Away - 6/30 Chicago

[Ulrich]

For every Kaku, there is a Vernon. Nothing is a sure thing. To think that you can just pick a guy as "certified" for that price is incredibly naive. You have to roll the dice and you want to roll it with the best dice you can.

Naive? No, but thanks or ‘splaining that to me.

Verón, I assume that’s who you meant, was only €2m and 25yo when they got him, so he was neither a young DP nor a very valuable one. If he was 5years younger at that price then he’d be in the roll the dice category, but still beneath the threshold $5m I mentioned.

And with our massive scouting group, we shouldn’t be “rolling the dice” on players that occupy DP spots. Those spots are so special, they have a built-in failsafe of being able to spend an unlimited amount of money, if that’s what it takes, to guarantee quality - either quality on the field (what we’re looking for) or quality of name (Pirlo, Lampard, Rooney, Kaka) for marketing. Medina is a luxury at best for the first and definitely not the second.

While not a perfect 1-1 correlation, transfer value does relate to quality, and while quality players can be had on free transfers, nobody is going to get a budding young star for nothing (unless they are in an MLS academy) as their current club will definitely transfer them for a fee before the contract expires. And there are definitely players out there in the $5-10m range, from South America, that would jump at the chance to come to America/NYC where quality of life is great, there are plenty of ethnic groups to make the transition from home easier, and paychecks aren’t gonna bounce.

So yeah, NYCFC cheaped out and rolled the dice on Medina, and he’s not a difference maker. Shame on us, because we wasted the most valuable roster mechanism offered.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Naive? No, but thanks or ‘splaining that to me.

Verón, I assume that’s who you meant, was only €2m and 25yo when they got him, so he was neither a young DP nor a very valuable one. If he was 5years younger at that price then he’d be in the roll the dice category, but still beneath the threshold $5m I mentioned.

And with our massive scouting group, we shouldn’t be “rolling the dice” on players that occupy DP spots. Those spots are so special, they have a built-in failsafe of being able to spend an unlimited amount of money, if that’s what it takes, to guarantee quality - either quality on the field (what we’re looking for) or quality of name (Pirlo, Lampard, Rooney, Kaka) for marketing. Medina is a luxury at best for the first and definitely not the second.

While not a perfect 1-1 correlation, transfer value does relate to quality, and while quality players can be had on free transfers, nobody is going to get a budding young star for nothing (unless they are in an MLS academy) as their current club will definitely transfer them for a fee before the contract expires. And there are definitely players out there in the $5-10m range, from South America, that would jump at the chance to come to America/NYC where quality of life is great, there are plenty of ethnic groups to make the transition from home easier, and paychecks aren’t gonna bounce.

So yeah, NYCFC cheaped out and rolled the dice on Medina, and he’s not a difference maker. Shame on us, because we wasted the most valuable roster mechanism offered.

You roll dice on every move you make. That's how the real world works. This isn't a Football Manager save file.

 

[adam]

Naive? No, but thanks or ‘splaining that to me.

Verón, I assume that’s who you meant, was only €2m and 25yo when they got him, so he was neither a young DP nor a very valuable one. If he was 5years younger at that price then he’d be in the roll the dice category, but still beneath the threshold $5m I mentioned.

And with our massive scouting group, we shouldn’t be “rolling the dice” on players that occupy DP spots. Those spots are so special, they have a built-in failsafe of being able to spend an unlimited amount of money, if that’s what it takes, to guarantee quality - either quality on the field (what we’re looking for) or quality of name (Pirlo, Lampard, Rooney, Kaka) for marketing. Medina is a luxury at best for the first and definitely not the second.

While not a perfect 1-1 correlation, transfer value does relate to quality, and while quality players can be had on free transfers, nobody is going to get a budding young star for nothing (unless they are in an MLS academy) as their current club will definitely transfer them for a fee before the contract expires. And there are definitely players out there in the $5-10m range, from South America, that would jump at the chance to come to America/NYC where quality of life is great, there are plenty of ethnic groups to make the transition from home easier, and paychecks aren’t gonna bounce.

