City Football Group - Financials & Acquisitions

[JCMore]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this news but I figured it could have some (albeit very little) implications on the club.

UAE President Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan dies aged 73
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/13/middleeast/uae-president-dies-intl/index.html

 

[LionNYC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536700502498484224

 

[LionNYC]

Would mean teams in England, USA, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Uruguay, India, China, Japan, and Australia

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520139165412823045

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543894862084378625

 

[JCMore]

Thinking out loud and figured I’d drum up some conversation. I don’t really follow any other teams in the world except NYCFC so for the most part I don’t have a pulse on foreign leagues. So with the preface out of the way, what is everyone’s thoughts about CFG’s goals for purchasing clubs around the world? Obviously making money and investing. But is there goal to make each and every team a top of the table team in their own leagues? I understand MCFC is the flag ship so of course the most money and investment in the team is to win in order to make more money. But when you look at Girona FC, Montevideo City FC Torque, Mumbai City in India, is their goal to make championship teams to compete for their individual cups each year, or is it all about developing and purchasing talent to test at these levels to move them up the pipeline towards Mancity or to be sold for profit (Jack Harrison)? I see the cases of NYC and Melbourne where those teams are constantly at the top of the table in their respective leagues but I’m not sure about any of the other teams. The main team I’m thinking about is Girona FC (mostly because of Taty). They have been recently promoted to La Liga and will be completing against the best teams in Spain, but as of right now, they are definitely not a FC Barça, Atleti, or RM. Is that the goal? To make Girona a team of that size and caliber? Or is it mostly just a stepping stone for players and its goal is to stay in La Liga and not be relegated back down? And then there is the entirely different case where CFG is minority stakes in other clubs like Yokohama F Marinos or Sichuan Jiuniu FC. What are there goals with the minority stake clubs?

This is just meant to be a thought exercise and I know that no one here has the inside scoop on CFG’s plans and goals, so I’m curious of anyone else’s opinions.

TLDR: Is every team in the CFG family trying to be at the top of their specific league or are their some teams just meant to be player development and scouting teams (similar in regards to FC Dallas)?

 

[mgarbowski]

Thinking out loud and figured I’d drum up some conversation. I don’t really follow any other teams in the world except NYCFC so for the most part I don’t have a pulse on foreign leagues. So with the preface out of the way, what is everyone’s thoughts about CFG’s goals for purchasing clubs around the world? Obviously making money and investing. But is there goal to make each and every team a top of the table team in their own leagues? I understand MCFC is the flag ship so of course the most money and investment in the team is to win in order to make more money. But when you look at Girona FC, Montevideo City FC Torque, Mumbai City in India, is their goal to make championship teams to compete for their individual cups each year, or is it all about developing and purchasing talent to test at these levels to move them up the pipeline towards Mancity or to be sold for profit (Jack Harrison)? I see the cases of NYC and Melbourne where those teams are constantly at the top of the table in their respective leagues but I’m not sure about any of the other teams. The main team I’m thinking about is Girona FC (mostly because of Taty). They have been recently promoted to La Liga and will be completing against the best teams in Spain, but as of right now, they are definitely not a FC Barça, Atleti, or RM. Is that the goal? To make Girona a team of that size and caliber? Or is it mostly just a stepping stone for players and its goal is to stay in La Liga and not be relegated back down? And then there is the entirely different case where CFG is minority stakes in other clubs like Yokohama F Marinos or Sichuan Jiuniu FC. What are there goals with the minority stake clubs?

This is just meant to be a thought exercise and I know that no one here has the inside scoop on CFG’s plans and goals, so I’m curious of anyone else’s opinions.

TLDR: Is every team in the CFG family trying to be at the top of their specific league or are their some teams just meant to be player development and scouting teams (similar in regards to FC Dallas)?

I have wondered that myself. I believe they have stated their goal is for every team in the group to win and compete at the highest level, but it’s just hard to see a team like Girona making that leap in Spain.
TLDR I don't know.

