Stadium Discussion

[NickFromAstoria]

Would CFG want to sub-lease the space instead of buy outright??? Seems like if we're going to foot the bill for a mega structure, we'd want to own the land under it and not have a 99 year lease (or whatever they write it up as). A State-of-the-Art facility will only be that for about 5-10-20 years and then the new car smell is gone - I just can't see the team wanting to put themselves in a position where either a lease could run out (if it's short) and we're sweating bullets, or we have such a long lease that we can't get out (as opposed selling) and are stuck in a too small/too old facility.

I mean, that's the arrangement the Yankees have had with the city for the last 40 years (they have a 99 year lease on Yankee Stadium from the city, I believe) and it's worked out for them so far. Plus to take full title to that land would require action by the state legislature since I think it's still technically mapped as parkland so you'd be adding more layers of complication by looking to buy it outright.

 

[Ulrich]

I mean, that's the arrangement the Yankees have had with the city for the last 40 years (they have a 99 year lease on Yankee Stadium from the city, I believe) and it's worked out for them so far. Plus to take full title to that land would require action by the state legislature since I think it's still technically mapped as parkland so you'd be adding more layers of complication by looking to buy it outright.

Ah, thanks! That makes sense. Didn't realize the Yankees had a lease - I thought they were complete masters of their domain.

 

[NickFromAstoria]

Ah, thanks! That makes sense. Didn't realize the Yankees had a lease - I thought they were complete masters of their domain.

If I recall, this was the method that allowed them to take advantage of the tax-free bonds - have the city be the one listed on the deed to the stadium, but sign a lease that makes you the sole tenant that's responsible for construction, operation, etc. (I'm glad we've got posters like Kjbert that can explain the mechanics of the bonds, because that's beyond me)

EDIT: Here's the relevant portion of the lease, if anyone's interested. (I had to grab a screenshot since I don't think you can link to it directly in the ACRIS system)

 

[Kjbert]

If I recall, this was the method that allowed them to take advantage of the tax-free bonds - have the city be the one listed on the deed to the stadium, but sign a lease that makes you the sole tenant that's responsible for construction, operation, etc. (I'm glad we've got posters like Kjbert that can explain the mechanics of the bonds, because that's beyond me)

Happy to help. The Yankees are a private organization. They may be paying interest on the bonds, but the city of New York took on the debt because it makes the bonds tax free. Municipal bond interest isn't taxable. If the Yankees had done a private bond deal for $1 Billion, the interest would be taxable to whomever bought the bonds, making them less marketable.

 

[ktdNYCFC]

What kind of refinancing would result in all of those jobs they spoke about?

 

[Kjbert]

What kind of refinancing would result in all of those jobs they spoke about?

I don't believe they were talking about new jobs. I believe they mentioned the existing jobs.

It could be the only winners here are the City of New York. The bondholders certainly won't like this, but if the bonds were "callable" (the City has the ability to buy your bonds back before the maturity date) there is nothing they can do.

Yankees reduce the debt burden but take on more responsibility with the garage deal it sounds like.

 

[CP_Scouse]

We either have a site in the Bronx OR Yankees are gonna move Fresh Direct to te Bronx so we can have a LIC Site.

I think we will have a LIC site

 

[NYCFCfan]

We either have a site in the Bronx OR Yankees are gonna move Fresh Direct to te Bronx so we can have a LIC Site.

I think we will have a LIC site

Fresh Direct already moved to the Bronx. They opened up a massive new facility in Hunts Point, which is why they sold their LIC location in the first place. They're slowly transferring everything over. My best (uninformed) guess would be that they're keeping their options open until they have the land so as to not screw themselves over like Beckham has in Miami.

 

[Kjbert]

Amazingly, the environment for building a stadium in New York City is better than it is in Miami. The Marlins owner has really screwed over that city.

 

[NickFromAstoria]

Yankees reduce the debt burden but take on more responsibility with the garage deal it sounds like.

Yeah, that's the only pertinent question left that the article didn't really answer - if they do finally dispense with that garage, as it sounds like they will, who eats the debt on the garages? Do the Yankees and the city (and any other interested parties *ahem*) split the costs or what?

 

[sbrylski]

Damn, if they really are ready to give up that garage and use it fomr


"In order to keep the tax-exempt status and avoid running afoul of IRS rules, the Yanks need the city to issue bonds to refinance the stadium.

To win support, the team is proposing giving back roughly 2,000 of the 9,000 parking spaces it received from the struggling Bronx Parking Development Co., a source close to the situation said.

The money-losing operator of the Yankee Stadium parking garages could in turn sub-lease the space to a developer for housing or a hotel.

The Bloomberg administration created the non-profit Bronx Parking Development Co. in part by replacing park land to accommodate the stadium.

The Bronx Bombers don’t need all the parking spaces after Metro North added a Yankee Stadium station stop in 2009, the source said."

Well, that's definitely a bit more smoke...

Can someone clarify this, it's confusingly short on details.

Is this implying that the parking garages are contractual obligated to provide 9,000 parking spaces for the use of Yankee Stadium patrons? And that is the reason the failing parking garages are unable to be converted into something else?

