World Cup Qualifying - 2018 Russia

Gotham Gator said:
Regarding Italy vs. Spain - I understand if fans have a particular rooting interest and respect that. However, for the casual fan there is only one result to root for, and that is for Spain to beat the ever loving shit out of Italy. I want the program that has respect for our domestic league and the nuts to call in David Villa to prove a point against Italy and their arrogant shit of a manger, who has done nothing but denigrate MLS since he was appointed. I want Italy to pay the price and rethink their crap attitude.

Again, if you have pre-existing support for Italy - fine. Otherwise, fuck them.
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J Joseph Bianco please correct me if I am wrong in any of this, since I don't closely follow the Italian national team, but I feel like the Villa and Giovinco situations are very different. Villa is probably only there because Costa is out, and he already has the chemistry with many of the NT players. He also is a known entity. He's always shown up for the La Roja and been successful. None of Spain's strikers have really locked down the position since the days of Torres and Villa (Morata is getting there). He is a great locker room guy. He is also pretty flexible when it comes to where he can play on the front.

Giovinco has never been a mainstay of the Azzuri, and he doesn't have a ton of success when he has played. He has one goal. He also doesn't allow for a lot of formation flexibility. Italy don't play a two striker system, which is where Gio would be best suited. He's not even playing his best soccer right now. He was playing better in 2015. He hasn't been anywhere as consistent. And I think calling in a player just to be a free kick specialist is kinda stupid. You can't sub him in just for that.

That's not to say that the Italian coach doesn't have any respect for MLS, I just don't think it's as simple as saying, "well Villa got called up, so obviously Giovinco should too."
 
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mgarbowski said:
Oh great, more fodder for the block function -- a member who can't be bothered to write a single post about NYCFC in 2.5 years but has to come defend Italy's honor in his initial post.
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quit stalking the guy and let him use the forum in peace without being patronized
 
Seven said:
J Joseph Bianco please correct me if I am wrong in any of this, since I don't closely follow the Italian national team, but I feel like the Villa and Giovinco situations are very different. Villa is probably only there because Costa is out, and he already has the chemistry with many of the NT players. He also is a known entity. He's always shown up for the La Roja and been successful. None of Spain's strikers have really locked down the position since the days of Torres and Villa (Morata is getting there). He is a great locker room guy. He is also pretty flexible when it comes to where he can play on the front.

Giovinco has never been a mainstay of the Azzuri, and he doesn't have a ton of success when he has played. He has one goal. He also doesn't allow for a lot of formation flexibility. Italy don't play a two striker system, which is where Gio would be best suited. He's not even playing his best soccer right now. He was playing better in 2015. He hasn't been anywhere as consistent. And I think calling in a player just to be a free kick specialist is kinda stupid. You can't sub him in just for that.

That's not to say that the Italian coach doesn't have any respect for MLS, I just don't think it's as simple as saying, "well Villa got called up, so obviously Giovinco should too."
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my take on giovinco not being selected is because he needs to be the go to guy in the attack for him to succeed. It worked with all the teams hes played for except juve. this is because the other teams needed that guy who could shine.
as stated before, italy has many talented midfielders/playmakers/go to guys in this case they wouldnt need that one guy as they need many. this is where giovinco turns from a star to an average player. coaches realize this and dont pick him.
 
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Mario said:
my take on giovinco not being selected is because he needs to be the go to guy in the attack for him to succeed. It worked with all the teams hes played for except juve. this is because the other teams needed that guy who could shine.
as stated before, italy has many talented midfielders/playmakers/go to guys in this case they wouldnt need that one guy as they need many. this is where giovinco turns from a star to an average player. coaches realize this and dont pick him.
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to add on, in mls hes not beating world class defending like hed be doing on the big stage. its easy to make ethan white look like an amateur because he is an amateur
 
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also Seven Seven, im pretty sure the comments Gotham Gator Gotham Gator was referencing from Ventura were the ones where he said if you choose to play for MLS its going to have serious consequences on getting called up for the national team. It may sound shitty, but i dont think hes wrong about it.
 
derek_villa said:
Giovinco doesn't deserved to be called up and neither did Pirlo last year. There are so many good young Italian attacking players. Hard to make any arguement to take one off for Giovinco.
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Based on what I've seen of Giovinco, I think its absurd he hasn't been called up. But on the other hand, I won't pretend like I know Serie A all that well, so I can't jump 100% into that.

But, I absolutely disagree that its hard to make an argument to not have Giovinco on there. Sure, maybe he doesn't make it. But not able to make an argument for it???? Thats quite a stretch.

Again, I don't know Serie A all that well, but what I do know is two of their attacking players called up have barely seen time this year. Pellegrini has all of 6' in 2 matches and Bernardeschi has 18' in 2 matches.

But to further Gotham Gator Gotham Gator point, Ventura isn't selecting Giovinco, not because of his performances or skill, but because he is playing in MLS...

Giampiero Ventura believes "he plays in a league that doesn't count for much."

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...co-because-mls-doesnt-count-giampiero-ventura
 
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SoupInNYC said:
Based on what I've seen of Giovinco, I think its absurd he hasn't been called up. But on the other hand, I won't pretend like I know Serie A all that well, so I can't jump 100% into that.