 

[joe]

Thinking out loud and figured I’d drum up some conversation. I don’t really follow any other teams in the world except NYCFC so for the most part I don’t have a pulse on foreign leagues. So with the preface out of the way, what is everyone’s thoughts about CFG’s goals for purchasing clubs around the world? Obviously making money and investing. But is there goal to make each and every team a top of the table team in their own leagues? I understand MCFC is the flag ship so of course the most money and investment in the team is to win in order to make more money. But when you look at Girona FC, Montevideo City FC Torque, Mumbai City in India, is their goal to make championship teams to compete for their individual cups each year, or is it all about developing and purchasing talent to test at these levels to move them up the pipeline towards Mancity or to be sold for profit (Jack Harrison)? I see the cases of NYC and Melbourne where those teams are constantly at the top of the table in their respective leagues but I’m not sure about any of the other teams. The main team I’m thinking about is Girona FC (mostly because of Taty). They have been recently promoted to La Liga and will be completing against the best teams in Spain, but as of right now, they are definitely not a FC Barça, Atleti, or RM. Is that the goal? To make Girona a team of that size and caliber? Or is it mostly just a stepping stone for players and its goal is to stay in La Liga and not be relegated back down? And then there is the entirely different case where CFG is minority stakes in other clubs like Yokohama F Marinos or Sichuan Jiuniu FC. What are there goals with the minority stake clubs?

This is just meant to be a thought exercise and I know that no one here has the inside scoop on CFG’s plans and goals, so I’m curious of anyone else’s opinions.

TLDR: Is every team in the CFG family trying to be at the top of their specific league or are their some teams just meant to be player development and scouting teams (similar in regards to FC Dallas)?

I think winning for its own sake is like fourth or fifth on their list of priorities. But as part of the network we're fortunate that winning has some influence on the things above it. In no particular order, I would say those things above winning include benefitting Man City, sportswashing/reputation development, and money. I'm honestly surprised NYCFC hasn't been used as a "Man City B" (rehab assignments, minutes for young players, etc) since the first year. We're part of the development pipeline, obviously, but we haven't been getting players that are already part of Man City who aren't ready for prime time but need minutes.

 

[mgarbowski]

I think winning for its own sake is like fourth or fifth on their list of priorities. But as part of the network we're fortunate that winning has some influence on the things above it. In no particular order, I would say those things above winning include benefitting Man City, sportswashing/reputation development, and money. I'm honestly surprised NYCFC hasn't been used as a "Man City B" (rehab assignments, minutes for young players, etc) since the first year. We're part of the development pipeline, obviously, but we haven't been getting players that are already part of Man City who aren't ready for prime time but need minutes.

I think NYCFC is a high priority within the group (obviously MC is in its own class) because it's the USA and NYC. And I think they're playing a long game expecting a massive payoff on their MLS investment decades down the line. I also think they believe their structure and scouting gives them an edge to exploit within the MLS parity system, so they are working the angles and going for it.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I think NYCFC is a high priority within the group (obviously MC is in its own class) because it's the USA and NYC. And I think they're playing a long game expecting a massive payoff on their MLS investment decades down the line. I also think they believe their structure and scouting gives them an edge to exploit within the MLS parity system, so they are working the angles and going for it.

Yes. Exactly.

Also, they want to win, everywhere, and they want to develop talent and either move it up the chain of clubs or sell at a profit. They view these goals as being mutually reinforcing, so they don't have to choose one over the other.

