Question on this for people who understand this stuff better than me. Does the cluster have to do with the fact that we sometimes press? Ring and Pirlo (not as much) sometimes act as a nuisance to the opposition's back line. Does that distort the heat map?
2017 Season Tactics Thread
- Thread starter Midas Mulligan
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Question on this for people who understand this stuff better than me. Does the cluster have to do with the fact that we sometimes press? Ring and Pirlo (not as much) sometimes act as a nuisance to the opposition's back line. Does that distort the heat map?
Here sthe midfielders heat maps:
I interpret that as Ring and Maxi acting as the #8s and Pirlo acting as the #6 in a midfield triangle.
So ring and maxis averages just end up at midfield since they are everywhere. Pirlo doesnt really cross midfield so his average is where he ends up most of the time.
the averages of the sets 0,100 and 50,50 are the same, but we need to pull in more data to interpret the data set if we only see the averages (not saying you dont know this, just trying to explain my thinking) I think you have to combine watching the game and looking at the heatmaps to make sense of those average position charts. They are also more important for players with more defined positions than the midfielders. If I see Villa's average at midfield, I know that he probably was dropping because he wasn't able to get service. If one winger shows up very deep it probably shows he was forced to defend more often. You can also see defensive shape via the averages. If we truly were playing some kind of 3 at the back you would see it even though it sometimes doesn't show on TV because TV follows the ball.
Here's the game by game position map of the players. The only thing I would take away from this is...who knows. But it is interesting to see how it's changed a bit. Our fullbacks have been further back in general since ORL.
This is in order (ORL, DC, MTL, SJE)
orl
dc
mtl
sje
This is in order (ORL, DC, MTL, SJE)
orl
dc
mtl
sje
in a single file if anyone wants it. Above are pngs, so someone more talented than myself could actually overlay them.
That's remarkable. Whether the strategy to do this is there nor not, we're essentially playing a flat midfield 3 that is interchangeable. Very interesting. Maybe we don't replace Pirlo with a 6. Maybe any CM will do then.
Also interesting to see that it seems like Wallace really covered for Matarrita a lot in the first match, but not a lot since. Harrison actually has dropped deeper. Could be that we are playing up the left side a lot intentionally where we have link up play.
Also interesting to see that it seems like Wallace really covered for Matarrita a lot in the first match, but not a lot since. Harrison actually has dropped deeper. Could be that we are playing up the left side a lot intentionally where we have link up play.
In the same vein - are there stats around counter attacking? I mentioned this in a game day thread, but thought I would bring it here. I feel like we generate better/more chances on the counter than we do from our possession.
I think that's not the case. My belief is Wallace is just getting averaged out higher, as he's had more touches in the opposition half (especially the box), than Jack.
Its hard to generate a lot of opportunities for counterattack when you have over 60% possession for the season.
Looks like Ring had to cover for RJ in the first match. That may have led to Norris' inclusion, and Ring playing more centrally after that.
Viera is exposing Pirlo for offense. Pirlo has one purpose in this system. Be an outlet out of the back and a safety net for players being pressed. The goal is to get a lead going into the second and later drop a winger for a mid and shut it down. That should also be the time Herrera could come in with fresh legs at the 65m mark for Pirlo. If we don't get the lead or are losing, it's Viera's job to implement the in-game tactical changes necessary to at least come away with a point.
From someone that has watched Pirlo play a lot with Juventus, Milan and Italia...I want to explain his play style and why it's not working here as expected, besides the fact that he's about to be 38. He's a very disciplined player. He stays in his lane. He expects everyone else around him to put in the work. I'm not saying he's a selfish player, but it's borderline. He's not sitting back watching the play because he doesn't want to exert himself, he's wants others around him to successfully pick up the play. If you look at the players he's previously been on the pitch with, they are world class players in their prime. They were capable of picking up that slack as he quarterbacks from the back. He dosen't have that luxury here. Nobody in MLS does. This is an -all hands on deck- league. There's very little specialized roles here as you see in Europe. MLS requires players to have high work rates both ways. Not because it's such a physical league, but because the lack of skill requires players to bust their ass to compensate. This isn't a league for 38 year old Pirlo or 30 year old Pirlo.
All that being said, I think this team is good and will continue to get better. I think all the doom and gloom surrounded Pirlo is overly dramatic to be honest. There's plenty of players on this team that f up way more than him game in and game out.
From someone that has watched Pirlo play a lot with Juventus, Milan and Italia...I want to explain his play style and why it's not working here as expected, besides the fact that he's about to be 38. He's a very disciplined player. He stays in his lane. He expects everyone else around him to put in the work. I'm not saying he's a selfish player, but it's borderline. He's not sitting back watching the play because he doesn't want to exert himself, he's wants others around him to successfully pick up the play. If you look at the players he's previously been on the pitch with, they are world class players in their prime. They were capable of picking up that slack as he quarterbacks from the back. He dosen't have that luxury here. Nobody in MLS does. This is an -all hands on deck- league. There's very little specialized roles here as you see in Europe. MLS requires players to have high work rates both ways. Not because it's such a physical league, but because the lack of skill requires players to bust their ass to compensate. This isn't a league for 38 year old Pirlo or 30 year old Pirlo.
All that being said, I think this team is good and will continue to get better. I think all the doom and gloom surrounded Pirlo is overly dramatic to be honest. There's plenty of players on this team that f up way more than him game in and game out.
Also, does anyone really know what we played last weekend? I was too distracted from the game due to issues with kids having stomach flu. Both MLS and WhoScored show us in a 4-3-3, which is not correct, the team site suggests it was 3-4-3, with Harrison and Mata wide, but heat maps are not entirely clear either.
I had it as a 352 with Wallace and Maxi rotating from left forward to CAM. There were definitely 3 at the back, whoscored player positions shows that, and harrison definitely wasn't a right forward, the heat maps show that. So there weren't 3 forwards.
Sorry no time for screen shots
Discussing this in the media thread: http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/nycfc-in-the-media-thread-2017.5195/page-13#post-194275
Discussions on this point are kind of all over the forums, but I think this seems to be the right spot. Maybe a mod can weigh in.
Threads crossing over is to be expected to some extent. If one thread becomes overrun with chat that really belongs somewhere else then it may be required to move some posts around but at the moment I think we'd prefer for chat to flow naturally.
This all said, it should be obvious that if tactics are going to be discussed anywhere then it should be in the tactics thread, not the media one.
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