2020 Roster Discussion

adam

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Beat me to the punchline
 

QuigrNYCFC

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What do you mean mls vets? I mean today players like Nani gallese Dike are not “vets”. Players like mata callens probably have more experience in MLS than them they are of vets.

There is a value to having players who have MLS experience.

There are only 2 players on our roster who have played for another MLS team: Sean Johnson and Gedion Zelalem.

We should be looking to bring in players who have played for other MLS teams rather than bringing in guys who are new to the league.
 
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moogoo

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There is a value to having players who have MLS experience.

There are only 2 players on our roster who have played for another MLS team: Sean Johnson and Gedion Zelalem.

We should be looking to bring in players who have played for other MLS teams rather than bringing in guys who are new to the league.

Rocha
 
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Fantazma

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There is a value to having players who have MLS experience.

There are only 2 players on our roster who have played for another MLS team: Sean Johnson and Gedion Zelalem.

We should be looking to bring in players who have played for other MLS teams rather than bringing in guys who are new to the league.

But why is that useful ? 2015 was filled of players with mls experience and helped for nothing. We had McNamara and I don’t think that is a game changer.

You really telling me callens, chanot, tinnerholm ring parks all are not good because they don’t have prior MLS experience?

The more the years pass the there will be less dependency due to better foreigners coming in and good academy kids moving up.

I mean some of the dudes that killing the league past few years had no mls experience. On the flip side a lot of our guys now have 2/3 or more years in mls so they are vets.
 
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QuigrNYCFC

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But why is that useful ? 2015 was filled of players with mls experience and helped for nothing. We had McNamara and I don’t think that is a game changer.

You really telling me callens, chanot, tinnerholm ring parks all are not good because they don’t have prior MLS experience?

The more the years pass the more there will be less dependency due to better foreigners coming in and good academy kids moving up.

I mean some of the dudes that killing the league past few years had no mls experience. On the flip side a lot of our guys now have 2/3 or more years in mls so they are vets.

I didn't say that Callens, Chanot, Tinnerholm, Ring and Parks are not good because they don't have prior experience.

What I am saying is that this team/organization is clearly not interested in acquiring players from MLS. They are more interested in bringing in players from other leagues. Apart from Rocha, Johnson, Zelalem.

I think it's fair to say that playing in MLS is different than playing in other leagues and there is a value to having players who have prior MLS experience.
 

Fantazma

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I didn't say that Callens, Chanot, Tinnerholm, Ring and Parks are not good because they don't have prior experience.

What I am saying is that this team/organization is clearly not interested in acquiring players from MLS. They are more interested in bringing in players from other leagues. Apart from Rocha, Johnson, Zelalem.

I think it's fair to say that playing in MLS is different than playing in other leagues and there is a value to having players who have prior MLS experience.

But again, we have A lot of players now with that experience earned for past few years. If you mean to win Cups then that falls on better DP’s which are generally foreign players that do not have mls experience.

I don’t know what Rocha is brining that really makes it a game changer, solid back up? yes. We win leagues with him? no. Zelalem is always injured which doesn’t help at all so That’s a bad signing but we knew risk.

Johnson yes has helped but that’s on good GK level but was having a bad year or two in Chicago and even lost his Starting position. But at the time was improvement from Saunders, anyone probably was.
 

QuigrNYCFC

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But again, we have A lot of players now with that experience earned for past few years. If you mean to win Cups then that falls on better DP’s which are generally foreign players that do not have mls experience.

I don’t know what Rocha is brining that really makes it a game changer, solid back up? yes. We win leagues with him? no. Zelalem is always injured which doesn’t help at all so That’s a bad signing but we knew risk.

Johnson yes has helped but that’s on good GK level but was having a bad year or two in Chicago and even lost his Starting position. But at the time was improvement from Saunders, anyone probably was.


Solid back-ups are extremely important in this league. Imagine if we had any of these players as backups.

Harry Shipp
Aurelian Collin
Bradley Wright Phillips
Nick Deleon
Jorge Villafaña
Lee Nguyen
Matt Polster
Matt Besler
Graham Zusi
Darlington Nagbe
 

Fantazma

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Solid back-ups are extremely important in this league. Imagine if we had any of these players as backups.

Harry Shipp
Aurelian Collin
Bradley Wright Phillips
Nick Deleon
Jorge Villafaña
Lee Nguyen
Matt Polster
Matt Besler
Graham Zusi
Darlington Nagbe

I only take BWP and nagbe tbh
 
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Brooklyn Blue

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Solid back-ups are extremely important in this league. Imagine if we had any of these players as backups.

Harry Shipp
Aurelian Collin
Bradley Wright Phillips
Nick Deleon
Jorge Villafaña
Lee Nguyen
Matt Polster
Matt Besler
Graham Zusi
Darlington Nagbe

Who on the current roster would you drop to add from that list? And, would the salary fit under the cap? A number of the top players on that list all make 500 to 600K - or more (Nagbe, Besler, Zusi, Nguyen). I disagree with your assertion, but I am willing to listen to arguments.

The issue isn't MLS veterans. The current squad absent DP's is one of the best in the league. The issue is terrible use of the three DP slots. Do you believe the result today would have been the same if we had, for example, Ruidiaz and Lodeiro instead of BLANK (Mitrita) and Medina? Maybe Bou and Nani?

NYCFC has never had three solid good contributing DP's for an extended period of time. During the brief window Lampard was scoring, Villa was on and off the pitch and Pirlo was crostini. Medina has been poor until the end of this year....when Maxi was hurt most of the time and Mitrita was in a different time zone.