 

[Fake Jew]

Thinking out loud and figured I’d drum up some conversation. I don’t really follow any other teams in the world except NYCFC so for the most part I don’t have a pulse on foreign leagues. So with the preface out of the way, what is everyone’s thoughts about CFG’s goals for purchasing clubs around the world? Obviously making money and investing. But is there goal to make each and every team a top of the table team in their own leagues? I understand MCFC is the flag ship so of course the most money and investment in the team is to win in order to make more money. But when you look at Girona FC, Montevideo City FC Torque, Mumbai City in India, is their goal to make championship teams to compete for their individual cups each year, or is it all about developing and purchasing talent to test at these levels to move them up the pipeline towards Mancity or to be sold for profit (Jack Harrison)? I see the cases of NYC and Melbourne where those teams are constantly at the top of the table in their respective leagues but I’m not sure about any of the other teams. The main team I’m thinking about is Girona FC (mostly because of Taty). They have been recently promoted to La Liga and will be completing against the best teams in Spain, but as of right now, they are definitely not a FC Barça, Atleti, or RM. Is that the goal? To make Girona a team of that size and caliber? Or is it mostly just a stepping stone for players and its goal is to stay in La Liga and not be relegated back down? And then there is the entirely different case where CFG is minority stakes in other clubs like Yokohama F Marinos or Sichuan Jiuniu FC. What are there goals with the minority stake clubs?

This is just meant to be a thought exercise and I know that no one here has the inside scoop on CFG’s plans and goals, so I’m curious of anyone else’s opinions.

TLDR: Is every team in the CFG family trying to be at the top of their specific league or are their some teams just meant to be player development and scouting teams (similar in regards to FC Dallas)?

I think that rebranding Torque as Montevideo City Torque was meant to project a vision greater then just a development team.

Historically the “it” city in the South American world has always been Buenes Aires. Now with rampant inflation and political instability a lot of Argentine dollars are beginning to flow to Montevideo. It’s probably hard to imagine now but with this rebrand I really do think that they are using Torque as a push for a CFG club one day winning Libertadores.

That being said I’d imagine CFG wants to avoid conflict of interest with its European clubs. No reason to attract any unnecessary eye balls.

 

[Kjbert]

If City went out tomorrow and bought the three best young players in South America with a blank check and placed them at NYCFC, that would do more for MLS than any DP since David Beckham

But they don’t

 

[mgarbowski]

Trouble in Palermo. The head coach and sporting director abruptly quit after the board fired multiple members of their staff.

Manager Of City Football Group's Palermo Resigns Following Tensions With New Owners

When Palermo were purchased by the City Football Group their fans had high hopes for the upcoming season. However, the club has now been left in chaos following the resignation of head coach Silvio Baldini and sporting director Renzo Castagnini.

www.si.com

 

[DeGrozz]

Trouble in Palermo. The head coach and sporting director abruptly quit after the board fired multiple members of their staff.

Manager Of City Football Group's Palermo Resigns Following Tensions With New Owners

When Palermo were purchased by the City Football Group their fans had high hopes for the upcoming season. However, the club has now been left in chaos following the resignation of head coach Silvio Baldini and sporting director Renzo Castagnini.

www.si.com

I'm usually not a nosey person, but I'd love to know the whole story here.

 

[VernonJohn]

This is kind of fascinating to me thinking about Dome leaving after a successful year, Rony getting out mid season (I know, I know, he wanted to stay but wanted to be close to family in Europe more…) Sir Company Man Cushing only getting the interim head coach moniker and Reyna (on to other challenges) saying aurevoir…

 

[mgarbowski]

This is kind of fascinating to me thinking about Dome leaving after a successful year, Rony getting out mid season (I know, I know, he wanted to stay but wanted to be close to family in Europe more…) Sir Company Man Cushing only getting the interim head coach moniker and Reyna (on to other challenges) saying aurevoir…

Some of this is a stretch IMO.
Reyna spent five seasons here (plus 1.5 years as prep) and had a chance to start fresh. Some people like building things more than running them forever. Maybe he wanted to see if he could build a winner without the CFG scouting and special deals. I think especially with SDs, and maybe outside of MCFC, CFG requires people who are willing to temper their ego and give up some control in return for lots of help and advantages. That has upsides and downsides. But you can't deny they won a lot of championships around the world. With 2 sporting directors in 9 years NYCFC has been pretty stable. Coaches not so much.

