Stadium Discussion

[Jon]

We have 2 related but different discussions.
1. Why has attendance dropped (unless it didn't even drop per Seth); and
2. Why is NYC not killing it in attendance compared to other cities.

I find the second more interesting. NYCFC is 5th, which is fine, but we're also larger than everyone else ahead of us by a factor of roughly 2 or more.

I think the following factors explain why:

• NY is not unified. We are fractured. Diversity is not an asset in this instance. And I'm not specifically talking ethnic diversity. It also includes having 5 distinct boroughs, with multiple unconnected neighborhoods in each, and loyalties that go to your school, or neighborhood, or country of origin, or class, or religion, or race, or your particular interest in art, literature, TV, music, politicians, a hobby, or collection, or whatever.
• This is worse than in other cities because NYC is so huge that every tiny sub-group has a critical mass of people who can cluster together instead of getting engaged through momentum into any possible city-wide civic culture.
• Have you ever been in another city when one of their sports teams makes it to even a conference final? The entire city is covered in team colors and everyone takes part in it, including people who silently think sports is stupid. Here, even when the biggest teams like the Giants, Yankees or (it's been a while but still) Knicks win a championship, you not only have fans of competing local teams rooting against them, but everyone who thinks sports is boring sits it out because there are hundreds of thousands of people who feel the same and there is no pressure, negative or positive, to go along. In other cities they would be would be a bandwagon boosters and might even attend games on occasion.
• Many New Yorkers feel disdain for much of American culture, and admiration for foreign. That many foreign soccer leagues are better than MLS reinforces this but it would be an issue and will be an issue as MLS improves. So many NYers root for big foreign teams instead of the local MLS team. Obviously there is substantial evidence just in this forum of fans who do both, but it's a distinct subset. This is why attendance boosts more for visits by Schweinsteiger or a washed up Gerrard than for USMNT legend Clint Dempsey and Seattle. Getting excited for a game against Columbus, Houston or Salt Lake will never happen for these people.
• NYCFC is affiliated with the wrong foreign team. Man City is nouveau riche who became good the wrong way and too recently. Teams like Chelsea did the same thing more or less but did so just earlier enough to seem more traditional. Even Tottenham probably has more cachet among these fans than Man City.
• Portland, which has a large similar culture group to the people I am discussing in NYC, overcame this with a team that is distinctly Portland. The name. The colors. Everything about that teams says Portland. It think also helps that that Portland is smaller so the connection between the team and this subculture could coalesce more easily.
• In contrast, NYCFC's identity has nothing to do with New York City. Instead, we have generic "City" branding. Forget Man City, let's take a look at our sibling down under.

View attachment 7553
View attachment 7554 View attachment 7555

• City to the Core, This Is Our City, This Week In Our City, Meeting The City. Every damn one of those could be transplanted to any random city where CFG sets up shop including right here in NYC and fit right in, and be just as bland, generic and meaningless. There's nothing NYC about NYCFC's marketing, name, or branding, except for the letters NYC. Every team in every city uses the that locality's name name so that's not exactly anything. Subway posters based on the "City" brand do nothing to connect this team to This City. Even all the "City" jerseys are 80% or more identical.
• View attachment 7556
• Oh, we have some orange, and the badge looks a bit like a subway token. That's how NYCFC represents NYC. I think this is one reason why people are so unrelenting on demanding a stadium in the boroughs, and so unforgiving of Belmont, even with the sliver of it inside the city. And yes, transportation is a major issue, but even if that were solved, and Belmont were absolutely convenient, I think the fans we do have would reject that site because if the team is not actually 100% inside NYC then there is nothing NYC about it at all. It's just "City"
• Beyond Portland, contrast us also with Seattle or Vancouver. Everything about those teams evokes their location: the name, the colors, the badge. It all fits together. I don't see anything particularly "Atlanta" about Atlanta United, but the locals do. Maybe it is the colors, or the owner, who is a beloved local personality, plus a bandwagon effect in a small/big town (or maybe Atlanta is big/small). They have obviously gotten hardcore soccer fans, plus Atlanta boosters, plus general sports fans, plus soccer mom/dads/kids, plus hipsters, to embrace this team. In contrast to those teams, we are the generic"City."

View attachment 7557

The core fanbase of this team is people who really like soccer, without reservation, and want a local team to root for. But I think this team does a poor job of wooing

• people who like soccer but mostly root for foreign teams
• people who like other sports and could be convinced to embrace soccer with a bit of momentum and actual NYC branding.

