USMNT Talk

[NYC24]

A week ago I missed the Cosmos match because I was in Houston meeting with clients.

My son and I are headed to Houston now to see USA vs Messi tonight. I like this trip better. Come on boys lets get it to PKs!

 

[JayH]

A week ago I missed the Cosmos match because I was in Houston meeting with clients.

My son and I are headed to Houston now to see USA vs Messi tonight. I like this trip better. Come on boys lets get it to PKs!

That's awesome. Enjoy.

 

[adam]

Wondo???? WTF????

 

[mgarbowski]

Wondo???? WTF????

Zusi, Wondo and Beckerman are the least inspiring subs possible, but I'm still getting real damn excited for this.

 

[adam]

Zusi, Wondo and Beckerman are the least inspiring subs possible, but I'm still getting real damn excited for this.

I can't complain about Zusi the way he's been playing this Copa, he's added some real energy on the pitch. No problem with Beckerman either, losing Bedoya, we need Bradley to step into that spot and Beckerman play the DM. Makes tons of sense. But there were a million and one lineups that did not require Wondo starting. He looks great vs CONCACAF minows or MLS sides, but he's completely outclassed vs Argentina.

Whatever, let's go boys!!!

 

[Ulrich]

I can only imagine he's there to take a yellow and crush a knee. Then sub in Pulisic.

 

[adam]

Well our backline is in tact. If we can hold them scoreless long enough, we don't need offense. Then bring in pulisic and nagbe to push for the late goal.

 

[Ulrich]

Well our backline is in tact. If we can hold them scoreless long enough, we don't need offense. Then bring in pulisic and nagbe to push for the late goal.

You must've written this the first two minutes of the game

 

[Keith Putnam]

I say take Bradley out at the half and replace him with Nagbe.

Edit: oh shit, Pulisic in for Wondo.

 

[Keith Putnam]

I say take Bradley out at the half and replace him with Nagbe.

Edit: oh shit, Pulisic in for Wondo.

That fourth Argentina goal? Yet another Michael Bradley giveaway. Ugh.

 

[Dnigly13]

Just got back from dempseys. We replaced jones (Germany) Bedoya (France) and wood (Germany) with zusi (mls), beckerman (mls) and Wondo (mls).

That sums up this game to a T.

Guzan played like shit. First goal was all his. That ball was on the air long enough for him to come out and get it. He was caught in no mans land.

Yedlin. Great speed. Still young with much it learn.

Brooks and Cameron were very good again vs the best attaching team in the world.

Johnson played like shit and I believe he was out of position all game.

Beckerman and zusi. See above.

Bradley was ehh. Can't blame him. Can't praise him.

Dempsey is a legend. Top 5 us player ever. No help.

Zardes doesn't have the skill. Works his ass off but no feel for the game.

Wondo. See Belgium game.

 

[mgarbowski]

Guzan played like shit. First goal was all his. That ball was on the air long enough for him to come out and get it. He was caught in no mans land.

Messi - the best player in the world - received the ball just outside the box with no US player within 5 yards and nobody closed on him. We should be capable of keeping up with him while he is standing still but he had nobody near him. He passed it to Lavezzi running inside the box with nobody within 4-5 yards of him at either the start or end of his run. We left an entire half of the box unguarded while an opposing player ran through it at will. The closest US player - Beckerman - did his best impression of Pirlo and Lampard at the end of our Orlando game. But yes, the goal is all the keeper's fault. No, I'm not saying Guzan shone here, or even did moderately well. But this goal was an absolute team breakdown.

Brooks and Cameron were very good again vs the best attaching team in the world.

Except in the above play where they let an opposing player roam unmarked though the box and ARG's third goal where Brooks, whom I adore, got turned around, and then stood and watched as watched Higuain ran to goal, took a shot, got a rebound and shot again. Brooks took one of those "oops-I-should-have-kept-moving-but-now-it's-too-late" halting half-steps after the first shot was blocked because he knew he gave up on the play far too early. Cameron also gave up on that play to watch their keeper stiff one of the top strikers in the world one-on-one with no help and if he had any backup clearing the rebound maybe it's not 3-0.