Torrent's departure was weird, but I've always had a low opinion of his temperament, and he clearly never got over the Arteta/GVB rumors and learning he was on a short leash in early 2019, but damn, he had led the team to 18 points in 19 games (over 2018-19) at that point. It was ridiculous to expect the club would not be looking at alternatives after that horrific slump. Boo-hoo it took time to sign a striker in early 2019. In 2018 he took the best first half team NYCFC ever had and ran it into the dirt.

I don't like Ronny leaving or midseason coach departures in general. I actually kind of hate it. But once they set the terms with PV, and added a buyout price clause to Ronny's contract, that ship sailed. The CFG devotion to letting coaches and players set the terms of when they leave - which lots of people support - has a significant downside in a league that both isn't top 5 and has an offset schedule. Generally the leave-when-you-want approach has both upsides and downsides, but IMO the midseason coach departure has no upside. I also agree about the interim issue, and I had hoped that elevating a coach from within would lead to a smoother transition (and to be fair the results so far aren't bad) but I don't like the instability of making him interim.

Now Palermo doesn't look good. The team went to pieces in 2019 over financial irregularities and was excluded from all professional leagues in Italy. They did some corporate jibber-jabber and started fresh in Serie D and moved up two years in a row to reach Serie B this year. Then CFG buys them, keeps the people in charge, but they quit about a month later, citing control issues. OTOH, for all I know, CFG will put in more CFG-type replacements and keep up the success.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Some of this is a stretch IMO.
Reyna spent five seasons here (plus 1.5 years as prep) and had a chance to start fresh. Some people like building things more than running them forever. Maybe he wanted to see if he could build a winner without the CFG scouting and special deals. I think especially with SDs, and maybe outside of MCFC, CFG requires people who are willing to temper their ego and give up some control in return for lots of help and advantages. That has upsides and downsides. But you can't deny they won a lot of championships around the world. With 2 sporting directors in 9 years NYCFC has been pretty stable. Coaches not so much.

Torrent's departure was weird, but I've always had a low opinion of his temperament, and he clearly never got over the Arteta/GVB rumors and learning he was on a short leash in early 2019, but damn, he had led the team to 18 points in 19 games (over 2018-19) at that point. It was ridiculous to expect the club would not be looking at alternatives after that horrific slump. Boo-hoo it took time to sign a striker in early 2019. In 2018 he took the best first half team NYCFC ever had and ran it into the dirt.

I don't like Ronny leaving or midseason coach departures in general. I actually kind of hate it. But once they set the terms with PV, and added a buyout price clause to Ronny's contract, that ship sailed. The CFG devotion to letting coaches and players set the terms of when they leave - which lots of people support - has a significant downside in a league that both isn't top 5 and has an offset schedule. Generally the leave-when-you-want approach has both upsides and downsides, but IMO the midseason coach departure has no upside. I also agree about the interim issue, and I had hoped that elevating a coach from within would lead to a smoother transition (and to be fair the results so far aren't bad) but I don't like the instability of making him interim.

Now Palermo doesn't look good. The team went to pieces in 2019 over financial irregularities and was excluded from all professional leagues in Italy. They did some corporate jibber-jabber and started fresh in Serie D and moved up two years in a row to reach Serie B this year. Then CFG buys them, keeps the people in charge, but they quit about a month later, citing control issues. OTOH, for all I know, CFG will put in more CFG-type replacements and keep up the success.

Good stuff.

Small data point. A guy in my Sunday morning league who is from S. America knew Claudio a bit. He said Claudio was waiting for Gio to transfer out of the academy before making a move. I think the provenance is pretty good, but certainly questionable. It rings true. Also not sure it weighs in on either side of why he left, but it's something to throw into the mix.

 

[mgarbowski]

Good stuff.

Small data point. A guy in my Sunday morning league who is from S. America knew Claudio a bit. He said Claudio was waiting for Gio to transfer out of the academy before making a move. I think the provenance is pretty good, but certainly questionable. It rings true. Also not sure it weighs in on either side of why he left, but it's something to throw into the mix.

Even without this tidbit I think it was easy to understand that Gio and the Academy factored into his decision to take the job and to stay until Gio left, without it necessarily being a primary driving force at any point.