Part of that is the greater barriers and obstacles that NYC presents as I discussed, but it is also just poorly done.

One of the best posts I've seen on here in quite some time. Good points about the positive and negative aspects of the relationship between NYC and CFG. I think this team will continue to struggle with connecting to NYC without a stadium in the boroughs.

 

[Seth]

We have 2 related but different discussions.
1. Why has attendance dropped (unless it didn't even drop per Seth); and
2. Why is NYC not killing it in attendance compared to other cities.

I find the second more interesting. NYCFC is 5th, which is fine, but we're also larger than everyone else ahead of us by a factor of roughly 2 or more.

I think the following factors explain why:

• NY is not unified. We are fractured. Diversity is not an asset in this instance. And I'm not specifically talking ethnic diversity. It also includes having 5 distinct boroughs, with multiple unconnected neighborhoods in each, and loyalties that go to your school, or neighborhood, or country of origin, or class, or religion, or race, or your particular interest in art, literature, TV, music, politicians, a hobby, or collection, or whatever.
• This is worse than in other cities because NYC is so huge that every tiny sub-group has a critical mass of people who can cluster together instead of getting engaged through momentum into any possible city-wide civic culture.
• Have you ever been in another city when one of their sports teams makes it to even a conference final? The entire city is covered in team colors and everyone takes part in it, including people who silently think sports is stupid. Here, even when the biggest teams like the Giants, Yankees or (it's been a while but still) Knicks win a championship, you not only have fans of competing local teams rooting against them, but everyone who thinks sports is boring sits it out because there are hundreds of thousands of people who feel the same and there is no pressure, negative or positive, to go along. In other cities they would be would be a bandwagon boosters and might even attend games on occasion.
• Many New Yorkers feel disdain for much of American culture, and admiration for foreign. That many foreign soccer leagues are better than MLS reinforces this but it would be an issue and will be an issue as MLS improves. So many NYers root for big foreign teams instead of the local MLS team. Obviously there is substantial evidence just in this forum of fans who do both, but it's a distinct subset. This is why attendance boosts more for visits by Schweinsteiger or a washed up Gerrard than for USMNT legend Clint Dempsey and Seattle. Getting excited for a game against Columbus, Houston or Salt Lake will never happen for these people.
• NYCFC is affiliated with the wrong foreign team. Man City is nouveau riche who became good the wrong way and too recently. Teams like Chelsea did the same thing more or less but did so just earlier enough to seem more traditional. Even Tottenham probably has more cachet among these fans than Man City.
• Portland, which has a large similar culture group to the people I am discussing in NYC, overcame this with a team that is distinctly Portland. The name. The colors. Everything about that teams says Portland. It think also helps that that Portland is smaller so the connection between the team and this subculture could coalesce more easily.
• In contrast, NYCFC's identity has nothing to do with New York City. Instead, we have generic "City" branding. Forget Man City, let's take a look at our sibling down under.

View attachment 7553
View attachment 7554 View attachment 7555

• City to the Core, This Is Our City, This Week In Our City, Meeting The City. Every damn one of those could be transplanted to any random city where CFG sets up shop including right here in NYC and fit right in, and be just as bland, generic and meaningless. There's nothing NYC about NYCFC's marketing, name, or branding, except for the letters NYC. Every team in every city uses the that locality's name name so that's not exactly anything. Subway posters based on the "City" brand do nothing to connect this team to This City. Even all the "City" jerseys are 80% or more identical.
• View attachment 7556
• Oh, we have some orange, and the badge looks a bit like a subway token. That's how NYCFC represents NYC. I think this is one reason why people are so unrelenting on demanding a stadium in the boroughs, and so unforgiving of Belmont, even with the sliver of it inside the city. And yes, transportation is a major issue, but even if that were solved, and Belmont were absolutely convenient, I think the fans we do have would reject that site because if the team is not actually 100% inside NYC then there is nothing NYC about it at all. It's just "City"
• Beyond Portland, contrast us also with Seattle or Vancouver. Everything about those teams evokes their location: the name, the colors, the badge. It all fits together. I don't see anything particularly "Atlanta" about Atlanta United, but the locals do. Maybe it is the colors, or the owner, who is a beloved local personality, plus a bandwagon effect in a small/big town (or maybe Atlanta is big/small). They have obviously gotten hardcore soccer fans, plus Atlanta boosters, plus general sports fans, plus soccer mom/dads/kids, plus hipsters, to embrace this team. In contrast to those teams, we are the generic"City."

