Stadium Discussion

[mgarbowski]

Another negative article, but it has links to the REFI:
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2018/...in-subsidies-isnt-even-a-formal-proposal-yet/

This article is somewhat better in its criticisms than the Voice (and written by the same guy).

On the negative side, it repeats the flawed comparison of the sale price for adjacent land that does not require building over a working rail yard. Then it posts a separate bullet point mocking the plan documents for noting that the stadium construction will cost an extra $75 million for building over rail yards, with a tone of that is not an actual benefit to the public, which ignores that the state has an imperfect hand here. The state has land it wants to sell/lease while retaining a massive easement to run freights trains underneath it.

I credit DeMausse and his book co-author for beating the drums on stadium subsidies for 20 years, but some of the snark here seems to show that when you have a hammer you look for nails. If you don't build a stadium there whatever is built will have to deal with the same site limitations and extra costs and will need similar cost breaks to make it feasible.

On the plus side, they actually did more than superficially scan the summary and delve into some specifics, including that there will be no parking. Instead, the plan is to run shuttle buses and/or ferries to the Yankee Stadium lots 2 miles away.

On an unrelated note, on a typical Sunday night at 8:30 pm, taking the subway from this site to my home takes 4x longer than driving.

ETA: LeeNYCFC posted the transport portion of the proposal in the post just before mine went up.

 

[sammy3469]

Could be true, but I'd think LA/California have just as much red tape if not more than NY.

The ESD can simply override everything except the City's WRP for waterfront planning. So concievably they could gum the works up that way.

One other hiccup is that the intermodel terminal would need to be moved to the East side of the Willet's bridge in the proposal

 

[Fake Jew]

Worst case scenario for parking is you can park by a ferry port.

 

[Angela Miller]

Will there be a statue of SeanJohn? Yes. But it will be NSFW.

And why do you limit me to only one girl in my life? Got to spread the love baby Next time you’re in NY you can see for yourself. Maybe you’ll switch to idolizing Jews over Italians.

Will there be a statue of SeanJohn? Yes. But it will be NSFW.

And why do you limit me to only one girl in my life? Got to spread the love baby Next time you’re in NY you can see for yourself. Maybe you’ll switch to idolizing Jews over Italians.

Oye Veah I've been a huge follower of Fake Jew for years my 8 candle friend ️️

 

[sammy3469]

This article is somewhat better in its criticisms than the Voice (and written by the same guy).

On the negative side, it repeats the flawed comparison of the sale price for adjacent land that does not require building over a working rail yard. Then it posts a separate bullet point mocking the plan documents for noting that the stadium construction will cost an extra $75 million for building over rail yards, with a tone of that is not an actual benefit to the public, which ignores that the state has an imperfect hand here. The state has land it wants to sell/lease while retaining a massive easement to run freights trains underneath it.

I credit DeMausse and his book co-author for beating the drums on stadium subsidies for 20 years, but some of the snark here seems to show that when you have a hammer you look for nails. If you don't build a stadium there whatever is built will have to deal with the same site limitations and extra costs and will need similar cost breaks to make it feasible.

On the plus side, they actually did more than superficially scan the summary and delve into some specifics, including that there will be no parking. Instead, the plan is to run shuttle buses and/or ferries to the Yankee Stadium lots 2 miles away.

On an unrelated note, on a typical Sunday night at 8:30 pm, taking the subway from this site to my home takes 4x longer than driving.

Yeah he's somewhat better, but not much. Basically every proposal is going to have $100 million in upfront costs to get the site ready for development ($25 for the esplanade and $75 for the concrete platform). The State isn't paying that. Then you throw in the fact that the state wants affordable housing and the financial aspects of anyone building here, quickly add up. Maybe Related could figure something out without a stadium, but the number of firms that have both the experience and money to pull this off is extremely limited.

The basic trade off is 550 apartments and a stadium with funding or 1100 apartments with less assured funding.

 

[Ulrich]

Another negative article, but it has links to the REFI:
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2018/...in-subsidies-isnt-even-a-formal-proposal-yet/

He was railing on the project last night, not sure if it was the same article or he repackaged it into your link, but it was all the same thoughts.

My issue with one of his key points, a point also brought up by the Village Voice (and dissected here), is the notion of the City losing out on $400M in tax revenue. That’s a fcking straw man argument. It’s State owned land, and the State can decide how they want to develop it; they don’t have to sell it outright which coincidentally then makes it a taxable entity, because by leasing it for 99years, they don’t lose their valuable commodity sitting in the middle of NYC. Once sold, it’s gone from their registers, and that may/may not be in the State’s best interest. So for the Nay-saying articles to put forth that this particular proposal is costing the City $400M of tax revenue is just disingenuous- the City isn’t owed anything in the current format of the site, and isn’t guaranteed anything just because an RFP will go out for development of the site.

 

[SanBartG]

He was railing on the project last night, not sure if it was the same article or he repackaged it into your link, but it was all the same thoughts.