 

[VernonJohn]

Some of this is a stretch IMO.
Reyna spent five seasons here (plus 1.5 years as prep) and had a chance to start fresh. Some people like building things more than running them forever. Maybe he wanted to see if he could build a winner without the CFG scouting and special deals. I think especially with SDs, and maybe outside of MCFC, CFG requires people who are willing to temper their ego and give up some control in return for lots of help and advantages. That has upsides and downsides. But you can't deny they won a lot of championships around the world. With 2 sporting directors in 9 years NYCFC has been pretty stable. Coaches not so much.

Torrent's departure was weird, but I've always had a low opinion of his temperament, and he clearly never got over the Arteta/GVB rumors and learning he was on a short leash in early 2019, but damn, he had led the team to 18 points in 19 games (over 2018-19) at that point. It was ridiculous to expect the club would not be looking at alternatives after that horrific slump. Boo-hoo it took time to sign a striker in early 2019. In 2018 he took the best first half team NYCFC ever had and ran it into the dirt.

I don't like Ronny leaving or midseason coach departures in general. I actually kind of hate it. But once they set the terms with PV, and added a buyout price clause to Ronny's contract, that ship sailed. The CFG devotion to letting coaches and players set the terms of when they leave - which lots of people support - has a significant downside in a league that both isn't top 5 and has an offset schedule. Generally the leave-when-you-want approach has both upsides and downsides, but IMO the midseason coach departure has no upside. I also agree about the interim issue, and I had hoped that elevating a coach from within would lead to a smoother transition (and to be fair the results so far aren't bad) but I don't like the instability of making him interim.

Now Palermo doesn't look good. The team went to pieces in 2019 over financial irregularities and was excluded from all professional leagues in Italy. They did some corporate jibber-jabber and started fresh in Serie D and moved up two years in a row to reach Serie B this year. Then CFG buys them, keeps the people in charge, but they quit about a month later, citing control issues. OTOH, for all I know, CFG will put in more CFG-type replacements and keep up the success.

Not clear what it is you think I'm stretching. I said Reyna wanted a new challenge and one of Rony's reasoning was stated as family.
I don't disagree with you about Dome, I can't say for sure one way or the other about his temperament. Whatever their motives were they chose to leave. So did Dome and now the Palermo boys.
I don't know what's going on at other CFG clubs and I'm not saying these departures necessarily mean anything but it is a curious look.

I will maintain that Cushing is a Company man through and through. He won't speak his mind at all like Dome or even Rony.

 

[DeGrozz]

This is kind of fascinating to me thinking about Dome leaving after a successful year, Rony getting out mid season (I know, I know, he wanted to stay but wanted to be close to family in Europe more…) Sir Company Man Cushing only getting the interim head coach moniker and Reyna (on to other challenges) saying aurevoir…

On one hand my thought is:

I never blame anyone for taking a new job. Everyone's situation is different, everyone's priorities are different, people value different things, etc... BUT, I think it's usually a red flag if people are consistently finding a good reason to leave and not finding a good reason to stay.

But on the other had, my thought is:

There's a lot of movement in football. Even in the riches of the EPL only 2 (Pep and Klopp - anyone else?) current managers have been with the same team for more than maybe 5 seasons.

I'd love a Schmetzer situation where you get the better part of a decade out of a very good manager, but situations like that are a rare exception, not the rule.

The footballing world is very complex...

 

[mgarbowski]

Not clear what it is you think I'm stretching.

Just that it seemed you were listing things that had reasons unrelated to poor CFG culture or management and trying to make a case that together they looked like a result of exactly that. If you weren't you weren't.

 

[Shwafta]

How many of our coaches have been here for a longer period of time?
How many players are here at least 3 years?
How much of the backroom is the same as it was 3 years ago?

Asking because I'm wondering, not because I'm trying to be cynical. Sometimes we choose to ignore that a lot of things are fine except for the things in the limelight, so I'm trying to determine if this is the case here as well.