (including teams such as Argentina that have been playing like crap since forever but have the talent), those who could give them a hard time (Mexico, Colombia, Uruguay, etc), the OK teams who don't get embarrassed (a huge group of maybe 50 or 60, where the U.S. is and from where for example Chile climbed up admirably to get to the 2nd tier, and is now falling back down), the bad and worse ones (close to 100, including most of CONCACAF)
I am not against keeping possession and playing from the back. but it sounds like GB wants this style to the detriment of results. next year qualifiers begin.. are we going to be ok with losing qualifiers just so we can keep this style? Keeping possession and playing short passes is what Dome wants us, but even he believes that sometimes a purposeful long ball is the better option. GB doesn't seem to believe in purposeful long balls. But the bigger problem is that GB's player selection is just piss poor. I agree Mexico produces top talent. But why aren't we jumping on talent to lock them into the USMNT before Mexico does? Efrain Alvarez is the first name that pops into my head and I know there's at least one other. Why are we developing talent in our country only to see them taken by Mexico? That's just foolish. On top of it all, out of all the americans available to select, he keeps going back to his crew players who just aren't good enough for the international stage.

Going back to the possession game - do you really think short passes to keep possession is really going to work in these poorer CONCACAF countries? What makes CONCACAF difficult is having to go into poor field conditions and grinding out a result against an inferior opponent who is used to playing in such conditions and has the speed and agility to take advantage of bad bounces, traps, and passes.
 
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FootyLovin

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Keeping possession and playing short passes is what Dome wants us, but even he believes that sometimes a purposeful long ball is the better option. GB doesn't seem to believe in purposeful long balls.
I actually think this depends on development stage and match importance. If I'm playing a (relatively) meaningless match, that's a perfect training ground to force my team to play in a way that is desired but uncomfortable. I'm totally okay with the "no long balls" approach to push the team to better understand what they can and can't force. As soon as you give someone the option of a comfortable choice they will overuse it if they haven't fully developed the more challenging choice first. This is the perfect time for the team to learn this.
 

mgarbowski

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I actually think this depends on development stage and match importance. If I'm playing a (relatively) meaningless match, that's a perfect training ground to force my team to play in a way that is desired but uncomfortable. I'm totally okay with the "no long balls" approach to push the team to better understand what they can and can't force. As soon as you give someone the option of a comfortable choice they will overuse it if they haven't fully developed the more challenging choice first. This is the perfect time for the team to learn this.
Like many, I have issues with Berhalter's player selections. But I'm also fine with him sticking to his plan and forcing its implementation in friendlies. That's what they're for. And with a nod to the nepotism issue (and to the year wasted making that decision), you don't hire Greg Berhalter unless you want to see the team developed in this way and you have to back him while he tries it. And even if this is a bad plan, I'd rather see it tried, and fail, than go through another cycle with no stability and a coaching change during qualifiers. I could be persuaded otherwise if I believed we would hire a super capable, tactically flexible and conversant coach who could come in and just make the team better on the fly. But I don't have much faith in that happening either.
 

adam

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Like many, I have issues with Berhalter's player selections. But I'm also fine with him sticking to his plan and forcing its implementation in friendlies. That's what they're for. And with a nod to the nepotism issue (and to the year wasted making that decision), you don't hire Greg Berhalter unless you want to see the team developed in this way and you have to back him while he tries it. And even if this is a bad plan, I'd rather see it tried, and fail, than go through another cycle with no stability and a coaching change during qualifiers. I could be persuaded otherwise if I believed we would hire a super capable, tactically flexible and conversant coach who could come in and just make the team better on the fly. But I don't have much faith in that happening either.
Dome for USMNT manager?
 

Marito

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I am not against keeping possession and playing from the back. but it sounds like GB wants this style to the detriment of results. next year qualifiers begin.. are we going to be ok with losing qualifiers just so we can keep this style? Keeping possession and playing short passes is what Dome wants us, but even he believes that sometimes a purposeful long ball is the better option. GB doesn't seem to believe in purposeful long balls. But the bigger problem is that GB's player selection is just piss poor. I agree Mexico produces top talent. But why aren't we jumping on talent to lock them into the USMNT before Mexico does? Efrain Alvarez is the first name that pops into my head and I know there's at least one other. Why are we developing talent in our country only to see them taken by Mexico? That's just foolish. On top of it all, out of all the americans available to select, he keeps going back to his crew players who just aren't good enough for the international stage.

Going back to the possession game - do you really think short passes to keep possession is really going to work in these poorer CONCACAF countries? What makes CONCACAF difficult is having to go into poor field conditions and grinding out a result against an inferior opponent who is used to playing in such conditions and has the speed and agility to take advantage of bad bounces, traps, and passes.
I don't know if there's much you can do about talent developed by, say, an MLS academy that ends up playing for the Mexico NT (or any other) If the player is courted by their federation, and he thinks he is good enough to gain a place in their team sheet, then he'll decide what he thinks is best for his career. That usually means playing for the stronger team. Then again, you have young prospects that fizzle and late bloomers.
 

moogoo

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I don't know if there's much you can do about talent developed by, say, an MLS academy that ends up playing for the Mexico NT (or any other) If the player is courted by their federation, and he thinks he is good enough to gain a place in their team sheet, then he'll decide what he thinks is best for his career. That usually means playing for the stronger team. Then again, you have young prospects that fizzle and late bloomers.
I know whether or not a talent with the ability/opportunity to play for another country is up to that individual player. But it's also the job of the country's federation to scout the best talent. Alvarez, for example, has played for both US and Mexico, and has said he hasn't decided which to play for. You'd be hard pressed to believe he wouldn't go for Mexico if he has a chance to play since they clearly have a better chance at winning something. But from what I've read in the past, it seems like the US federation isn't even talking to him. if this is true, then they are ignoring talent and THAT is just wrong.

I actually think this depends on development stage and match importance. If I'm playing a (relatively) meaningless match, that's a perfect training ground to force my team to play in a way that is desired but uncomfortable. I'm totally okay with the "no long balls" approach to push the team to better understand what they can and can't force. As soon as you give someone the option of a comfortable choice they will overuse it if they haven't fully developed the more challenging choice first. This is the perfect time for the team to learn this.
you make a very valid point. timing is fine, but when it's our biggest rival, I think he could have loosened the reigns a bit. just because it's mexico. OTOH, the fact that is mexico makes learning this style against a strong opponent all the more beneficial. I just hope by the time qualifiers come around next year, the team plays to win and doesn't just play to play a style..
 
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VernonJohn

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It’s not Berthalters fault that the players can’t execute his genius system! He’s seen in his mind how such crafty plans win MLS championships and World Cup after World Cup. If he could just find soccer players with enough intellect and skill to grasp such revolutionary tactics he’d be the greatest coach of all time.
 

moogoo

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How come no one bitches that the USMNT is playing in a baseball stadium? we get shit thrown on us all the time and the USMNT goes and plays in a baseball stadium. with all the SSS stadiums in the country, they pick a baseball one...

guess when St Louis gets their SSS built, it'll be there.

and looks like GB sucks it up again. WHy isn't pomykal in the lineup? He is the future holding midfielder. He is OUR Frankie De Jong. We're playing against a uruguay squad without their top players and we're having so much trouble. if his system is so important, pomykal should be in tehre, hands down. we don't have anyone else who does what he does in the team this fifa break.
 
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