I'm about 50/50 on your other assessments but these stood out to me, and partly because I saw lots of people saying the same about Guzan. I don't understand why our defense gets a pass because they're playing the top attacking team in the world, but when those same world class players end up unmarked with the ball inside the box Guzan is blamed for not performing a miracle. Same thing on the 4th goal, where Cameron and Brooks had no chance due to Bradley sending a lazy pass vaguely near Birnbaum, who -- well I don't know what the hell Birnbaum did -- and we end up with a Messi and Higuain breakaway and Guzan has no help anywhere from anyone.

 

[SoupInNYC]

That fourth Argentina goal? Yet another Michael Bradley giveaway. Ugh.

Was not a very good pass by Bradley, but I put more on Birnbaum there for whatever he it was that he was doing that wasn't receiving the pass.

 

[Ulrich]

That fourth Argentina goal? Yet another Michael Bradley giveaway. Ugh.

Bradley's pass wasn't wonderful, but Birnbaum didn't play it, instead his dummy created the turnover.

edit- didn't see SoupInNYC 's response

 

[Ulrich]

The USMNT's Achilles heel is that in every tournament, we play the exact same lineup (save maybe a single subbed starter) in every game which results in card accumulation and dead legs.... we simply ride them until they drop. So once we get to the important knock-out games, we have a bunch of guys with no spring in their step or ones that haven't seen the field and can't cope with the intensity of the opponent. This is partly due to a crappy bench of guys not good enough to start and also the coaching staff not trusting the few that are. And it happens every single tournament - WC South Africa we had dead legs against Ghana, WC Brazil dead legs against Belgium, and last night absolutely dead legs against Argentina. I'm not saying we ever would have won the game last night, but playing a one-off game rather than game #5 would have seen vastly different results (even without our three missing-carded players) - and the players on the field last night were never placed in a position to be fresh, and the 5 days off means little when flying cross country. I believe the commentators said that the US had played 12 starters up to the game whereas Argentina had played something like 18 - that's a massive difference. And you could see the lack of spring/cutting ability in each players stride - Fabian looked like he could reverse direction on a dime like he usually can, same with Bradley.

Until the Coaching staff picks a deeper bench that they're not afraid to use - and I don't mean guys like Wondo that have no business being on the field - then we'll never advance to the last stages of a real tournament. Better to pick/play guys with little experience but the highest technical ceiling rather than MLS stalwarts with a ton of experience and no technical ability. Seriously, Wondo was a slow hack-master out there that didn't have a single good touch on the ball. Zardes couldn't trap a ball to save his life.

At least we all got to see one of the greatest free-kicks ever.... far post upper 90 tailing away from the outstretched keeper's arms. Nobody saves that ball ever.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Until the Coaching staff picks a deeper bench that they're not afraid to use - and I don't mean guys like Wondo that have no business being on the field - then we'll never advance to the last stages of a real tournament. Better to pick/play guys with little experience but the highest technical ceiling rather than MLS stalwarts with a ton of experience and no technical ability. Seriously, Wondo was a slow hack-master out there that didn't have a single good touch on the ball. Zardes couldn't trap a ball to save his life.

Last night reminded me of why the Wondo squad selection sucked so much. Down 2-0 at the half, the US really needed a lot of work to get back into a game where possession was hard to come by. Sounded like the perfect opportunity to thrust in the speedy Jordan Morris to hopefully win a long ball and put one in or to just stretch the field and hopefully change the game.

I wouldn't have expected much out of Jordan Morris throughout the tournament had he been selected. But last night is the exact reason why having a guy like him available on the bench can be crucial.

(Also, just to clarify, I don't think the result would have changed dramatically had Jordan Morris been subbed in the second half)

 

[gbservis]

Last night reminded me of why the Wondo squad selection sucked so much. Down 2-0 at the half, the US really needed a lot of work to get back into a game where possession was hard to come by. Sounded like the perfect opportunity to thrust in the speedy Jordan Morris to hopefully win a long ball and put one in or to just stretch the field and hopefully change the game.

I wouldn't have expected much out of Jordan Morris throughout the tournament had he been selected. But last night is the exact reason why having a guy like him available on the bench can be crucial.

