Scales Tipped Too Far? Maintaining Domestic Player Balance In Mls

[NYCFC 12th man]

I believe there's an inherent tension between having the best quality soccer league you can and ensuring domestic players (in this case both US and Canadian) can play and develop. This is due in part to the fact that players develop at different stages -- some in their teens and others sometime in their 20s. The Clint Dempseys and DeAndre Yedlins need their chances to play so that they can develop. These types of players are highly unlikely to get the opportunity to play oversees if they did not get their start professionally in MLS. And a player like Kyle Beckerman would probably not have contributed as well as he did in the World Cup if he hadn't played in MLS.
I don't know where this balance is in terms of the influx of foreigners to improve the quality of the domestic league (a larger labor pool will get you more qualified applicants) and getting US and Canadian players substantial minutes on the field (because these are the players who can represent the national team) but it's somewhere out there. I don't want MLS to become like the EPL in ALL respects because I have to believe that having so few English players in the Premier League diminishes the England team; I don't have an analysis to back this up, but this is what my gut says.
There are many other contributing factors that need to be addressed to improve domestic player development. For instance, I believe US and Canadian soccer academies need to do more to emulate other countries' successes with their youth teams and with their approaches to coaching. Some of Klinsmann's concerns with MLS quality -- relating to off and on the field matters, including four day rhythm, recovery time and how life off the field can influence a player's career -- need to be addressed as well.
With that said, while I haven't done an inventory of where the 20 MLS squads are at this point, I was disheartened watching Orlando City's inaugural match, with TWO Americans / Canadians on the field. NYCFC has been at 8 -- which is great -- and while I don't feel as if I have a "hard and fast" rule on the number of American / Canadian players, if the number goes below 5, I would start to get a little uneasy.
Also, I am NOT asking for a total shift the other way because playing alongside world class soccer players in MLS does make MLS players better by learning from them and having to constantly fight for a place in the team. David Villa is a tremendous role model for everyone in MLS.
I'm just trying to find the right balance and I am wondering whether the scales have tipped too far (at least for some clubs and hence for the league) and whether MLS has reached a point where there are too few domestic players on the field.
Also, I would feel differently about this issue if it was as easy for an American / Canadian to play anywhere overseas as it is to play in MLS, but from all accounts, this is absolutely not the case.
Perhaps my concerns are misplaced. If Klinsmann or Arena or another respected coach has spoken on this topic, I would love to hear what they have said.
How do others feel? Does anyone know if there are any MLS rules about the number of Americans / Canadians on the roster and on the field? (If you care about the USMNT or Canadian National Team...) what's the tipping point for you in terms of American / Canadian player development so that our pool of national team players can develop and improve and whether they are getting minutes in MLS?

 

[MikeDatTiger]

I believe there's an inherent tension between having the best quality soccer league you can and ensuring domestic players (in this case both US and Canadian) can play and develop. This is due in part to the fact that players develop at different stages -- some in their teens and others sometime in their 20s. The Clint Dempseys and DeAndre Yedlins need their chances to play so that they can develop. These types of players are highly unlikely to get the opportunity to play oversees if they did not get their start professionally in MLS. And a player like Kyle Beckerman would probably not have contributed as well as he did in the World Cup if he hadn't played in MLS.
I don't know where this balance is in terms of the influx of foreigners to improve the quality of the domestic league (a larger labor pool will get you more qualified applicants) and getting US and Canadian players substantial minutes on the field (because these are the players who can represent the national team) but it's somewhere out there. I don't want MLS to become like the EPL in ALL respects because I have to believe that having so few English players in the Premier League diminishes the England team; I don't have an analysis to back this up, but this is what my gut says.
There are many other contributing factors that need to be addressed to improve domestic player development. For instance, I believe US and Canadian soccer academies need to do more to emulate other countries' successes with their youth teams and with their approaches to coaching. Some of Klinsmann's concerns with MLS quality -- relating to off and on the field matters, including four day rhythm, recovery time and how life off the field can influence a player's career -- need to be addressed as well.
With that said, while I haven't done an inventory of where the 20 MLS squads are at this point, I was disheartened watching Orlando City's inaugural match, with TWO Americans / Canadians on the field. NYCFC has been at 8 -- which is great -- and while I don't feel as if I have a "hard and fast" rule on the number of American / Canadian players, if the number goes below 5, I would start to get a little uneasy.
Also, I am NOT asking for a total shift the other way because playing alongside world class soccer players in MLS does make MLS players better by learning from them and having to constantly fight for a place in the team. David Villa is a tremendous role model for everyone in MLS.
I'm just trying to find the right balance and I am wondering whether the scales have tipped too far (at least for some clubs and hence for the league) and whether MLS has reached a point where there are too few domestic players on the field.
Also, I would feel differently about this issue if it was as easy for an American / Canadian to play anywhere overseas as it is to play in MLS, but from all accounts, this is absolutely not the case.
Perhaps my concerns are misplaced. If Klinsmann or Arena or another respected coach has spoken on this topic, I would love to hear what they have said.
How do others feel? Does anyone know if there are any MLS rules about the number of Americans / Canadians on the roster and on the field? (If you care about the USMNT or Canadian National Team...) what's the tipping point for you in terms of American / Canadian player development so that our pool of national team players can develop and improve and whether they are getting minutes in MLS?