My issue with one of his key points, a point also brought up by the Village Voice (and dissected here), is the notion of the City losing out on $400M in tax revenue. That’s a fcking straw man argument. It’s State owned land, and the State can decide how they want to develop it; they don’t have to sell it outright which coincidentally then makes it a taxable entity, because by leasing it for 99years, they don’t lose their valuable commodity sitting in the middle of NYC. Once sold, it’s gone from their registers, and that may/may not be in the State’s best interest. So for the Nay-saying articles to put forth that this particular proposal is costing the City $400M of tax revenue is just disingenuous- the City isn’t owed anything in the current format of the site, and isn’t guaranteed anything just because an RFP will go out for development of the site.

Stop using logic and facts. They have no place in this.

 

[Statler]

Worst case scenario for parking is you can park by a ferry port.

Is there an existing ferry that goes to the site, or is this a wish list thing?

 

[mgarbowski]

Is there an existing ferry that goes to the site, or is this a wish list thing?

I don't think there's any reason for a ferry at the moment. There probably isn't even public waterfront access. You'd have to cross the rail yard.

 

[Statler]

I don't think there's any reason for a ferry at the moment. There probably isn't even public waterfront access. You'd have to cross the rail yard.

Well, for anyone taking LIRR from Queens/Nassau/Suffolk, a ferry would make huge difference. I'm three trains to get to this location. And driving will be worse, since parking is apparently not part of the plan.

An LIC ferry would provide a direct LIRR link, and offer some pre and post game bar possibilities.

ETA: would be just under 5 mile ferry trip from LIC to Harlem River Yards. Comparable distance to the existing Bay Ridge to Wall Street ferry, which takes about 40 minutes.

A ferry from Astoria Park would be half the time or less. It would also be at the terminus of the BQX, if that pipe dream ever comes to fruition.

 

[adam]

Looks like plenty of garages right over the bridge. No state subsidies needed for them like at YS.

 

[mgarbowski]

Looks like plenty of garages right over the bridge. No state subsidies needed for them like at YS.

View attachment 8557

Most likely how I'd manage it. Before I upgraded to Delta and got parking included I parked at local garages near YS. Worked well.

 

[Ulrich]

Is there an existing ferry that goes to the site, or is this a wish list thing?

Somewhere in the last 24hrs, I read that there will be a dedicated ferry stop that’ll be integrated into the existing ferry infrastructure/routes (whatever that exactly means - game day service?).

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Are we going to have a tmac statue? Yes, but every year it will look worse and worse compared to his teammates.

Will we have a Mata statue? Yes, but it will be broken all the time.

Will we have a Kreis statue? NO. Da fuq??

I wanna play. Was trying to wait until I got caught up on the thread, but can't.

We'll have a Brovsky statue that doubles as a public water fountain, just so we can see Brovsky do something useful.

We'll have a Wingert statue, but it'll be buried under the turf at midfield because - well, you know. If you're worried you might not get to see it, don't be. We'll dig it up and roll it out on birthdays.

 

[adam]

I also wonder if they will build a small footbridge directly linking Randalls Island. Then you could have some parking and tailgating there. The closest field is actually a soccer pitch.

 

[Jon]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that dump of a... I don't know scrap metal recycling company? on 132nd and Lincoln Ave:



It's still there on the development renderings:



Talk about an eyesore!

 

[Rimil]

I also wonder if they will build a small footbridge directly linking Randalls Island. Then you could have some parking and tailgating there. The closest field is actually a soccer pitch.

View attachment 8558

YES PLEASE!

Footbridge off randalls direct to the stadium would make a drunken stagger (or sober stroll, if you're into that) to-and-fro so damn amazingly easy for me. Who needs to pay $12 for stadium beer when i could pregame at home and have it hit me as I take my seat.

Although, I don't see how a public bridge between randalls and the stadium would be a part of a deal. I mean there already is a bridge in the area towards manhattan, and if google maps is correct and im not walkin on water, then there appears to be a bridge to the bronx under or along side the RFK. I don't see how another bridge to build and maintain wouldn't be considered a boondoggle. You'd just be giving the naysayers a talking point.

 

[dummyrun]

Pretty sure we can mine the RFEI PDFs for at least 50 pages of stadium thread content while we wait on an RFP.

https://twitter.com/x/status/986633766176206849

https://twitter.com/x/status/986640654393626625

 

[Midas Mulligan]

from the oft-linked article of today:

Under “Stadium Benefits,” the proposal includes: “Stadium cost is estimated to be $75m more expensive than a stadium built on a development site without rail tracks to build over.” They’re building an extra-spendy stadium just so freight trains can keep passing through like they already do now! It’s like money in your pocket!

Yeah, dude. Except that's not exactly what it's like - that's exactly what it is.

*All weird-ass grammar and punctuation mine.

 

[SanBartG]

Pretty sure we can mine the RFEI PDFs for at least 50 pages of stadium thread content while we wait on an RFP.

https://twitter.com/x/status/986633766176206849

https://twitter.com/x/status/986640654393626625

Someone explain to me how this proposal involves public financing? I don’t consider not paying property taxes for land you don’t own as public financing. Is there anything else?