So yeah, NYCFC cheaped out and rolled the dice on Medina, and he’s not a difference maker. Shame on us, because we wasted the most valuable roster mechanism offered.

We also wanted a chance to earn GAM by selling the player on after 1-2 good season here to showcase. It’s actually bad business not to spend a more on a good bet.

 

[Ulrich]

You roll dice on every move you make. That's how the real world works. This isn't a Football Manager save file.

Actually life is about making calculated moves that reduce the precentage of pure chance.

 

[Ulrich]

We also wanted a chance to earn GAM by selling the player on after 1-2 good season here to showcase. It’s actually bad business not to spend a more on a good bet.

Right, and unless he kicks it up another few gears, he’s not gonna draw the interest from a paying/buying league. He’d never survive the physicality of defenders in Italy, Germany, or England. Maybe he’d be ok in France or Spain, but would a bottom rung team pay much for him?

 

[Kjbert]

Here's a thought. Our Latin American scouting network blows. Our European network has hit it out of the park.

Stop fucking spending money on players playing in Latin America. Medina. Calle. Mena. Mendoza. The other Mendoza. Gomez. Martinez. Bravo. Camargo.

Throw in Matarrita and Maxi's DP contract.

We need better scouting.

 

[adam]

Here's a thought. Our Latin American scouting network blows. Our European network has hit it out of the park.

Stop fucking spending money on players playing in Latin America. Medina. Calle. Mena. Mendoza. The other Mendoza. Gomez. Martinez. Bravo. Camargo.

Throw in Matarrita and Maxi's DP contract.

We need better scouting.

Never thought of it that way. Conversely we got:

Brilliant, chanot, ring, tin, Iraola, nemec, berget. It’s not 100% in Europe, but it’s night and day.

 

[dummyrun]

Stop fucking spending money on players playing in Latin America. Medina.

Sorry I'm gonna have to stop you right there.

Whoa wait I went back and saw this thread is full of Jesus hate. What is wrong with y'all.

 

[SanBartG]

You roll dice on every move you make. That's how the real world works. This isn't a Football Manager save file.

Saying outcomes are never guaranteed is one thing. Saying you always roll the dice is something else.

 

[Marito]

I think we also need to define what we understand by "world class" as opposed to "MLS level" and see if there isn't a huge gap in between. If we look at the World Cup that's going on right now, there's only 2 teams that have looked completely out of their depth (Panama and Saudi Arabia), and it is no coincidence that the worst of the 2 is stacked with perfectly fine MLS players. Those 2 are also relatively cheap squads (11 and 20 million market value respectively for the whole 23-man squad) which would also seem justified. By that account, almost anybody starting for the remaining 30 teams would be world class enough to shine in MLS and for us. I'm focusing specially on the next-cheaper teams, like Peru, Iran, Australia, etc. Not one player in those teams is, or will ever be, Villa caliber. Ditto for our 10 starters not named Villa, which are guys from 2 Bundesliga, or deemed expendable by Rapid Wien, or Malmo. And those are our best players. So we don't need to find a teenage Villa and we don't need to find "world class" level as such. But we need to find 20 or 22 year olds who are close to being comfortable and decent at a world cup. A guy like Yoshi Yotun fits the bill and he's not worth 15 or 20 million. Not even close. The question for me is what's the difference between a prime-age and maturity Yotun, or Valeri, or Lodeiro, or Felipe Gutierrez, and that player at 20?

 

[Marito]

To put it a different way, people talk about Valeri, Almiron, Kaku, Martinez as guys who are talking the soccer world by storm. They are not. They are taking the MLS world by storm. My bet would be none of them ever becomes an EPL starter or similar. I don't think any MLS club has yet done what Banfield in Argentina did when it purchased James from Envigado (a modest Colombian team) at age 17.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Saying outcomes are never guaranteed is one thing. Saying you always roll the dice is something else.

It's exactly the same thing.

 

[SanBartG]

It's exactly the same thing.

Honest question- Is English not your first language?