View attachment 7557

The core fanbase of this team is people who really like soccer, without reservation, and want a local team to root for. But I think this team does a poor job of wooing

• people who like soccer but mostly root for foreign teams
• people who like other sports and could be convinced to embrace soccer with a bit of momentum and actual NYC branding.

Part of that is the greater barriers and obstacles that NYC presents as I discussed, but it is also just poorly done.

All excellent points, and all easily potential factors. I see three additional things though.

A: two teams
B: New York has a billion other things going on
C: uh, I don't really see a problem with our attendance

A: One thing that never gets mentioned in attendance discussions is that there are two MLS teams here. We have 20,000 at every match, but there's another 15,000 or so that are at their every match (or at least who've bought tickets even if they're not there). If we were the only MLS team in the neighborhood we'd have 35,000 passionate fans. Even if half of those are from New Jersey and would never come here that still makes our base number very near 30,000 rather than just above 20,000.

B: New York is one of the premier cities in the world, and there's every sort of entertainment one could want available. San Jose, maybe not so much. From another perspective, MLS is a much smaller fish here than it perhaps is in other cities.

C: Well, apparently 3/4 of the league would love to have our attendance numbers if we're 5th in the list. And that's also in only our third year. What happens if we win the Cup in our 6th year, say? Or even if it takes longer winning the Cup would at least get us noticed in the greater NYC sports world. Couldn't hurt, at the very least. But regardless, there are many teams that'd be thrilled to have 20,000+ at every match and 30,000 at a few matches a year.

Not sure I'm seeing a problem here. I mean sure, more is better. But if one day we have a 25,000 seat stadium our current 20,000 ain't a bad start.

 

[LionNYC]

All excellent points, and all easily potential factors. I see three additional things though.

A: two teams
B: New York has a billion other things going on
C: uh, I don't really see a problem with our attendance

A: One thing that never gets mentioned in attendance discussions is that there are two MLS teams here. We have 20,000 at every match, but there's another 15,000 or so that are at their every match (or at least who've bought tickets even if they're not there). If we were the only MLS team in the neighborhood we'd have 35,000 passionate fans. Even if half of those are from New Jersey and would never come here that still makes our base number very near 30,000 rather than just above 20,000.

B: New York is one of the premier cities in the world, and there's every sort of entertainment one could want available. San Jose, maybe not so much. From another perspective, MLS is a much smaller fish here than it perhaps is in other cities.

C: Well, apparently 3/4 of the league would love to have our attendance numbers if we're 5th in the list. And that's also in only our third year. What happens if we win the Cup in our 6th year, say? Or even if it takes longer winning the Cup would at least get us noticed in the greater NYC sports world. Couldn't hurt, at the very least. But regardless, there are many teams that'd be thrilled to have 20,000+ at every match and 30,000 at a few matches a year.

Not sure I'm seeing a problem here. I mean sure, more is better. But if one day we have a 25,000 seat stadium our current 20,000 ain't a bad start.

B is another huge point. With sports fans you have to compete with 8 other professional sports teams (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL). With soccer fans you have to compete with foreign leagues. Then there's the arts, the music, etc. etc. And we're only counting those who have the disposable income to come to a game. There are New Yorkers that can't afford it. Economics is about decisions. And NYCFC and MLS and soccer is a decision.

 

[Jon]

All excellent points, and all easily potential factors. I see three additional things though.

A: two teams
B: New York has a billion other things going on
C: uh, I don't really see a problem with our attendance

A: One thing that never gets mentioned in attendance discussions is that there are two MLS teams here. We have 20,000 at every match, but there's another 15,000 or so that are at their every match (or at least who've bought tickets even if they're not there). If we were the only MLS team in the neighborhood we'd have 35,000 passionate fans. Even if half of those are from New Jersey and would never come here that still makes our base number very near 30,000 rather than just above 20,000.

B: New York is one of the premier cities in the world, and there's every sort of entertainment one could want available. San Jose, maybe not so much. From another perspective, MLS is a much smaller fish here than it perhaps is in other cities.