But, I absolutely disagree that its hard to make an argument to not have Giovinco on there. Sure, maybe he doesn't make it. But not able to make an argument for it???? Thats quite a stretch.

Again, I don't know Serie A all that well, but what I do know is two of their attacking players called up have barely seen time this year. Pellegrini has all of 6' in 2 matches and Bernardeschi has 18' in 2 matches.

But to further Gotham Gator Gotham Gator point, Ventura isn't selecting Giovinco, not because of his performances or skill, but because he is playing in MLS...

Giampiero Ventura believes "he plays in a league that doesn't count for much."

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...co-because-mls-doesnt-count-giampiero-ventura
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you have players like Bellotti, Immobile, Eder, Insigne, Bernardeschi... i can go on and on... that deserve the spot more than giovinco.

ETA: and i actually like giovinco, ive been following him ever since his Juve days
 
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"The problem is that if you play in that type of league, and you get used to playing in that type of league, it becomes a problem of mentality."
-ventura
 
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SoupInNYC said:
Based on what I've seen of Giovinco, I think its absurd he hasn't been called up. But on the other hand, I won't pretend like I know Serie A all that well, so I can't jump 100% into that.

But, I absolutely disagree that its hard to make an argument to not have Giovinco on there. Sure, maybe he doesn't make it. But not able to make an argument for it???? Thats quite a stretch.

Again, I don't know Serie A all that well, but what I do know is two of their attacking players called up have barely seen time this year. Pellegrini has all of 6' in 2 matches and Bernardeschi has 18' in 2 matches.

But to further Gotham Gator Gotham Gator point, Ventura isn't selecting Giovinco, not because of his performances or skill, but because he is playing in MLS...

Giampiero Ventura believes "he plays in a league that doesn't count for much."

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...co-because-mls-doesnt-count-giampiero-ventura
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I don't think comparing Giovinco to those 2 are apples to apples. Berna is more a wide midfielder/winger, whereas Pellegrini is a holding midfielder. Giovinco plays like a striker or off Altidore. It's going to be incredibly hard for him to to unseat two 20+ goal scorers in Belotti and Immobile as well as Eder who would most likely come off the bench and play in any type of attacking position.
 
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MLS has players right now called to Switzerland (Dzemaili), Spain (Villa) and Belgium (Ciman). All of those countries are ranked higher than Italy and engaged in WCQ matches. The idea that the best player in MLS in his prime is not even worth a camp call-up to Italy at any time in the last 3 years is bullshit unjustified pride. Not even worthy of discussion.
 
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Let's get one thing straight. Villa isn't being called in to start and win a game, Spain outside of morata has no striker, so he makes the most sense instead of an unknown quality like Nolito in important matches. He's not coming to take over the team he's an insurance policy. He at the present is not a better winger than suso Pedro delofeu or asensio, or a better striker than morata. At most he'll be a super sub.

As for Gio, like mentioned above Italy has insigne immobile Eder and others to play that role. Playing extremely well in the MLS will only get you so far with looks from a national team because let's face it, again quoting above beating Ethan white for three goals is much easier than beating Sergio Ramos for three goals.
 
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Even putting aside whether Giovinco deserves a look (which I think he does), the manner in which it is addressed by the manager is condescending bullshit. It is one thing to elegantly deflect questions about whether he is good enough for the team. It is another to use those questions as an opportunity to arrogantly shit all over an entire league. Plus, his whole mentality is based on MLS 1.0, and he doesn't even realize that we've progressed two steps beyond that. He's an ignorant dick, and his team deserve to lose.
 
Gotham Gator said:
Even putting aside whether Giovinco deserves a look (which I think he does), the manner in which it is addressed by the manager is condescending bullshit. It is one thing to elegantly deflect questions about whether he is good enough for the team. It is another to use those questions as an opportunity to arrogantly shit all over an entire league. Plus, his whole mentality is based on MLS 1.0, and he doesn't even realize that we've progressed two steps beyond that. He's an ignorant dick, and his team deserve to lose.
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It was condescending. But objectively, it's not entirely without merit. MLS has improved dramatically but we're still not at the level of Serie A, Bundesliga, PL., etc. Giovinco came to MLS because he was never going to enjoy the success in Serie A that he could here.


And while Ventura said it, I'm willing to bet most of the top national team coaches feel the same way. Calling Villa back was an aberration because he's David Villa and Spain is a little thin in the front.

We don't have to like what Ventura said but to call him ignorant is a stretch.
 
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SanBartG said:
It was condescending. But objectively, it's not entirely without merit. MLS has improved dramatically but we're still not at the level of Serie A, Bundesliga, PL., etc. Giovinco came to MLS because he was never going to enjoy the success in Serie A that he could here.


And while Ventura said it, I'm willing to bet most of the top national team coaches feel the same way. Calling Villa back was an aberration because he's David Villa and Spain is a little thin in the front.

We don't have to like what Ventura said but to call him ignorant is a stretch.
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yeah i admitted it came off bad, but nothing he said was wrong.
 
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