Adam and Ulrich obviously both understood the distinction where it seems to be hopelessly lost on you and I just can’t understand why.

 

[Ulrich]

Honest question- Is English not your first language?

Adam and Ulrich obviously both understood the distinction where it seems to be hopelessly lost on you and I just can’t understand why.

The distinction is really that not all outcomes are guaranteed, while some are, which is different than rolling the dice. That’s how I interpreted what you meant in your post, but the wording was a little jumbled.

 

[SanBartG]

The distinction is really that not all outcomes are guaranteed, while some are, which is different than rolling the dice. That’s how I interpreted what you meant in your post, but the wording was a little jumbled.

Then, as I thought, you basically understood what was intended

There is a chasm between the (not so) predictable outcomes of rolling dice and, as you said, making calculated decisions that reduce the likelihood that the outcome is pure chance.

Saying “not guaranteed” and “rolling the dice” are equal, is ridiculous. I’m not guaranteed a lot of lot things life. But the likelihood of many of things happening (or not) isn’t pure chance either.

 

[Ulrich]

Then, as I thought, you basically understood what was intended

There is a chasm between the (not so) predictable outcomes of rolling dice and, as you said, making calculated decisions that reduce the likelihood that the outcome is pure chance.

Saying “not guaranteed” and “rolling the dice” are equal, is ridiculous. I’m not guaranteed a lot of lot things life. But the likelihood of many of things happening isn’t pure chance either.

Correct.

 

[JayH]

I have been amongst the harshest of critics on Medina and the space waste. With that said, he has shown some glimpses of talent, including that 50 yard gallop on the goal earlier in the season that had the coaching staff with looks of amazement, and a series of ankle-breaking one v. one moves along the way. There were many early calls that Medina > Harrison. The kid has some talent. Dome provides some hope that he can get helpful value out of him. Likely not young DP value, that's already a miss (and as some including me have said, a big one). But PV clearly was not the coach of the caliber to unlock kids. He definitely wasn't the coach with the tactical acumen to find the right spot to maximize the usefulness of a kid with talent. But then you have Dome with a coaching lifetime of both of those things. There is some hope that he gets more out of Medina and/or gets him in the right spot to excel. That's my positive spin to help me feel less bad.

 

[Ulrich]

I have been amongst the harshest of critics on Medina and the space waste. With that said, he has shown some glimpses of talent, including that 50 yard gallop on the goal earlier in the season that had the coaching staff with looks of amazement, and a series of ankle-breaking one v. one moves along the way. There were many early calls that Medina > Harrison. The kid has some talent. Dome provides some hope that he can get helpful value out of him. Likely not young DP value, that's already a miss (and as some including me have said, a big one). But PV clearly was not the coach of the caliber to unlock kids. He definitely wasn't the coach with the tactical acumen to find the right spot to maximize the usefulness of a kid with talent. But then you have Dome with a coaching lifetime of both of those things. There is some hope that he gets more out of Medina and/or gets him in the right spot to excel. That's my positive spin to help me feel less bad.

Since we’re stuck with him, I too hope Dome can raise Medina’s game, but I don’t want the exercise to use him to overshadow other player’s development, like Lewis’, simply because they’re trying to justify his role as a DP.

 

[JayH]

Since we’re stuck with him, I too hope Dome can raise Medina’s game, but I don’t want the exercise to use him to overshadow other player’s development, like Lewis’, simply because they’re trying to justify his role as a DP.

The fresh eyes on Lewis will be nice as well. Fresh eyes on everything really.

 

[sundance]

The kid has some talent. Dome provides some hope that he can get helpful value out of him. Likely not young DP value, that's already a miss (and as some including me have said, a big one). But PV clearly was not the coach of the caliber to unlock kids. He definitely wasn't the coach with the tactical acumen to find the right spot to maximize the usefulness of a kid with talent. But then you have Dome with a coaching lifetime of both of those things.

I am much more optimistic regarding both Medina’s talent and Domè’s ability to unlock it / put it to good use. This board likes its scapegoats, but I think a little patience with Medina will pay off just fine. Let’s see where we are at the end of the season.