C: Well, apparently 3/4 of the league would love to have our attendance numbers if we're 5th in the list. And that's also in only our third year. What happens if we win the Cup in our 6th year, say? Or even if it takes longer winning the Cup would at least get us noticed in the greater NYC sports world. Couldn't hurt, at the very least. But regardless, there are many teams that'd be thrilled to have 20,000+ at every match and 30,000 at a few matches a year.

Not sure I'm seeing a problem here. I mean sure, more is better. But if one day we have a 25,000 seat stadium our current 20,000 ain't a bad start.

Good points again. Appearance is everything, right? If we had 22.5k in a stadium that was built for 26k it wouldn't be so bad. But when you play in YS it just looks sad.

 

[LionNYC]

What is an actually soccer specific stadium going to do to attract more fans? What's the population of potential fans in the city that aren't coming because we're in Yankee Stadium? Yankee Stadium isn't a great soccer atmosphere but it's not terrible. On top of that it's the best public transportation spot we can currently have to maximize our potential fanbase. 4,B,D,MetroNorth.

 

[Jon]

What is an actually soccer specific stadium going to do to attract more fans? What's the population of potential fans in the city that aren't coming because we're in Yankee Stadium? Yankee Stadium isn't a great soccer atmosphere but it's not terrible. On top of that it's the best public transportation spot we can currently have to maximize our potential fanbase. 4,B,D,MetroNorth.

I think having your own place cements your plaxe in the city and adds some legitimacy to your franchise and MLS.

 

[Vaporizer]

My personal take on why attendance is low is because, not as many people as we think, know we have a team in NYC. I Uber or cab to the stadium for every game. When I'm in Yankee gear-everyone knows why I'm going. When I'm in a NYCFC Jersey or hat, I'm always amazed that the driver has no clue we have a footy team. 90% of my drivers are not born in this country and come from countries that love football.

We don't advertise enough, it's been better this year than the previous two, but I still don't think it's enough.

 

[Jon]

My personal take on why attendance is low is because, not as many people as we think, know we have a team in NYC. I Uber or cab to the stadium for every game. When I'm in Yankee gear-everyone knows why I'm going. When I'm in a NYCFC Jersey or hat, I'm always amazed that the driver has no clue we have a footy team. 90% of my drivers are not born in this country and come from countries that love football.

We don't advertise enough, it's been better this year than the previous two, but I still don't think it's enough.

The subway signs are great and all but we should be advertising on TV and I have yet to see a TV commercial besides the promos on YES.

 

[Christopher Jee]

What is an actually soccer specific stadium going to do to attract more fans? What's the population of potential fans in the city that aren't coming because we're in Yankee Stadium? Yankee Stadium isn't a great soccer atmosphere but it's not terrible. On top of that it's the best public transportation spot we can currently have to maximize our potential fanbase. 4,B,D,MetroNorth.

I imagine it bites us in two places at least:

1. I don't think there are many people who already wanna see NYCFC who baulk at going to Yankee Stadium, but I think it may stop people from taking the club seriously. It also looks awful / awkward on TV.
2. Repeat visits - Yankee Stadium is built for a baseball game with it's low slung stands and it doesn't make for a compelling atmosphere. I can imagine people being disinclined to come back. Also, all the branding at the stadium is Yankees-centric which makes the club seem less authentic.

 

[LionNYC]

Since we don't have a Sheikh Mansour thread, I'll throw this here. Interesting watch...

 

[SoupInNYC]

B is another huge point. With sports fans you have to compete with 8 other professional sports teams (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL). With soccer fans you have to compete with foreign leagues. Then there's the arts, the music, etc. etc. And we're only counting those who have the disposable income to come to a game. There are New Yorkers that can't afford it. Economics is about decisions. And NYCFC and MLS and soccer is a decision.

And also consider that this is a city that attracts people from all over the country and world to it, with their own pre-established allegiances. The only other cities that really have this to such a large degree within this league would be DC and LA. Sure Chicago and Houston are large cities that others will move to, but not quite as dominant as NYC or DC.

I'm not entirely certain that this has a massive impact, but it does probably result in less followers. Hell, I'm from the Chicago area (went to a few Fire games way back in the day when I was a kid and they had Beasley and Armas), but never got into it. I lived in the DC area for 3 years but never got into DCU, and then moved here. I very easily could have been a DCU or Fire fan.

And I think a lot of foreigners aren't going to jump into following a local MLS team. They will still have their ties back to whatever league/club abroad that the follow. Sure, they may go check out a match here and there, but I think that falls in those scenarios laid out above where a Gerrard or Kaka come into town to play. Or maybe they go for one game just to watch Villa or Pirlo.

