Stadium Discussion

[canchon]

Not relevant to our stadium per se, but Red Bulls lost their stadium to Harrison because of some tax issues when it was first set up, and they are now leasing it for 40 years.

http://www.theobserver.com/2016/07/town-scores-red-bull-revenues/

Also buried in there is that the stadium's new owner, Hudson County Improvement Authority (HCIA) has the right to hold up to 48 "public use events" per year in the stadium. Not sure exactly what this means, but that means that they can use the stadium 48 times for events per year? Whoa. Can't wait until RBNJ isn't happy because they schedule some event that affects the field / scheduling.

 

[gbservis]

In any match that matters and/or would be a big draw, they are almost certainly going to go with metlife stadium and its 80k+ seating so as to milk the most money out of the match. Like RBA, we wouldn't be in consideration either with a 40k stadium.

Depends on what you define as a match that matters. If you are talking about world cup games or Copa america or Concacaf knock out rounds then yes metlife will get them. But if you are just looking to make money, we could poach a number of games from a variety of venues in the area. A number of games have been played in a half full Metlife because RBA was slightly too small. Teams are so desperate to play friendlies in NYC proper they have been shoehorning stuff into baseball stadiums long before NYCFC.

Only looking back to 2013 had our hypothetical stadium existed we probably would have gotten a large share of the following:

Hosted by RBA (attendance):
2013 - Concacaf gold cup group stage 2 games (18k, 20k)
2013 - USWNT vs South Korea (19k)
2013 - USMNT vs Turkey (26K)
2014 - Bayern vs. Guadalajara (25k)
2015 - USWNT vs South Korea (26.4k)
2015 - Brazil vs Costa Rica (19.6K)
2015 - Colombia vs. Peru (24.8K)
2015- USMNT vs Costa Rica (25K)

Yankee Stadium
2013 - MCFC vs Chelsea (39k)
2013 - Spain vs Ireland (39k)
2014 - Liverpool vs MCFC (49K)

Citi Field
Israel vs Hondurous (26k)

 

[EganSoccerWords]

They can only re-take it if they either pay the back taxes or buy it out as a "lease payment". So for all intents and purposes, the stadium belongs to Harrison, and Red Bulls have a least until 2038 with 5 year options until 2058.

The whole tax thing though is way over my head so perhaps we can get some financial experts in here to explain what the hell went on.

"Red Bull has the right “to re-take ownership of the stadium … at any time during its lease term” in which case the town would become the land owner and Red Bull would pay either full taxes on the stadium or a lease payment, whichever is higher."

I read that as they would only pay taxes (or a lease payment) after they re-took ownership. The rest of the tax issue really lost me though.

 

[Rimil]

Depends on what you define as a match that matters. If you are talking about world cup games or Copa america or Concacaf knock out rounds then yes metlife will get them. But if you are just looking to make money, we could poach a number of games from a variety of venues in the area. A number of games have been played in a half full Metlife because RBA was slightly too small. Teams are so desperate to play friendlies in NYC proper they have been shoehorning stuff into baseball stadiums long before NYCFC.

Only looking back to 2013 had our hypothetical stadium existed we probably would have gotten a large share of the following:

Hosted by RBA (attendance):
2013 - Concacaf gold cup group stage 2 games (18k, 20k)
2013 - USWNT vs South Korea (19k)
2013 - USMNT vs Turkey (26K)
2014 - Bayern vs. Guadalajara (25k)
2015 - USWNT vs South Korea (26.4k)
2015 - Brazil vs Costa Rica (19.6K)
2015 - Colombia vs. Peru (24.8K)
2015- USMNT vs Costa Rica (25K)

Yankee Stadium
2013 - MCFC vs Chelsea (39k)
2013 - Spain vs Ireland (39k)
2014 - Liverpool vs MCFC (49K)

Citi Field
Israel vs Hondurous (26k)

that's some good leg work you did.

We would still get all the RBA matches with a 25k stadium. And the smaller international friendlies. The bigger club friendlies are money grabs I would venture to guess 35k is needed but might work at 30k.

But again I ask, why do we need this at the club level? bragging rights? Does YS brag that it got MCFC vs CHE? They advertise it up to when its played but I doubt its a lasting source of pride for them. How as a NYCFC STH should trying to get these matches take priority in determining our stadium size? For me, it would be one of the last items to consider. Don't put the stadium on the border or Nassau or Westchester because you can get to 40k sized stadium when there is a 25k stadium in manhattan to be had ( or even just 20k). That's my opinion.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Again, you don't have to sell out a game in order to have a terrific atmosphere. It just has to be crowded enough that everyone has people around them and there is plenty of noise. Building to 75-80% on the average day accomplishes that and allows for us to grow into the new building. We don't want to be one of these teams that artificially caps their attendance by building the stadium too small.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

that's some good leg work you did.

We would still get all the RBA matches with a 25k stadium. And the smaller international friendlies. The bigger club friendlies are money grabs I would venture to guess 35k is needed but might work at 30k.

