City in the Boroughs - Manhattan

[JayH]

Great report guys. I am happy to hear that we are willing to use our structure to find ways to take advantage of MLS loopholes and/or MLS's practice of turning a blind eye when helpful to the league. If someone gives you a thread, unravel the sweater. We will see whether we, in fact, do that.

I also would love to see the team/organization play a large role in community activities, charitable endeavors, promotion of inclusion, etc. They have a great opportunity to do so, so it's encouraging to see their commitment to the pride celebration.

 

[daveh]

Agree with all the comments above- it was great to hear what was going on directly (even if not much new news) and that they are giving us an open forum to do so. There weren't that many questions from the audience as has been said but I feel that was partly due to the other events having come before and dealing with them, but they covered the topics I wanted to hear about.

I recall that there was discussion of the DPs and that they are looking at whether having a more balanced deeper squad would work better, and that if you get younger DPs (u23 I think) they are less of a hit on the salary cap. Didn't sound like there was any immediate plan to change anything there though.

 

[gbservis]

Great report guys. I am happy to hear that we are willing to use our structure to find ways to take advantage of MLS loopholes and/or MLS's practice of turning a blind eye when helpful to the league. If someone gives you a thread, unravel the sweater. We will see whether we, in fact, do that.

If the off season rumors of them trying to loan us martin demichelis while picking up enough of his salary to keep him out of DP range are to be believed they already tried and failed. Optimistically I think they will surely try another way to exploit the rules and the relationship. The question for me is, can they find a loophole that the MLS wont block the moment they try to use it.

 

[The Toe]

My brother and I saw Patricof at the team store on Saturday, I pointed him out and we left. And my brother insisted we go back and introduce ourselves, so we waited outside the team store and he came out, I made eye contact, smiled, he waved and came over to shake our hands and have a quick chat. What an awesome guy -- really embodies what a club president should be.

 

[LionNYC]

I recall that there was discussion of the DPs and that they are looking at whether having a more balanced deeper squad would work better, and that if you get younger DPs (u23 I think) they are less of a hit on the salary cap. Didn't sound like there was any immediate plan to change anything there though.

In 2016, a Designated Player that is 24-years-old or older during the league year will carry the Maximum Budget Charge ($457,500) unless the player joins his club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, in which case his budget charge will be $228,750.

A Designated Player 23 years old or younger during the league year will carry the following Young Designated Player Budget Charge:

• Ages 20 and younger: $150,000
• Ages 21-23: $200,000
• If such Designated Player joins the club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, he will carry the Mid-Season Youth Designated Player Salary Budget Charge of $150,000 regardless of age.

Clubs may “buy down” the budget charge of a Designated Player with General Allocation money. The reduced charge may not be less than $150,000. Please see below for Allocation Money parameters.

Each MLS Club shall be allotted two Designated Player slots. Clubs with two Designated Players may add a third Designated Player by paying $150,000 to the league which shall be split among clubs with two or fewer occupied Designated Player slots for use as General Allocation Money the following MLS Season. If a club uses the third Designated Player slot to sign a Young Designated Player, then the Club will not be obligated to pay the $150,000 charge.

 

[Goodfella]

My brother and I saw Patricof at the team store on Saturday, I pointed him out and we left. And my brother insisted we go back and introduce ourselves, so we waited outside the team store and he came out, I made eye contact, smiled, he waved and came over to shake our hands and have a quick chat. What an awesome guy -- really embodies what a club president should be.

agreed. Met him at Philly away and he's very personable and approachable.

 

[adam]

In 2016, a Designated Player that is 24-years-old or older during the league year will carry the Maximum Budget Charge ($457,500) unless the player joins his club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, in which case his budget charge will be $228,750.

A Designated Player 23 years old or younger during the league year will carry the following Young Designated Player Budget Charge:

• Ages 20 and younger: $150,000
• Ages 21-23: $200,000
• If such Designated Player joins the club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, he will carry the Mid-Season Youth Designated Player Salary Budget Charge of $150,000 regardless of age.

Clubs may “buy down” the budget charge of a Designated Player with General Allocation money. The reduced charge may not be less than $150,000. Please see below for Allocation Money parameters.

Each MLS Club shall be allotted two Designated Player slots. Clubs with two Designated Players may add a third Designated Player by paying $150,000 to the league which shall be split among clubs with two or fewer occupied Designated Player slots for use as General Allocation Money the following MLS Season. If a club uses the third Designated Player slot to sign a Young Designated Player, then the Club will not be obligated to pay the $150,000 charge.