 

[Kjbert]

Can someone clarify this, it's confusingly short on details.

Is this implying that the parking garages are contractual obligated to provide 9,000 parking spaces for the use of Yankee Stadium patrons? And that is the reason the failing parking garages are unable to be converted into something else?

At face value, it's saying the Yankees would surrender space worth 2,000 parking spots. Essentially, a garage would disappear and someone would build something on it that could create revenue. The stadium, hotel, mall would generate sales tax, jobs, hotel tax...? You get the idea

 

[Kjbert]

Yeah, that's the only pertinent question left that the article didn't really answer - if they do finally dispense with that garage, as it sounds like they will, who eats the debt on the garages? Do the Yankees and the city (and any other interested parties *ahem*) split the costs or what?

This answer is just theoretical because we won't know until September 15th - but it sounds like the Yankees would ASSUME the debt of a parking garage or multiple parking garages.

Think of it this way:

You own a home with a 30 Year $1 Million mortgage. Your interest rate is 7%. Over 30 years, you will pay $1.4 Million in INTEREST on that mortgage. Now, if you went ahead and re-financed your mortgage to 4%, you would only pay $700,000 in interest on that mortgage. You save yourself $700,000 over 30 years. You may then go ahead and choose to buy a vacation home with a 30 year $1 Million mortgage. Over 30 years, you are going to pay the same interest cost for two homes as you were for the one home when it had a 7% mortgage.

Now, you decide to rent our your vacation home and charge people every week to come and visit it. Guess what? People pay enough money that the rental home practically pays for itself.

This is why, THEORETICALLY, this would all make sense if you thought this has something to do with a stadium for NYCFC.

 

[Kjbert]

Here's a question for those of you with time on your hands - maybe someone like Seth or The Toe who has been good with this stuff on the thread:

If there are 9,000 parking spots available and we reduce the footprint by 2,000 parking spots, how many parking garages does that eliminate? Are there 9 garages with 1,000 spots each? So do we reclaim two garages and thus, the land for those two garages? Could a stadium fit on the site of two (or one) garage site?

Edit: Did a little research and here is the map for parking spaces. There are 7 garages servicing Yankee Stadium. Can someone overlay this with a stadium OR show us where the GAL location is?

http://www.nycfc.com/matchday/parking

 

[Kjbert]

"In order to keep the tax-exempt status and avoid running afoul of IRS rules, the Yanks need the city to issue bonds to refinance the stadium.

To win support, the team is proposing giving back roughly 2,000 of the 9,000 parking spaces it received from the struggling Bronx Parking Development Co., a source close to the situation said.

The money-losing operator of the Yankee Stadium parking garages could in turn sub-lease the space to a developer for housing or a hotel.

The Bloomberg administration created the non-profit Bronx Parking Development Co. in part by replacing park land to accommodate the stadium.

The Bronx Bombers don’t need all the parking spaces after Metro North added a Yankee Stadium station stop in 2009, the source said."

Well, that's definitely a bit more smoke...

If you wanted to go one more deviation from here...

What if the Yankees allowed two parking garages to be demolished, assumed the debt on those two structures and let the city build new affordable housing there? Then, the quid pro quo would be a joint Yankee/NYCFC stadium deal somewhere else in the city.

 

[Kjbert]

Seth can you do us a favor? Can you overlay a stadium on the GAL Manufacturing site and the 153rd St. Parking Garage for Yankee Stadium? It would abut the 153rd St. Metro North stadium to the West and Heritage Field to the Northeast. It would eliminate E 153rd St. between Macombs Dam Park and River Ave.

The 153rd St. Garage has 2,411 spaces

http://en.parkopedia.com/parking/garage/153rd_street_garage/10451/new_york/

 

[NickFromAstoria]

If you wanted to go one more deviation from here...

What if the Yankees allowed two parking garages to be demolished, assumed the debt on those two structures and let the city build new affordable housing there? Then, the quid pro quo would be a joint Yankee/NYCFC stadium deal somewhere else in the city.

That could be a possibility too, but my guess is that they would be demolishing only the one garage south of the original stadium footprint (between 157th and 153rd). I checked the certificate of occupancy and it said there were 2,301 spots there. Since that's the same spot that we know that the team looked at in the past, it could certainly still be a prime candidate for us - well, assuming GAL also comes around, but one step at a time.

EDIT: Just saw your newest post -good to see we're on the same page!

 

[Bane]

I suppose the biggest questions is does this new insight as it pertains to the 15th increase or decrease the odds it's connected to the stadium?

 

[Kjbert]

I suppose the biggest questions is does this new insight as it pertains to the 15th increase or decrease the odds it's connected to the stadium?

Anything connected to the parking garages increases our connection.

 

[NickFromAstoria]

I suppose the biggest questions is does this new insight as it pertains to the 15th increase or decrease the odds it's connected to the stadium?

I think it's fair to say that it's an increase - with the caveat that there's still zero evidence that solidly and directly links NYCFC so far. The garage question was one of the two issues that scuttled the deal the first time around, so if it's resolved, it's now a matter of finding a number that GAL likes.