Even Messi himself would look atrociously average with the starting lineup from Saturday. I don't think we can hold it against Bravo.
Formation Speculation
- Thread starter sbrylski
- Start date
Ha, I kind of doubt the part about Messi.
I think it's less a lineup thing and more a familiarity thing. As the pivot, he needs to know instinctively what kinda runs people are making and they need to know instinctively what kinda runs he's looking for in certain positions and based on his body language. They haven't had enough time to figure that stuff out yet.
Gonna be fun figuring him out. I don't know if we'll get a lot of finesse outta him but he looks tough as nails.
Pirlo and Lampard on the field at the same time kills us in a 4-3-3, its gotta be either or.
Talking heads were discussing a 3-5-2 formation. He certainly employed it from what I read the other night:
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Well we are four games into a six game offseason and haven't seen anything different yet. We shall see.
Interesting. Thought it was more of a 3-4-3 in attack, 4-3-2-1 in defense.Talking heads were discussing a 3-5-2 formation. He certainly employed it from what I read the other night:
One problem historically with a 3-5-2 is that against an effective 4-4-2, the left and right CB can't go to the opposition wingers because it leaves the lone remaining CB against 2 strikers, so it ends up being more of a 5-3-2 and it makes life very difficult for your wingers to get up and down the pitch and you concede a lot of territory in midfield.
I'm not sure how many teams played 4-4-2 last year or will play it this year though. Saw more 4-2-3-1s, which is a little more chill for a 3-5-2 to deal with. How does a 5 man midfield fare on a tiny YS pitch ...?
I agree with your analysis, and it's even worse against a 4-3-3. All three CB are stretched thin against a team with two wide wingers.
I prefer a 4-man backline as the base formation because it has the flexibility to play like a 3-man backline when necessary, with one of the fullbacks bombing up the sideline or pinching infront of the CBs to stop counterattacks.
Likewise.
Unfortunately, of the more conventional formations that start with a 4-man backline, we don't have the midfield destroyers / passers to play a 4-4-2 (like a Vieira in his prime, or a Tchani maybe at MLS level) or the type of target man up front (say a Drogba, or Kamara at MLS level) to play a 4-2-3-1. 4-3-3 is probably the best way to accommodate our current roster.
Will be fun to see how we build as our DPs age out, and as tactical trends shift, over the next couple of years.
If the rules are that Pirlo gets at least one midfield partner in front of the backline and Villa can't play up top alone, that leaves three formation options:
4-3-3
4-3-1-2
4-2-2-2
Vieira obviously prefers the 4-3-3. I've been quietly advocating the 4-3-1-2, mainly in order to get all four of our best midfielders on the field, plus Mullins.
The 4-2-2-2 would be very interesting as well and hasn't been discussed much:
Harrison and Shelton also slot in well as the flexible two midfielders underneath the strikers.
I think after all these pages of discussing possible formations though, it becomes obvious that there is no silver bullet.
Could make that Pirlo/Mix as well for Euros/rest/whatever as well.If the rules are that Pirlo gets at least one midfield partner in front of the backline and Villa can't play up top alone, that leaves three formation options:
4-3-3
4-3-1-2
4-2-2-2
Vieira obviously prefers the 4-3-3. I've been quietly advocating the 4-3-1-2, mainly in order to get all four of our best midfielders on the field, plus Mullins.
The 4-2-2-2 would be very interesting as well and hasn't been discussed much:
Harrison and Shelton also slot in well as the flexible two midfielders underneath the strikers.
I think after all these pages of discussing possible formations though, it becomes obvious that there is no silver bullet.
Not ready to but White over Mena yet, but I haven't gotten to see much of Ethan.
I like this in general, but as you say we've heard so little about a 442 I wonder if it would ever happen.