 

[ManhattanValley]

Beyond Portland, contrast us also with Seattle or Vancouver. Everything about those teams evokes their location: the name, the colors, the badge. It all fits together. I don't see anything particularly "Atlanta" about Atlanta United, but the locals do. Maybe it is the colors, or the owner, who is a beloved local personality, plus a bandwagon effect in a small/big town (or maybe Atlanta is big/small). They have obviously gotten hardcore soccer fans, plus Atlanta boosters, plus general sports fans, plus soccer mom/dads/kids, plus hipsters, to embrace this team. In contrast to those teams, we are the generic "City."

I get why the generic branding bugs you (hey, at least we're not the Red Bulls), but I think this is overblown. It's all well and good to say the NYCFC brand doesn't reflect NYC, but I'm yet to see a convincing explanation of what that actually is. What are we not doing that the Knicks, Jets, or Rangers are? I don't see anything quintessentially "New York" about those teams, their colors, their badge, branding etc, so why doesn't it hurt them? In such a diverse, sprawling city I think any attempt to define what "New York branding" looks like quickly becomes clumsy at best, cliched at worst.

And anyway, as you point out yourself, it doesn't seem to matter to ATL fans that their team logo isn't some stereotypical representation of Atlanta life (peaches stuck in traffic?). I haven't met anyone who would consider coming to games if only the jerseys were a different color or the badge a different shape.

My two cents? I tend to get two types of people taking my second season ticket:

1. People who want an affordable, alternative day out at Yankee Stadium. There are plenty of people tired of blowing cash for four hours in the 300 level during a baseball game, who will give football a try if they can spend half the time and half the ticket price on a better seat in the same stadium. It's a cynical, insincere reason to follow the team, but it 100% exists (and weirdly, could hurt us once we get our own stadium - if you're trying to persuade someone to come to a game, you don't need to explain twice how to get to Yankee Stadium). ATL are capitalizing on the same thing here - can't afford to drop $150 on the Falcons? Come to the same stadium for a fraction of the price - oh, and the hot dogs are basically free. The problem for us is that our shared stadium isn't a long-term solution like theirs is. Which brings me to....

2. People who come for the experience. Everyone I bring to a game knows full well that the product on the field is shabby compared to EPL on a Saturday morning. We all know it. But we don't care because being in the stands offers something you can't get watching on your couch from 3000 miles away at 10am. I bought a friend who'd never watched a game in her life to her first ever game last year when we first beat the Red Bulls - after 90 minutes of tifos, verbal abuse and post-match dance parties under the subway tracks, she's now got her own season ticket. This should be the single biggest priority of the marketing team, and I have no idea why they don't make more of it. Everything the front office does should be geared towards making the atmosphere inside YS electric, but it doesn't seem to happen. Most NY stadiums are fucking libraries right now, because the teams are universally terrible, but we offer something unique. No MLS club is ever going to replicate anything about an EPL team except the matchday atmosphere, and that's what the team should be selling.

 

[FredMertz]

We have 2 related but different discussions.
1. Why has attendance dropped (unless it didn't even drop per Seth); and
2. Why is NYC not killing it in attendance compared to other cities.

I find the second more interesting. NYCFC is 5th, which is fine, but we're also larger than everyone else ahead of us by a factor of roughly 2 or more.

I think the following factors explain why:

