I generally agree with this, but if the parkland in question is a filthy, fetid pool that's not usable for anything, the analysis is a little different.
Stadium Discussion
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I generally agree with this, but if the parkland in question is a filthy, fetid pool that's not usable for anything, the analysis is a little different.
I generally agree as well, but from everything I've read the USTA got a sweetheart deal while MLS/NYCFC has been shot down.
I went to one of the meeting (got a sweet "bring mls to queens" tshirt that i still wear) and man those NIMBY f**kers were ravenous. Completely at odds with having a logical dialogue. Whenever it was the pro-stadiums turn to talk they would just shout over them screaming non-sense. One of their favorite quips was in regards to replacing the parkland elsewhere they would argue if parkland is equal then why don't you build it in central park. To which i thought, well no, parkland is not equal central park >>> flushing meadows park. I grew up in whitestone my whole life, i absolutely never ever ever had a desire to go to FMP. I was always more proud of the stadium then the empty grass fields and rancid waters. And mind you i never ever when to baseball/tennis games, so you can't say im some elitist who wanted to go to high end sports events over enjoying public land. I couldn't help but think who the hell are these people, where are they coming from, because I see more people in this room then I ever saw using the park on a non-holiday weekend.
A couple things...since it's a down day.
Not to be the bad guy...but if I lived in a spot right next to the option of a new stadium or a realistically maintained parkland, I'd oppose the stadium. Maybe not go to any meetings or anything, but I would be against it. Call me a prick, but I'd support it anywhere as long as it didn't negatively effect me. That's the thing though, whatever they do will effect someone negatively and will create opposition. There are plenty of crap-holes around the city that would be better off developed. And most of them are currently being or will be developed. It is not a matter of where for us...it is a matter of how much they are willing to spend. This is NYC, not Minnesota. The real estate market here is it's own economy.
The best thing about YS though is that it is made to handle 50k a game, so we have the luxuries of less lines and more room. If you've ever been to a packed RBA event then you understand. You can't park, the mass transit sucks, it takes 20+ minutes to buy a beer or food, god forbid you have to go to the bathroom. As great as it is viewing and atmosphere wise...there is no wonder the place is half full. I wouldn't go either. Don't get me wrong, playing in a baseball stadium really kills the vibe and our vibe is pretty damn sweet despite the fact. One can only imagine what it would be like in a real place. But I'd rather stay where we are than go far. It would loose everything that they have going for them. There is a major appeal with this club cause it's in NYC. They can get 80k for an international game at Met Life, so a proper run club could do well in a SSS in that complex somewhere. Met Life is even closer to midtown Manhattan than most other spots in the boroughs. That is not the point. The appeal is being a true NYC team with the closest approximately to Manhattan as possible. If that can't happen, than I would opt to stay in YS.
Not to be the bad guy...but if I lived in a spot right next to the option of a new stadium or a realistically maintained parkland, I'd oppose the stadium. Maybe not go to any meetings or anything, but I would be against it. Call me a prick, but I'd support it anywhere as long as it didn't negatively effect me. That's the thing though, whatever they do will effect someone negatively and will create opposition. There are plenty of crap-holes around the city that would be better off developed. And most of them are currently being or will be developed. It is not a matter of where for us...it is a matter of how much they are willing to spend. This is NYC, not Minnesota. The real estate market here is it's own economy.
The best thing about YS though is that it is made to handle 50k a game, so we have the luxuries of less lines and more room. If you've ever been to a packed RBA event then you understand. You can't park, the mass transit sucks, it takes 20+ minutes to buy a beer or food, god forbid you have to go to the bathroom. As great as it is viewing and atmosphere wise...there is no wonder the place is half full. I wouldn't go either. Don't get me wrong, playing in a baseball stadium really kills the vibe and our vibe is pretty damn sweet despite the fact. One can only imagine what it would be like in a real place. But I'd rather stay where we are than go far. It would loose everything that they have going for them. There is a major appeal with this club cause it's in NYC. They can get 80k for an international game at Met Life, so a proper run club could do well in a SSS in that complex somewhere. Met Life is even closer to midtown Manhattan than most other spots in the boroughs. That is not the point. The appeal is being a true NYC team with the closest approximately to Manhattan as possible. If that can't happen, than I would opt to stay in YS.