But again I ask, why do we need this at the club level? bragging rights? Does YS brag that it got MCFC vs CHE? They advertise it up to when its played but I doubt its a lasting source of pride for them. How as a NYCFC STH should trying to get these matches take priority in determining our stadium size? For me, it would be one of the last items to consider. Don't put the stadium on the border or Nassau or Westchester because you can get to 40k sized stadium when there is a 25k stadium in manhattan to be had ( or even just 20k). That's my opinion.

its 100% about money. our stadium is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars and nycfc is going to use it probably less than 30 times a year. look at all the ways that the yankees and mets both use their stadium and they get to use it at least 81 times a year.

the other thing is growth. we could probably do well in a 25 to 30k stadium but that is short sighted. cfg bought this team because they believe soccer is going to take off in popularity. most of us became sth to get in on the ground floor. the only way i am happy with a 25 to 30k stadium is if we have the option to expand later.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I will add that I've always been struck by the difference between pro teams, which often throw away a 20-30 year old stadiums like a weekend hook up, and college teams, which like to expand and upgrade existing facilities. The later is often more cost effective - especially if you have been anticipating the need. It also leads to more quirky, charming stadiums, with lots of history. Whatever size we build, there should be plans and accommodations to eventually build it up.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I will add that I've always been struck by the difference between pro teams, which often throw away a 20-30 year old stadiums like a weekend hook up, and college teams, which like to expand and upgrade existing facilities. The later is often more cost effective - especially if you have been anticipating the need. It also leads to more quirky, charming stadiums, with lots of history. Whatever size we build, there should be plans and accommodations to eventually build it up.

This is what happens when you have to pay for your own stadium vs. screwing the taxpayers like NFL teams.

 

[mgarbowski]

I will add that I've always been struck by the difference between pro teams, which often throw away a 20-30 year old stadiums like a weekend hook up, and college teams, which like to expand and upgrade existing facilities. The later is often more cost effective - especially if you have been anticipating the need. It also leads to more quirky, charming stadiums, with lots of history. Whatever size we build, there should be plans and accommodations to eventually build it up.

This is what happens when you have to pay for your own stadium vs. screwing the taxpayers like NFL teams.

Most big college teams are state owned institutions. The public subsidy is different from the NFL, but very much there.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Most big college teams are state owned institutions. The public subsidy is different from the NFL, but very much there.

Sure but Penn State is not blackmailing State College into building a billion dollar stadium but saying they will move to Harrisburg.

 

[mgarbowski]

Sure but Penn State is not blackmailing State College into building a billion dollar stadium but saying they will move to Harrisburg.

Whatevs. When the government takes my money to build sports arenas, it doesn't matter to me how it came to be. Both the NFL and NCAA are corrupt, but we're getting OT so I'll drop it if you want to have last word..

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Whatevs. When the government takes my money to build sports arenas, it doesn't matter to me how it came to be. Both the NFL and NCAA are corrupt, but we're getting OT so I'll drop it if you want to have last word..

Stadium Thread never gets off topic sir.

 

[Ulrich]

Most big college teams are state owned institutions. The public subsidy is different from the NFL, but very much there.

It's called the Boosters Club at each school. Trust me, those folk get zinged with money "requests" all the time, and they pretty much have to chip in to hold their seats.

New expansion, get the boosters to pay for it. New coach, get the boosters to buy out the old one's contract. New practice facility, get the boosters to pay for it.

 

[Taurus]

I think NYCFC would definitely want to build something larger then RB arena, so that automatically would make it larger then 28k. I hope we build for 30k and it does not necessarily need to be expandable. I like the idea of keeping the crowd smaller even if we would be able to sell more making it a "premium" sporting event for marketing purposes and leaning more towards STH. I don't think CFG is interested in trying to attract FIFA sanctioned matches. Just my opinion.

 

[Taurus]

I just want to how much it is going to cost for my name engraved brick?

 

[mgarbowski]

It's called the Boosters Club at each school. Trust me, those folk get zinged with money "requests" all the time, and they pretty much have to chip in to hold their seats.

New expansion, get the boosters to pay for it. New coach, get the boosters to buy out the old one's contract. New practice facility, get the boosters to pay for it.

Thanks I never heard of booster clubs.

 

[adam]

I just want to how much it is it going to cost for my name engraved brick?

Haha. Yeah can't wait for that. It's taking so long maybe they were referring to our tombstones.

 

[JayH]

High schools have boosters too.

 

[Ulrich]

Thanks I never heard of booster clubs.

That's not to say the Boosters foot the entire bill for everything; the school also kicks in money directly and fundraises via their chancellor and trustees, but the Boosters have lots of deep pocketed alumni that eat/sleep/breath their college football team.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

that's some good leg work you did.

We would still get all the RBA matches with a 25k stadium. And the smaller international friendlies. The bigger club friendlies are money grabs I would venture to guess 35k is needed but might work at 30k.

But again I ask, why do we need this at the club level? bragging rights? Does YS brag that it got MCFC vs CHE? They advertise it up to when its played but I doubt its a lasting source of pride for them. How as a NYCFC STH should trying to get these matches take priority in determining our stadium size? For me, it would be one of the last items to consider. Don't put the stadium on the border or Nassau or Westchester because you can get to 40k sized stadium when there is a 25k stadium in manhattan to be had ( or even just 20k). That's my opinion.

Having 40k seats in an SSS in NYC makes you one of the gems of the soccer universe. And I would go to stuff there I wouldn't otherwise.

I think you're fighting the hypo with the in/out element.