• NY is not unified. We are fractured. Diversity is not an asset in this instance. And I'm not specifically talking ethnic diversity. It also includes having 5 distinct boroughs, with multiple unconnected neighborhoods in each, and loyalties that go to your school, or neighborhood, or country of origin, or class, or religion, or race, or your particular interest in art, literature, TV, music, politics, a hobby, activity, or collection, or whatever.
• This is worse than in other cities because NYC is so huge that every tiny sub-group has a critical mass of people who can cluster together instead of getting engaged through momentum into any possible city-wide civic culture.
• Have you ever been in another city when one of their sports teams makes it to even a conference final? The entire city is covered in team colors and everyone takes part in it, including people who silently think sports is stupid. Here, even when the biggest teams like the Giants, Yankees or (it's been a while but still) Knicks win a championship, you not only have fans of competing local teams rooting against them, but everyone who thinks sports is boring sits it out because there are hundreds of thousands of people who feel the same and there is no pressure, negative or positive, to go along. In other cities they would be bandwagon boosters and might even attend games on occasion.
• Many New Yorkers feel disdain for much of American culture, and admiration for foreign. That many foreign soccer leagues are better than MLS reinforces this but it would be an issue and will be an issue as MLS improves. So many NYers root for big foreign teams instead of the local MLS team. Obviously there is substantial evidence just in this forum of fans who do both, but it's a distinct subset. This is why there is more buzz for visits by Schweinsteiger or a washed up Gerrard than for USMNT legend Clint Dempsey and MLS Champion Seattle. Getting excited for a game against Columbus, Houston or Salt Lake will never happen for these people.
• NYCFC is affiliated with the wrong foreign team. Man City is nouveau riche who became good the wrong way and too recently. Teams like Chelsea did the same thing more or less but did so just earlier enough to seem more traditional. Even Tottenham probably has more cachet among these fans than Man City.
• Portland, which has a large similar culture group to the people I am discussing in NYC, overcame this with a team that is distinctly Portland. The name. The colors. Everything about that teams says Portland. It think also helps that that Portland is smaller so the connection between the team and this subculture could coalesce more easily.
• In contrast, NYCFC's identity has nothing to do with New York City. Instead, we have generic "City" branding. Forget Man City, let's take a look at our sibling down under.

View attachment 7553
View attachment 7554 View attachment 7555

• City to the Core, This Is Our City, This Week In Our City, Meeting The City. Every damn one of those could be transplanted to any random city where CFG sets up shop including right here in NYC and fit right in, and be just as bland, generic and meaningless. There's nothing NYC about NYCFC's marketing, name, or branding, except for the letters NYC. Every team in every sport in every city uses the that locality's name so that's not exactly anything. Subway posters based on the "City" brand do nothing to connect this team to This City. Even all the "City" jerseys are 80% or more identical.
• View attachment 7556
• Oh, we have some orange, and the badge looks a bit like a subway token. That's how NYCFC represents NYC. I think this is one reason why people are so unrelenting on demanding a stadium in the boroughs, and so unforgiving of Belmont, even with the sliver of it inside the city. And yes, transportation is a major issue, but even if that were solved, and Belmont were absolutely convenient, I think the fans we do have would reject that site because if the team is not actually 100% inside NYC then there is nothing NYC about it at all. It's just "City"
• Beyond Portland, contrast us also with Seattle or Vancouver. Everything about those teams evokes their location: the name, the colors, the badge. It all fits together. I don't see anything particularly "Atlanta" about Atlanta United, but the locals do. Maybe it is the colors, or the owner, who is a beloved local personality, plus a bandwagon effect in a small/big town (or maybe Atlanta is big/small). They have obviously gotten hardcore soccer fans, plus Atlanta boosters, plus general sports fans, plus soccer mom/dads/kids, plus hipsters, to embrace this team. In contrast to those teams, we are the generic "City."

View attachment 7557

The core fanbase of this team is people who really like soccer, without reservation, and want a local team to root for. But I think this team does a poor job of wooing

• people who like soccer but mostly root for foreign teams
• people who like other sports and could be convinced to embrace soccer with a bit of momentum and actual NYC branding.

Part of that is the greater barriers and obstacles that NYC presents as I discussed, but it is also just poorly done.

If they really want to incorporate something into the marketing that represents NYC and nowhere else, the answer is simple.... PIGEONS!

 

[mgarbowski]

If they really want to incorporate something into the marketing that represents NYC and nowhere else, the answer is simple.... PIGEONS!

Thank you.

 

[Fake Jew]

I get why the generic branding bugs you (hey, at least we're not the Red Bulls), but I think this is overblown. It's all well and good to say the NYCFC brand doesn't reflect NYC, but I'm yet to see a convincing explanation of what that actually is. What are we not doing that the Knicks, Jets, or Rangers are? I don't see anything quintessentially "New York" about those teams, their colors, their badge, branding etc, so why doesn't it hurt them? In such a diverse, sprawling city I think any attempt to define what "New York branding" looks like quickly becomes clumsy at best, cliched at worst.

And anyway, as you point out yourself, it doesn't seem to matter to ATL fans that their team logo isn't some stereotypical representation of Atlanta life (peaches stuck in traffic?). I haven't met anyone who would consider coming to games if only the jerseys were a different color or the badge a different shape.