Lots of incentive to sign U23 DPs! That should be our policy from here on out.

 

[Ulrich]

In 2016, a Designated Player that is 24-years-old or older during the league year will carry the Maximum Budget Charge ($457,500) unless the player joins his club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, in which case his budget charge will be $228,750.

A Designated Player 23 years old or younger during the league year will carry the following Young Designated Player Budget Charge:

• Ages 20 and younger: $150,000
• Ages 21-23: $200,000
• If such Designated Player joins the club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, he will carry the Mid-Season Youth Designated Player Salary Budget Charge of $150,000 regardless of age.

Clubs may “buy down” the budget charge of a Designated Player with General Allocation money. The reduced charge may not be less than $150,000. Please see below for Allocation Money parameters.

Each MLS Club shall be allotted two Designated Player slots. Clubs with two Designated Players may add a third Designated Player by paying $150,000 to the league which shall be split among clubs with two or fewer occupied Designated Player slots for use as General Allocation Money the following MLS Season. If a club uses the third Designated Player slot to sign a Young Designated Player, then the Club will not be obligated to pay the $150,000 charge.

So (3) overage DPs run a CAP hit of $1,372,500/year.

Having (3) 19-23 yo DPs would free up a lot of extra CAP space for other players:
(3) 21-23 = a CAP hit of $600K [or an additional $772,500 to spread around the rest of the roster]
(3) sub-20 = a CAP hit of $450K [or an additional 922,500 to spread around to the rest of the roster]

Holy crap that's a lot of extra $$$ to make a deep-ass team. The one caveat is that once the players hit age-related milestones, the cap will take a serious hit with their automatic increase, but then the club just transfers one of them at a big profit and the extra GAM buys the others down.

Don't we have a CAP guru on the team to be figuring this stuff out???? sheesh.....

 

[gbservis]

So (3) overage DPs run a CAP hit of $1,372,500/year.

Having (3) 19-23 yo DPs would free up a lot of extra CAP space for other players:
(3) 21-23 = a CAP hit of $600K [or an additional $772,500 to spread around the rest of the roster]
(3) sub-20 = a CAP hit of $450K [or an additional 922,500 to spread around to the rest of the roster]

Holy crap that's a lot of extra $$$ to make a deep-ass team. The one caveat is that once the players hit age-related milestones, the cap will take a serious hit with their automatic increase, but then the club just transfers one of them at a big profit and the extra GAM buys the others down.

Don't we have a CAP guru on the team to be figuring this stuff out???? sheesh.....

Getting quality 19-23 year old DPs is a lot easier said than done. What players are you aware of that meet the following criteria:

1. Between 19-23 years old
2. Are worth DP money
3. Want to play in the MLS

Items 1 and 2 are typically in serious conflict with item 3 for most up and coming players.

 

[LionNYC]

Getting quality 19-23 year old DPs is a lot easier said than done. What players are you aware of that meet the following criteria:

1. Between 19-23 years old
2. Are worth DP money
3. Want to play in the MLS

Items 1 and 2 are typically in serious conflict with item 3 for most up and coming players.

Guys riding the bench on top European leagues that don't want to be loaned to lower level teams in the same league or lower divisions.

 

[Ulrich]

Getting quality 19-23 year old DPs is a lot easier said than done. What players are you aware of that meet the following criteria:

1. Between 19-23 years old
2. Are worth DP money
3. Want to play in the MLS

Items 1 and 2 are typically in serious conflict with item 3 for most up and coming players.

A DP does not have to be a $6M player. SKC has Zusi and Besler as DPs for $7-800K; RB does the same. Not that I'm professing that's the price point to go for, but there are plenty of 19-23 yo players worth $750-2M that we could go after, types of guys that can't break into the 1st team but aren't shabby - just victims of numbers.

 

[adam]

Guys riding the bench on top European leagues that don't want to be loaned to lower level teams in the same league or lower divisions.