I will concur that the roster needs a change, but it isn't the bench or spine that is the problem.
 

ZYanksRule

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I really don't think we lost because we don't have MLS veterans. That's silly. Our team is good enough. Now, I do think our team collapses in big moments -- and that's something they need to figure out. Ronny was great in his postgame media interview. All-but said the team choked and didn't have a championship mentality.
 

mgarbowski

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The roster had other problems besides poor DPs.
  • We had no backup striker for Heber. Castellanos is a winger who can be a serviceable short term striker, or part of a 2-striker combo, but should not be a starting sole striker.
  • We have no backup for Maxi better than replacement player level.
  • We have an overabundance of wingers, of varied quality. Some of those spots would have been better used for other positions,even if we did not upgrade quality.
  • We had 4 starting level players for 3 positions: Sands, Parks, Moralez, and Ring, which led the coach to play one or more of them out of position repeatedly. Yet none of the 3 who are not Maxi were capable of replacing Maxi, who generally was replaced by one of he wingers (Medina).
  • We have a backup right back we sold to the Bundesliga but played only 70 minutes all season, and when the starting RB got a (maybe) concussion in a playoff game, the coach replaced him with a CB instead of the actual RB.
But I also agree the overall quality of our subs is pretty good for MLS. It's just a poor mix, and involves players the coach did not trust enough to play.
 

moogoo

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The roster had other problems besides poor DPs.
  • We had no backup striker for Heber. Castellanos is a winger who can be a serviceable short term striker, or part of a 2-striker combo, but should not be a starting sole striker.
  • We have no backup for Maxi better than replacement player level.
  • We have an overabundance of wingers, of varied quality. Some of those spots would have been better used for other positions,even if we did not upgrade quality.
  • We had 4 starting level players for 3 positions: Sands, Parks, Moralez, and Ring, which led the coach to play one or more of them out of position repeatedly. Yet none of the 3 who are not Maxi were capable of replacing Maxi, who generally was replaced by one of he wingers (Medina).
  • We have a backup right back we sold to the Bundesliga but played only 70 minutes all season, and when the starting RB got a (maybe) concussion in a playoff game, the coach replaced him with a CB instead of the actual RB.
But I also agree the overall quality of our subs is pretty good for MLS. It's just a poor mix, and involves players the coach did not trust enough to play.

I honestly think Parks could fill in for Maxi better than medina. Medina has looked good at his role on the wing. Parks has better ball retention and vision, so is a good playmaker replacement for maxi and he could definitely improve as he develops and actually plays in that position more.

agree about taty. overall, i think its poor subs. and unlike anton, Gudi is NOT good at soccer.
 

ZYanksRule

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The roster had other problems besides poor DPs.
  • We had no backup striker for Heber. Castellanos is a winger who can be a serviceable short term striker, or part of a 2-striker combo, but should not be a starting sole striker.
  • We have no backup for Maxi better than replacement player level.
  • We have an overabundance of wingers, of varied quality. Some of those spots would have been better used for other positions,even if we did not upgrade quality.
  • We had 4 starting level players for 3 positions: Sands, Parks, Moralez, and Ring, which led the coach to play one or more of them out of position repeatedly. Yet none of the 3 who are not Maxi were capable of replacing Maxi, who generally was replaced by one of he wingers (Medina).
  • We have a backup right back we sold to the Bundesliga but played only 70 minutes all season, and when the starting RB got a (maybe) concussion in a playoff game, the coach replaced him with a CB instead of the actual RB.
But I also agree the overall quality of our subs is pretty good for MLS. It's just a poor mix, and involves players the coach did not trust enough to play.

Subs were weird, but it felt like Ronny was just trying to get some fresh legs on the field in hopes they could unlock a tired 10-man Orlando. I'm not sure there was more to it than that. Ibeagha was weird, but let's be honest. There were maybe two subs you wanted to see in this game. That's just a reaction to the injuries to Heber/Sands, and Mitrita leaving. Our depth was severely tested. Pretty amazing how good we were in the second half of the year despite all the issues.
 

QuigrNYCFC

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Who on the current roster would you drop to add from that list? And, would the salary fit under the cap? A number of the top players on that list all make 500 to 600K - or more (Nagbe, Besler, Zusi, Nguyen). I disagree with your assertion, but I am willing to listen to arguments.

The issue isn't MLS veterans. The current squad absent DP's is one of the best in the league. The issue is terrible use of the three DP slots. Do you believe the result today would have been the same if we had, for example, Ruidiaz and Lodeiro instead of BLANK (Mitrita) and Medina? Maybe Bou and Nani?

NYCFC has never had three solid good contributing DP's for an extended period of time. During the brief window Lampard was scoring, Villa was on and off the pitch and Pirlo was crostini. Medina has been poor until the end of this year....when Maxi was hurt most of the time and Mitrita was in a different time zone.

I will concur that the roster needs a change, but it isn't the bench or spine that is the problem.

I would drop GMS, Taty, Gudi, Mata, Parks, Medina and Rocha in a heartbeat. For any of the guys on that list.

There are problems with the spine of this team.

It’s four seasons now without playoff success. We need some players on this team who have won an MLS cup. We need MLS experience.
 

Kjbert

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We lost that game because we didn’t have a difference maker Striker on the pitch. And no, I don’t think Heber, supporter by GMS and Medina, is that guy.
David Villa was. Henry was. Robbie Keane was. See what I’m getting at?