My two cents? I tend to get two types of people taking my second season ticket:

1. People who want an affordable, alternative day out at Yankee Stadium. There are plenty of people tired of blowing cash for four hours in the 300 level during a baseball game, who will give football a try if they can spend half the time and half the ticket price on a better seat in the same stadium. It's a cynical, insincere reason to follow the team, but it 100% exists (and weirdly, could hurt us once we get our own stadium - if you're trying to persuade someone to come to a game, you don't need to explain twice how to get to Yankee Stadium). ATL are capitalizing on the same thing here - can't afford to drop $150 on the Falcons? Come to the same stadium for a fraction of the price - oh, and the hot dogs are basically free. The problem for us is that our shared stadium isn't a long-term solution like theirs is. Which brings me to....

2. People who come for the experience. Everyone I bring to a game knows full well that the product on the field is shabby compared to EPL on a Saturday morning. We all know it. But we don't care because being in the stands offers something you can't get watching on your couch from 3000 miles away at 10am. I bought a friend who'd never watched a game in her life to her first ever game last year when we first beat the Red Bulls - after 90 minutes of tifos, verbal abuse and post-match dance parties under the subway tracks, she's now got her own season ticket. This should be the single biggest priority of the marketing team, and I have no idea why they don't make more of it. Everything the front office does should be geared towards making the atmosphere inside YS electric, but it doesn't seem to happen. Most NY stadiums are fucking libraries right now, because the teams are universally terrible, but we offer something unique. No MLS club is ever going to replicate anything about an EPL team except the matchday atmosphere, and that's what the team should be selling.

Well for the Knicks and Rangers it would be MSG that makes them New York.

 

[FredMertz]

My personal take on why attendance is low is because, not as many people as we think, know we have a team in NYC. I Uber or cab to the stadium for every game. When I'm in Yankee gear-everyone knows why I'm going. When I'm in a NYCFC Jersey or hat, I'm always amazed that the driver has no clue we have a footy team. 90% of my drivers are not born in this country and come from countries that love football.

We don't advertise enough, it's been better this year than the previous two, but I still don't think it's enough.

Just because I am who I am, I looked up the demographics of NYC taxi drivers: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/2014_taxicab_fact_book.pdf

23% Bangladesh, 13% Pakistan, 9.3% India, 6.5% Haiti, 5.9% USA, 4.4% Egypt.

So your 90% number seems high.

 

[Statler]

The metro area is the relevant metric because no more than 4-6 cities could support a major sports franchise on their own without getting 80% of the fans from outside the city itself.

One might conclude that you've nailed one of the key ways NYC is unique compared to other metros in this post, and it supports some of the reasons the "City" branding actually makes sense in this case.

 

[mgarbowski]

One might conclude that you've nailed one of the key ways NYC is unique compared to other metros in this post, and it supports some of the reasons the "City" branding actually makes sense in this case.

Except when you read the exact same stilted phrasing for Melbourne.

Working the city/urban/whatever angle might make sense. But generic "City" branding just makes me say "which damn city" NYC? Melbourne City? Orlando City? Leicester City? Swansea City? Manchester City?


Say. My. Name.

 

[Vaporizer]

Just because I am who I am, I looked up the demographics of NYC taxi drivers: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/2014_taxicab_fact_book.pdf

23% Bangladesh, 13% Pakistan, 9.3% India, 6.5% Haiti, 5.9% USA, 4.4% Egypt.

So your 90% number seems high.

Not to me and my Uber/ Yellow & Green taxi driver demographics.
Every single one of the counties you listed from that 2014 PDF has a Football league.
I still stand by my 90% of my drivers were not born in the US and come from countries that play Football

 

[sbrylski]

Except when you read the exact same stilted phrasing for Melbourne.

Working the city/urban/whatever angle might make sense. But generic "City" branding just makes me say "which damn city" NYC? Melbourne City? Orlando City? Leicester City? Swansea City? Manchester City?


Say. My. Name.

We desperately need a New York stamp on this team. I'm still pretty flabbergasted this never caught on as an anthem. It almost seems like it was literally written for this purpose:

Years of being told you ain't as good as us
Join the line and sign your name
And they said that our city's going bust
But no-one's fooling us again

[Chorus]
New York belongs to me
A city's pride the dirty water on the Hudson river
No one can take away the memory
Oh Oh, New York belongs to me

We'll show the world that the boys are back to stay
And you all know what we can do
Heads held high, fighting all the way
For the red, white, and blue

[Chorus]