"realistically maintained parkland" - I visit FMP 2 or 3 times a year and the place is a dump. It is not maintained by a long shot.
I didn't mention any specific place, I was talking about parkland in general.
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NYCFC should offer to provide a grounds-keeping/security/whatever service for the entire park in exchange for the right to purchase a small slice of the park for a stadium at market or above-market prices. Somebody linked to an article a couple days ago about the USTA doing something similar as part of their facilities expansion, but I'm guessing that CFG has more resources for this than the USTA.
How bout the USTA moves to Florida where they belong and stops squatting on our parkland and getting tax breaks and sweetheart deals! How many major events do they hold there a year? One??? And you can't train there 25% of the year because of the weather. Where do all the US tennis stars come from? Florida! That's where you can train 365. Move them to Miami, Palm Springs, or West Palm Beach. It's insane they helped dictate what happened to our soccer team.
There are ways to design a soccer specific stadium with a smaller capacity without those problems. Just as a for instance, when I was watching the Querétaro/DC United CCL match the other night, they were talking about or maybe I was reading about elsewhere, Estadio Corregidora. It was one of the stadiums used to host the '86 World Cup and it's able to fill/empty out in less than 15 minutes. Capacity was originally 32,130 and was expanded to 35,575. Supposed to be regarded as one of the best in Mexico. I'm sure more knowledgeable folks could think of other examples
Good point. I'm talking about "actual" parkland. Not a fetid swamp. Open space in NYC is hard to come by. I would actually say there should be MORE open space in NYC. Swamps don't count.
Quiero que el estadio en el Bronx
Quiero que el estadio en el Bronx
Quiero que el estadio en el Bronx
The dream of our 42nd street stadium is dead. UN is building south of 42nd in that playground next to the ConEd empty lot. Can assume there's not enough space now.
Parks in the outer boroughs aren't really maintained at adequate levels because the parks (like central park) in more affluent parts of the city get a ton of private donations. Equity in parks is a big issue and the fact that a park isn't maintained in less affluent areas shouldn't be a reason to build on said park. More money should be spend maintaining parks in less affluent areas.
Too bad we can't take some of the parkland and promise to maintain the other parkland. If the parkland is overrun and useless, I am OK with taking it. But we should be footing the cost of maintaining parkland.
The parks get equal shares of the parks dept budget regardless of location. The problem is the overall budget is too small. The parks you mention in the affluent areas that receive donations have conservancies that raise money and maintain the said parks - until the Central Park conservancy was started, the city parks dept didn't really do much and let it fall into disrepair. Currently, that conservancy and the prospect park conservancy have agreed to spend some of their reserves on other parks. If anything, the City should simply tell CFG to start a citywide conservancy for underfunded parks if they get park space to build on.
Good advertising opportunity too. At the entrance to every park they could put a sign that said: "This park is maintained in part by the City Football Group and New York City Football Club, for a beautiful New York."
Something like this, and you can have the supporters go and do a park clean-up every spring. Great, great PR.
Since the discussion has veered in the direction of FMCP, everyone should read the article below which does an excellent job of explaining all the forces at play: http://www.bigsoccer.com/blog/2013/04/10/field-of-schemes
(Kudos to Bill Archer who is always a fantastic read, especially around FIFA issues).
Basically MLS got screwed by a bunch of nimbys and the USTA and the Wilpons getting their way. No doubt putting the stadium over that pond and reworking all the soccer fields and helping to the upkeep of the park would have been a net positive for FMCP, not even counting the extra parkland that would have been built somewhere else.
(Kudos to Bill Archer who is always a fantastic read, especially around FIFA issues).
Basically MLS got screwed by a bunch of nimbys and the USTA and the Wilpons getting their way. No doubt putting the stadium over that pond and reworking all the soccer fields and helping to the upkeep of the park would have been a net positive for FMCP, not even counting the extra parkland that would have been built somewhere else.
Article for April 10, 2013. So sad that in 3 years probably the most logical spot, that could do some good for a city park is not even an option anymore. And the 2 big squatters; USTA and the Mets, they still have not lifted a finger to help the park. In fact, they have only taken in the form of USTA expansion and the proposed mall at Willets Point (and who knows the future of that project?).