(Also, just to clarify, I don't think the result would have changed dramatically had Jordan Morris been subbed in the second half)

I agree, it would have helped with pressure too. Dempsy didn't have the legs for it last night and Wando doesn't have the speed for it. A young fast guy like Jordan Morris going after all those pass backs would have helped tremendously. In the 2nd half Zardes should have done it more often. He kept looking at Dempsy like they were supposed to take turns. Zardes needs to get some perspective, you're in your early 20's standing next to an older gassed vet, you need to do the majority of the chasing.

 

[Keith Putnam]

Bradley's pass wasn't wonderful, but Birnbaum didn't play it, instead his dummy created the turnover.

edit- didn't see SoupInNYC 's response

You're both right about Birnbaum's culpability, but I think at that point in the match I was so fed up with the sheer amount of Bradley's turnovers throughout the match that that's all I could see.

 

[Ulrich]

You're both right about Birnbaum's culpability, but I think at that point in the match I was so fed up with the sheer amount of Bradley's turnovers throughout the match that that's all I could see.

Honestly, I think Bradley was gassed and mentally tired. 5 high level games in 2 weeks is a crazy amount of effort to put forth when he's the guy that covers more ground than anybody else.

I totally get your frustration, I really do. But I think Bradley was in a no-win situation last night.

Also have given it more thought, and the only reason Zusi and Beckerman have looked competent in earlier games is because they come in fresh versus tired legs. Of course they have the edge there. But to ever think they could go toe-to-toe from the first minute is a lack of analysis by the coaches. Hell, Beckerman is the last man standing from our famed U-17 side, but even LD and Beasley have retired by now (not that I blame him for accepting a call up). It's time to start fresh with two years of continuity with a young team. Two years ago fans wanted to drop Brooks and now he's our stalwart because Klinsmann kept playing him and he progressed for club. Let's anoint some youth and let them step up so we can respectfully retire Beckerman, Jones, Zusi. But wondo can be kicked to the curb - he hasn't done enough or anything for a farewell.

 

[Gotham Gator]

That fourth Argentina goal? Yet another Michael Bradley giveaway. Ugh.

Nope. He passed it right to Birnbaum.

Was not a very good pass by Bradley, but I put more on Birnbaum there for whatever he it was that he was doing that wasn't receiving the pass.

Precisely. The ball was on his foot. He could have cleared it. He could have passed it off. Instead he didn't play it, and let it roll to the best player in the world. A total choke moment from a young player. I am glad that Jurgen put the kids in once the game was out of reach, but that's what can sometimes happen.

Messi - the best player in the world - received the ball just outside the box with no US player within 5 yards and nobody closed on him. We should be capable of keeping up with him while he is standing still but he had nobody near him. He passed it to Lavezzi running inside the box with nobody within 4-5 yards of him at either the start or end of his run. We left an entire half of the box unguarded while an opposing player ran through it at will. The closest US player - Beckerman - did his best impression of Pirlo and Lampard at the end of our Orlando game. But yes, the goal is all the keeper's fault. No, I'm not saying Guzan shone here, or even did moderately well. But this goal was an absolute team breakdown.

What actually happened is that nobody was marking Messi, and when he got it, 4 guys recognized he was uncovered and rushed at him. Nobody stayed home, and half the box was wide open. Totally disorganized set piece defending, and you know who that blame falls upon...

Except in the above play where they let an opposing player roam unmarked though the box and ARG's third goal where Brooks, whom I adore, got turned around, and then stood and watched as watched Higuain ran to goal, took a shot, got a rebound and shot again. Brooks took one of those "oops-I-should-have-kept-moving-but-now-it's-too-late" halting half-steps after the first shot was blocked because he knew he gave up on the play far too early. Cameron also gave up on that play to watch their keeper stiff one of the top strikers in the world one-on-one with no help and if he had any backup clearing the rebound maybe it's not 3-0.

Entirely correct. Simple mistake by Brooks. First big one of the tournament from him. Ball watching on all sides too.

Guzan was fine in this game. He made some good saves. His indecision on the first goal looked really bad, but that's just because he was hung out to dry. He couldn't have gotten to the ball - although he might have been able to block the header. But, if Lavezzi had gone down the line, there is a wide open net. Guzan forced him to make a tough shot with touch, and he did.