Each club has 8 international spots, so there is a roster limit.

I think right now, the pool of domestic players isn't sufficient enough to ensure the quality of soccer MLS needs to compete in the American landscape. If you went totally domestic, American eyes would just return to the EPL/La Liga/etc. Getting attention now creates tradition & roots, which US soccer needs and which will create the cash flow to better develop academies and development programs which will result in a better pool of players. So I'm ok with how it is right now. It's getting better, our systems are getting more sophisticated and getting better results, so let the growth continue naturally.

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

Each club has 8 international spots, so there is a roster limit.

I think right now, the pool of domestic players isn't sufficient enough to ensure the quality of soccer MLS needs to compete in the American landscape. If you went totally domestic, American eyes would just return to the EPL/La Liga/etc. Getting attention now creates tradition & roots, which US soccer needs and which will create the cash flow to better develop academies and development programs which will result in a better pool of players. So I'm ok with how it is right now. It's getting better, our systems are getting more sophisticated and getting better results, so let the growth continue naturally.

I think that limit is somewhat fungible because when I look at Orlando City's roster they have 18 non US and Canadian players on it. Perhaps green card status has something to do with this and has the potential to throw these numbers out of whack.

To reiterate, I am not advocating "totally domestic." I just cringe when there are just 2 Americans / Canadians on the field for a team for I fear what this may mean for our MNT player pools over the long haul.

 

[MikeDatTiger]

I think that limit is somewhat fungible because when I look at Orlando City's roster they have 18 non US and Canadian players on it. Perhaps green card status has something to do with this and has the potential to throw these numbers out of whack.

There's green card status plus the spots are tradeable. I know Orlando and NYCFC have gotten a few of those slots via trade. There are plenty of other loopholes.

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

To add to MikeDatTiger's points, aperfectring notes that in addition to green cards, there are potential anti-discrimination laws even though our players are not given, in most cases, equal footing abroad. Soccer academies, PDL, USL and NASL need to increase in importance to develop domestic players (for our national teams' sake). I hope Sunil Gulati, the USSF, the CSA and the MNT coaching staff from both countries are dedicating sufficient time to them.

 

[MagnusPax]

Just curious here, are you saying that domestic player limits are hampering competitiveness in MLS after 2 weeks of this season or have you been fans for awhile now?

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

Just curious here, are you saying that domestic player limits are hampering competitiveness in MLS after 2 weeks of this season or have you been fans for awhile now?

No. I was disturbed by the fact that we are seeing fewer American / Canadian players starting on some MLS teams. Orlando City had only 2 Americans / Canadians in its starting lineup (that seems really low to me); Orlando actually has 18 non-American / Canadian players on its 28 player roster.

I believe there's an inherent tension between having the best quality soccer league you can and ensuring domestic players (in this case both US and Canadian) can play and develop. I don't know where this balance is in terms of the influx of foreigners to improve the quality of the domestic league (a larger labor pool will get you more qualified applicants) and getting US and Canadian players substantial minutes on the field (because these are the players who can represent the national team) but it's somewhere out there. We could reach a point very soon where there are actually very few Americans / Canadians are playing in MLS; I personally do not believe this helps our National Team player pool in its development.

I am NOT asking for a total shift the other way because playing alongside world class "foreign" soccer players in MLS does make MLS players better by learning from them and having to constantly fight for a place in the team. David Villa is a tremendous role model for everyone in MLS.

I also realize that there are obstacles to addressing this matter. In addition to the green card loophole, there are potential anti-discrimination laws that come into play, even though, our players are not given equal footing abroad.

I guess this means that US soccer academies, PDL, USL and NASL need to increase in importance to develop domestic players (for our national teams' sake). I hope the USSF and the MNT coaching staff is dedicating sufficient time to these avenues; I don't really see this happening so I'm concerned.

We need to ensure that the next generation of "young" Dempseys, Yedlins and Beckermans are get quality playing opportunities and are able to develop. Hopefully this is clearer.

 

[Nicholas Constantino]

Yeah I'm not sure the numbers or anything, but I prefer to have leagues filled with players from that country.

 

[typicalcity]

Yeah I'm not sure the numbers or anything, but I prefer to have leagues filled with players from that country.

I'm afraid if that's what you want you will be watching a very poor standard of football wherever you are in the worlf

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

I'm afraid if that's what you want you will be watching a very poor standard of football wherever you are in the worlf

I disagree. Leagues in such countries as Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Germany, Italy, Mexico and Spain have a very high percentage of nationals playing in their league and their standard of football is just fine for me thank you. (I left other countries out with a high number of nationals but these are some of the better ones).

