Stadium Discussion
- Thread starter Gene
- Start date
While we wait and wonder where the stadium will be be, what are people's thoughts on capacity?
Our average at YS is around 26-28k, but for a big game we can pull high 30s or even 40k.
Are we still a novelty and are our crowds temporarily high? Or are they low at the moment and we could end up with higher crowds when we get some success?
There's nothing worse than a huge stadium that only gets full one or two times a year.
I reckon something in the 30k range would be ideal.
Our average at YS is around 26-28k, but for a big game we can pull high 30s or even 40k.
Are we still a novelty and are our crowds temporarily high? Or are they low at the moment and we could end up with higher crowds when we get some success?
There's nothing worse than a huge stadium that only gets full one or two times a year.
I reckon something in the 30k range would be ideal.
I recommend pages 116-134 for all of our opinions on that subject. (I jest about the page numbers, but it's in there)
Where are those table of contents? @NYCFCIntern?
Are you be willing to play another season at Yankee Stadium when they have to expand in 5 years?
I think they should just go do 40k right off the bat. By the time it's finished we'll be popular enough to average 30k+ a match anyways.
Edit: At 40k it could be used during a World Cup too.
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Let's talk about stadium design.
If I could have my choice of architects I'd choose Herzog and de Meuron.
You might know one of their buildings, 56 Leonard, being built in Tribeca.
Of these new super tall, super expensive, buildings being built I think this one is most interesting.
They also did an interesting parking garage in Miami that, on a personal level, made me look at parking garages as works of architecture rather than simply infrastructure.
They also have plenty of experience designing stadiums.
Their most well known is one you should recognize. It's Bayern's stadium, the Allianz Arena.
Here's another you'll recognize, the Birds Nest in Beijing.
They're also designing Chelsea's new stadium.
Does it look like a slinky? Sure. Is it also a greatly original design? Yes.
They also designed what I consider to be the most beautiful stadium in the world (of course, I haven't seen them all.)
The most important thing to me about all of these stadiums is that they look entirely different. They're individual pieces of art and I think one in the boroughs would add to the unparalleled collection of architecture that is New York City.
If I could have my choice of architects I'd choose Herzog and de Meuron.
You might know one of their buildings, 56 Leonard, being built in Tribeca.
Of these new super tall, super expensive, buildings being built I think this one is most interesting.
They also did an interesting parking garage in Miami that, on a personal level, made me look at parking garages as works of architecture rather than simply infrastructure.
They also have plenty of experience designing stadiums.
Their most well known is one you should recognize. It's Bayern's stadium, the Allianz Arena.
Here's another you'll recognize, the Birds Nest in Beijing.
They're also designing Chelsea's new stadium.
Does it look like a slinky? Sure. Is it also a greatly original design? Yes.
They also designed what I consider to be the most beautiful stadium in the world (of course, I haven't seen them all.)
The most important thing to me about all of these stadiums is that they look entirely different. They're individual pieces of art and I think one in the boroughs would add to the unparalleled collection of architecture that is New York City.
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Here's our attendance so far:
I think 30,000 for a new stadium would be fine based on what we've done so far. That could change, of course. We only had two dates over 40,000, and one of those was opening day. Not counting that match, our three highest dates were all against NJRB. Not sure we'd need 40,000 seats considering we've only gone over 30,000 six times, and over 35,000 three times.
And besides, who cares about having room for all those extra NJ fans two or three times per year? They can stay home and watch on TV.
I think 30,000 for a new stadium would be fine based on what we've done so far. That could change, of course. We only had two dates over 40,000, and one of those was opening day. Not counting that match, our three highest dates were all against NJRB. Not sure we'd need 40,000 seats considering we've only gone over 30,000 six times, and over 35,000 three times.
And besides, who cares about having room for all those extra NJ fans two or three times per year? They can stay home and watch on TV.
I like those as well, but the working assumption is that Populous will design our stadium. CFG used them for he Etihad redo in Manchester and there are rumors they've been in contact about NYCFC as well. Populous also did the MLS SSS in Houston and KC.
You are forgetting the bounce in STH we will get with a real stadium with intimate sight lines, plus we will get a big bump after we win the Cup this year.Here's our attendance so far:
I think 30,000 for a new stadium would be fine based on what we've done so far. That could change, of course. We only had two dates over 40,000, and one of those was opening day. Not counting that match, our three highest dates were all against NJRB. Not sure we'd need 40,000 seats considering we've only gone over 30,000 six times, and over 35,000 three times.
And besides, who cares about having room for all those extra NJ fans two or three times per year? They can stay home and watch on TV.
And as I've mentioned before, no owner will want to go through the DOB/zonal/community board process to expand a stadium only 5 years after doing it the first time. It's also cheaper to build it a bit bigger to begin with then to pay for mobilization costs twice. That and the opportunity to snag the extra ticket sales & concessions.
At the very minimum it needs to be 35k with the ability to expand to 40k. Best bet is to start with 40k and be able to compete with the meadowlands for international games & tournaments.
I'll grant you the bounce possibilities, but do we know for a fact that those things happen based on other teams' attendance numbers? I just think 30k is safer and maybe a lot cheaper then 40k, and if we go with an "easily" expandable 30k we may be a lot better off than with a 60% filled 40,000 seat stadium.
We know we can do 25k with ease for almost every match. I think I'd rather have 17 30k sellouts in a row after we win the cup rather than a 40k stadium that's never full.
Maybe I'll look at Seattle and Portland and see what their attendance is like. Maybe LA, too. The big teams. Philadelphia has a SSS stadium, so maybe I'll gather their numbers too, or Columbus.
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Trust me, nothing is "easily expandable" and 30k is not a lot cheaper than 40k. On an average cost basis for materials and labor, the 40k is the way to go.
And what's the difference having an open end of a stadium and attaching a large marketing banner over the unsold seats??? Flexibility. The ambiance is the same either way, but the ability to flex the space is monumental.
Isn't that exactly what Atlanta is planning to do? Marketing banners over unused sections. Yes, the Falcons will play there too, but who the hell knows, I'd welcome the Jets if it didn't affect our site lines and they were the tenant.
Yeah. I know. Populous is just so boring.
Have you seen Minnesota's stadium?
I literally could not imagine a more boring stadium. It's like someone was told to design a modern stadium and went with the first thing that popped into their head.
Here's another on a larger scale.
Just a big boring glass wave.
Tottenham's is better but still nothing to write home about.
When they actually try to do something interesting it ends up kind of ugly.
Like this.
Sorry Houston.
Occasionally they produce something with some merit.
Still pretty boring, though.
I think the Populous portfolio is slightly worse than your fave, but not by that much. Going through them both in order:
Allianz is ugly by day and gorgeous lit up at night.
Bird's Nest is lovely.
Chelsea is ugly.
And the box of sticks is an abomination.
For Populous:
Minnesota is lovely.
Tottenham meh.
Brazil ugly.
You chose a truly bad image for Houston which can look much better:
And the Olympic Stadium is not attractive.
I'd like a similar structure of Yankee Stadium. The materials, the grand hall all around the stadium but with some sort of roof.
It's not the worst thing but the orange isn't flattering
Populous can do arenas pretty well.
I don't know how I feel about this one, actually.
Houston really does vary image by image. I agree with you on all of these actually. I like Bristol and undecided about the last one.