Also our particular team carries the carrot of being in the CFG system and a chance to join the mothership. I will not feel like a feeder team if we sight 19-21 year olds and send them to MCFC before they turn 23 to skirt the DP rules and sign 4-5 quality players with the additional $1mm in cap space. We could also sign 8 more $200,000-250,000 players plus our GAs (Harrison) and hopefully academy players from the rest of the cap, fill the rest with $60k-$100k players. That's a VERY DEEP team for the MLS. It would allow us to compete for the SS and any cups we play in. It would also take the pressure off the young DPs to carry the team. If I were to construct a roster using MLS players in the $200k-$250k range (keeping some of our guys that might not fit the 433 or make the best lineup, but make a point) it would look like this:

Stiven Mendoza ($207k) Dominic Oduro ($235k) CJ Sapong ($225k)

Fredrick Bravo ($110,000) Andrea Ivanschitz ($271,250) Andoni Iraola ($200,000)

Fredrick Brilliant ($299,667) Chance Myers ($225,000) Michael Parkhurst ($225,000) Kellyn Acosta ($220,000)

Sean Johnson (225,000)

We'd still have cap room for 2-3 more players in that salary range + our 3 young DPs + our GA and academy players.

Shame our club will never do that...

 

[roxfontaine]

Still waiting for a Westchester event, if anyone from the club is reading. They train in Westchester and I would be willing to bet that Westchester has more season ticket holders than at least 2 boroughs...

It has been brought up. Their #1 priority is the 5 boroughs. It is recognized that Westchester has a significant number of STHs and they said that they will look at doing something here in the future.

 

[Fantazma]

CFG pitched the idea in the past, with Anthony Koura of Ligue 2, he didn't want to come on loan to MLS so it never happened.

I'm sure the moment it happens MLS will lose its collective shit.

lol

but seriously...i thought there was already some sort of rule to prevent this in MLS....i mean im sure there are premiership teams that have players they loan out that maybe they would rather they go to an MLS team rather than a league 2 team in england? or at least MLS teams trying to get a couple of those loans? those premier league teams already pay the majority of their salary anyway

 

[NYCFCfan]

lol

but seriously...i thought there was already some sort of rule to prevent this in MLS

There isn't. As long as the players salary is below DP salary then they could do that as much as they'd like. The A-League created a rule to stop that after CFG just it with Caceres. MCFC bought him from an A-League team and loaned him to Melbourne.

 

[Fantazma]

There isn't. As long as the players salary is below DP salary then they could do that as much as they'd like. The A-League created a rule to stop that after CFG just it with Caceres. MCFC bought him from an A-League team and loaned him to Melbourne.

weren't they looking at someone in sweedish league? man city i mean....i think i remember someone mentioning this in twitter...and people felt that he would be loaned to nycfc

 

[mgarbowski]

lol

but seriously...i thought there was already some sort of rule to prevent this in MLS....i mean im sure there are premiership teams that have players they loan out that maybe they would rather they go to an MLS team rather than a league 2 team in england? or at least MLS teams trying to get a couple of those loans? those premier league teams already pay the majority of their salary anyway

We covered this here and I'm not going to look for it but I clearly remember that for loans to MLS from a related team, the player's full salary is counted against the cap even if the related outside team is in fact paying some or all of it.The rule was created for Chivas I believe. Loans from unrelated clubs are not affected, because if you can convince a third party to loan you a good player and pay his salary, more power to you. But, it seems the transfer fee might not be included so the potential loophole is to have MCFC pay the transfer fee then send him on a free transfer or loan to NYCFC and if we can afford the salary that's potentially OK, unless MLS changes the rules on the fly to block it. Which they might do.

 

[NYCFCfan]

We covered this here and I'm not going to look for it but I clearly remember that for loans to MLS from a related team, the player's full salary is counted against the cap even if the related outside team is in fact paying some or all of it.The rule was created for Chivas I believe. Loans from unrelated clubs are not affected, because if you can convince a third party to loan you a good player and pay his salary, more power to you. But, it seems the transfer fee might not be included so the potential loophole is to have MCFC pay the transfer fee then send him on a free transfer or loan to NYCFC and if we can afford the salary that's potentially OK, unless MLS changes the rules on the fly to block it. Which they might do.

CFG could easily find ways around this though in oddly structured contracts, signing bonuses, covering the players expenses, all things that NYCFC wouldn't be on the hook for.

 

[LionNYC]

CFG could easily find ways around this though in oddly structured contracts, signing bonuses, covering the players expenses, all things that NYCFC wouldn't be on the hook for.

#Cynergy

 

[Keith Putnam]

The question for me is, can they find a loophole that the MLS wont block the moment they try to use it.

Nah, Garber will just find a big European club to partner with the Galaxy so they can do the same thing, and all will be well.