 

[BxLio91]

I'm not worried. The academies will be producing a higher standard of American and Canadian MLS players. I find it funny that everyone champions Crystal Meth SC as this great thing for American soccer yet like OP pointed out they only had 2 national starters.

 

[typicalcity]

I disagree. Leagues in such countries as Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Germany, Italy, Mexico and Spain have a very high percentage of nationals playing in their league and their on standard of football is just fine for me thank you. (I left other countries out with a high number of nationals but these are some of the better ones).

I disagree. Leagues in such countries as Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Germany, Italy, Mexico and Spain have a very high percentage of nationals playing in their league and their standard of football is just fine for me thank you. (I left other countries out with a high number of nationals but these are some of the better ones).

Yes most of those leagues have high rates of homegrown players but you have robben,bale,tevez all major stars of other leagues and from memory most of Argentina s team and Brazil's teams play abroad

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

Yes most of those leagues have high rates of homegrown players but you have robben,bale,tevez all major stars of other leagues and from memory most of Argentina s team and Brazil's teams play abroad

And I have zero problem with that happening. I'm not saying our major stars can't mostly or entirely be in other leagues; if that happens then so be it.

 

[Nicholas Constantino]

And I have zero problem with that happening. I'm not saying our major stars can't mostly or entirely be in other leagues; if that happens then so be it.

He is confusing the word majority with all I think.

 

[MagnusPax]

But I disagree with the premise, the vast majority of MLS is still USA/Canada, even if the majority of the starters are not. We still have scene (except for maybe today, wow) a gradual up swing in skill level in MLS matches. This is why I asked my question, if you had been a fan of MLS for at least a few years you could watch these few NYC games and say "wow, they are pretty decent, much better than the MetroStars used to be".

And Orlando isn't alone with its large amount of foreign players. Many other MLS teams are in the same boat. Domestic status, by marriage, time or birth, allow a lot of lee-way.

 

[Traction Engine]

You hear this argument often from English pundits, but I'm not sure there's any evidence it's true. By the time a player is ready to bid for a place the club will have a good sense of his potential, and if you're not good enough to beat out some French journeyman by your early 20s, you're not going to be making a real contribution to the national team. The USSF needs to focus on developing elite youth players, the rest will take care of itself.

 

[ferrarinycfc]

At the end of the day , MLS sole objective is to be a viable domestic competition, not to develop players for national teams. The quality of play is an ingredient in that objective.

MLS is finally getting better at developing players thru academies but more developed foreign talent will always be needed in a league like MLS.

 

[NYCFC 12th man]

But I disagree with the premise, the vast majority of MLS is still USA/Canada, even if the majority of the starters are not. We still have scene (except for maybe today, wow) a gradual up swing in skill level in MLS matches. This is why I asked my question, if you had been a fan of MLS for at least a few years you could watch these few NYC games and say "wow, they are pretty decent, much better than the MetroStars used to be".

And Orlando isn't alone with its large amount of foreign players. Many other MLS teams are in the same boat. Domestic status, by marriage, time or birth, allow a lot of lee-way.

The premise is there's an inherent tension between having the best quality soccer league you can and ensuring domestic players (in this case both US and Canadian) can play and develop; the question is whether it has begun to shift too much toward international players and maybe (with the inevitable green card slippage) it's time to reduce (i.e., not eliminate) the number of international roster spots; USSF and MLS should think creatively and out-of-the box.

When I made my comments, I was not wearing my MLS supporters hat; with my NYCFC supporters hat, like you, I expect NYCFC to provide the most talented and successful squad it can. I put that hat to the side for a moment and put on my USMNT / Canadian MNT hat. I've seen how young Beckermans, Dempseys, Yedlins, and others got their start by playing in Major League Soccer and firmly believe this opportunity provided the visibility to become part of the MNT player pool, from which they then got a chance to play with the National Team. If the Sounders outside back spots went to better foreign players, Yedlin's opportunity to play in MLS and the MNT might not have happened as quickly as it did (or potentially at all).

I also stated earlier and agree that player development needs to occur first in the US soccer academy leagues and lower leagues and then MLS opportunities will come, but if there are only 40 spots for American / Canadians in MLS that is not many and too few in my mind. A significant reduction in the number of domestic spots is what has happened in the English Premier League compared to the other top divisions in Europe, Mexico and South America and I prefer the latter as the model for MLS and not the former. I say this having always been an advocate for pushing for "international trade" but I fear the potential repercussions for the national team. Leagues in such countries as Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Germany, Italy, Mexico and Spain have a very high percentage of nationals playing in their league and their standard of football is just fine for me. Rome wasn't built in one day. I would rather grow a little more slowly in terms of quality of play if American and Canadian players will be given more opportunities to play over that period of time than to have the OCSC model be prevalent; this would not bode well for the US National player pool.

When I go to MLS games I always wear my "NYCFC" hat, but I also support the USMNT and I want young talented Americans to have the opportunity to grow their game in MLS with more than just 40 spots available.

 

[mrplow2000]

It is a fair point and one that is being looked at all over Europe.

The line is very hard to define.