If the rules are that Pirlo gets at least one midfield partner in front of the backline and Villa can't play up top alone, that leaves three formation options:
4-3-3
4-3-1-2
4-2-2-2
Vieira obviously prefers the 4-3-3. I've been quietly advocating the 4-3-1-2, mainly in order to get all four of our best midfielders on the field, plus Mullins.
The 4-2-2-2 would be very interesting as well and hasn't been discussed much:
Harrison and Shelton also slot in well as the flexible two midfielders underneath the strikers.
I think after all these pages of discussing possible formations though, it becomes obvious that there is no silver bullet.
Getting Mullins on the field is a plus but I don't think it's worth the amount of speed being sacrificed to make it happen. Having Shelton and TT on the wings during the preseason has worked well and added the element of speed to the team that seemed to be lacking last season.
With Lamps (apparently) less than 100% and with a recent history of injury issues, could we see Mix/Pirlo/Poku as our midfield with Lamps as a super sub leading to Lamps/Mix/Poku after the substitution?
Bringing the formation discussion spurned by the following article to the formation thread: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/02/26/patrick-vieira-nycfc-mls-andrea-pirlo/
The bold is the money piece to me, and it makes a ton of sense. The team is going to play as a unit, not just have pockets of activity.
So it looks like this is Vieira's lineup:
I drew it more compact that usual to emphasize the shape. The point of the bolded lines above means that the space between Lampard, Mix, Brillant, and White won't be large. Pirlo will be covered on all sides for defensive help.
Neat. Let's see if it works.
The bold is the money piece to me, and it makes a ton of sense. The team is going to play as a unit, not just have pockets of activity.
So it looks like this is Vieira's lineup:
I drew it more compact that usual to emphasize the shape. The point of the bolded lines above means that the space between Lampard, Mix, Brillant, and White won't be large. Pirlo will be covered on all sides for defensive help.
Neat. Let's see if it works.
Last year's most apparent problem with every lineup was a horrendous lack of speed up front. I rate Taylor ahead of Shelton from what limited preseason minutes I've seen of each, so I'd put him out there (if not both) because the possibility of being beaten by a track race counter will have opponents on their back feet then entire game.Here is where I am leaning this year.
- I still like Villa and Poku playing from the outside to take advantage of their ability to run at defenders and lay off.
- The midfield pinches tight to allow the backs to provide width in the attack.
- Lampard presses the most forward, allowing Mix and Pirlo to lay back to distribute and defend or let Mix charge forward if there is an opportunity.
That's also a 5-3-2Talking heads were discussing a 3-5-2 formation. He certainly employed it from what I read the other night:
If Lampard is not fit enough to start then IMHO hes not fit enough to play. I would rather see T-Mac or Poku depending who starts for Lampard (probably T-Mac) in the super sub midfield role.
I'd actually be okay putting Poku on the left, but allow him to shift more towards the middle instead of Taylor. He isn't your typical wing, but I think pushing Mata up the left side while Poku pinches inside would allow both of excel and put our best players forward. Brillant will need to be very cautious and smart, however, but I don't think that will be a problem -- he seems to have the experience to be calculated in his defensive coverage and physically able enough to get the job done.
ETA: I think PV is going to do better with his subs than JK did. He knows where Pirlo will be vulnerable and won't be afraid to sub him out if we've got a lead. Plus the bench seems light years ahead of '15.
ETA: I think PV is going to do better with his subs than JK did. He knows where Pirlo will be vulnerable and won't be afraid to sub him out if we've got a lead. Plus the bench seems light years ahead of '15.
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That sounds like Lamp animosity more than soccer logic. Players coming back from injuries or minor knocks regularly come back for limited minutes. This is done pretty much everywhere.
Or I would rather have a healthy Poku who was our most dynamic player not named David Villa last year have playing time as our supersub over a 38 year old coming back from an injury?
Playing Poku benefits this team more than playing Lampard. Thats not animosity just a simple fact of where both are at this point in their careers. I know that we have to play Lampard but he shouldn't take minutes away from a younger guy that do a better job to help us win games if he is not 100%.
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