2024 U.S. Open Cup

I haven't been a fan of soccer in the US long enough to understand the historic significance of USOC, but at this point in time the only reason I can see for MLS teams to participate would be to give lower league teams the chance to shine against Messi and co, so to speak, to make the pyramid more robust and viable. But if MLS fans are tuning USOC out anyway, that's also not working. MLS getting out of USOC is pretty much an acknowledgment of the gulf that exists between MLS and any viable lower league.
One of the historical reasons nobody pays much attention to the lower leagues is because we don't have promotion/relegation here. So if you follow an MLS team you'll never see them in the lower league as we don't have relegation, and if you're a fan of a lower league team they can't get promoted to the top league. Which means there's zero connection between the leagues, and not much incentive for MLS teams to play in the tournament as things currently stand. Only a very few USL teams have ever been "promoted" to MLS, but to do that they have had build new stadiums <and> pony up $200 million or so to join the league as an expansion team. So if you're running a USL team that's been a successful business there's almost a disincentive to move up to MLS because of the huge cost of entry (as opposed to England, say, where "all" you have to do is be in the top three of the next lower league to get promoted).

So the bottom line is that from an MLS perspective the US Open Cup has little benefit and potentially clogs up the schedule. And because of the disjointed soccer landscape here there's not much incentive for the upper leagues to play against the lower leagues. So basically there's no real soccer pyramid here, more like there's several unconnected cubes that have little to do with each other.
 

Interesting paywalled article. Excerpts:

It was a move for which MLS was eviscerated on social media, .... But the reaction this time seemed different, marking a schism in the soccer community.
I'll start off by saying that if I was an MLS owner, I'd consider the move, too....
The Open Cup is an inconvenience. Like FIFA windows. Summer championships. Bad weather.....
I will also say that I'm sympathetic to MLS on many fronts....

American soccer's failure was that it did not take off across the country a century earlier when it could have planted roots and grown slowly and organically and when costs (and risks) were low....
The NASL failed ... spectacularly. The closest anyone has come to solving the business puzzle is Alan Rothenberg ... with his cadre of young attorneys from Latham & Watkins and the single-entity plan they devised for MLS, which launched in 1996 with FIFA's backing. Still, the league almost collapsed five years later....
[discussion of spending revenue that adds helpful context to the decision not to expand the salary budget]...
On Sunday, FIFA confirmed plans to extend the 32-team club tournament
[FIFA Club World Cup] from June 15-July 13 [2025], a span of 29 days. Headliner teams like Real Madrid, Manchester City and Bayern Munich are among the clubs that will be spending almost a month here playing in an official competition. Their goal? Mine the U.S. soccer market.. . . What will happen if foreign teams get the green light to play league matches in the United States?...
No other country has developed the pro game to the level it has in face of competition from multiple established pro sports....
But that doesn't make the decision right....


Possibly the most balanced and informative article I've read on the business of MLS. The fact that Liga MX, EPL, and a few other leagues are (1) currently more popular than MLS in the United States, and (2) all trying to expand their footprint here, both probably weigh harder on the MLS owners than any of us realize. MLS isn't just competing with the big 4 US sports leagues: foreign soccer leagues are more of an existential threat to the league. Spend more to get better players is simplistic and how the NASL failed.
I don't know if there's a way to square the circle. I'm somewhat disgusted with US soccer fans who'll have nothing to do with MLS. You don't have to pretend it's as good as whatever your favorite league is to recognize it's reasonable quality, quite entertaining and worth supporting if you want to grow the game here.
And pro-rel fans are delusional. We are lucky if there are 120-150 clubs in the entire world whose finances are not on a knife's edge year to year and 29 of those are in MLS. I'm confidently certain that MLS is the only league in the world where no teams finish the year thinking "well we made it another year, but not sure we'll get through the next 5." Pro Rel is a recipe for fiscal chaos.
 
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Interesting paywalled article. Excerpts:

It was a move for which MLS was eviscerated on social media, .... But the reaction this time seemed different, marking a schism in the soccer community.
I'll start off by saying that if I was an MLS owner, I'd consider the move, too....
The Open Cup is an inconvenience. Like FIFA windows. Summer championships. Bad weather.....
I will also say that I'm sympathetic to MLS on many fronts....

American soccer's failure was that it did not take off across the country a century earlier when it could have planted roots and grown slowly and organically and when costs (and risks) were low....
The NASL failed ... spectacularly. The closest anyone has come to solving the business puzzle is Alan Rothenberg ... with his cadre of young attorneys from Latham & Watkins and the single-entity plan they devised for MLS, which launched in 1996 with FIFA's backing. Still, the league almost collapsed five years later....
[discussion of spending revenue that adds helpful context to the decision not to expand the salary budget]...
On Sunday, FIFA confirmed plans to extend the 32-team club tournament
[FIFA Club World Cup] from June 15-July 13 [2025], a span of 29 days. Headliner teams like Real Madrid, Manchester City and Bayern Munich are among the clubs that will be spending almost a month here playing in an official competition. Their goal? Mine the U.S. soccer market.. . . What will happen if foreign teams get the green light to play league matches in the United States?...
No other country has developed the pro game to the level it has in face of competition from multiple established pro sports....
But that doesn't make the decision right....


Possibly the most balanced and informative article I've read on the business of MLS. The fact that Liga MX, EPL, and a few other leagues are (1) currently more popular than MLS in the United States, and (2) all trying to expand their footprint here, both probably weigh harder on the MLS owners than any of us realize. MLS isn't just competing with the big 4 US sports leagues: foreign soccer leagues are more of an existential threat to the league. Spend more to get better players is simplistic and how the NASL failed.
I don't know if there's a way to square the circle. I'm somewhat disgusted with US soccer fans who'll have nothing to do with MLS. You don't have to pretend it's as good as whatever your favorite league is to recognize it's reasonable quality, quite entertaining and worth supporting if you want to grow the game here.
And pro-rel fans are delusional. We are lucky if there are 120-150 clubs in the entire world whose finances are not on a knife's edge year to year and 29 of those are in MLS. I'm confidently certain that MLS is the only league in the world where no teams finish the year thinking "well we made it another year, but not sure we'll get through the next 5." Pro Rel is a recipe for fiscal chaos.
So you mean my hot take that MLS just doesn't get it wasn't nuanced enough?
 
So you mean my hot take that MLS just doesn't get it wasn't nuanced enough?
I think more that MLS was wrong to drop USOC, but he fully understands all the reasons why and clearly wanted to help others see the context. Also, he approves of MLS being a closed league with a structured salary system, but because it's a closed league, MLS needs more, not less, outreach and connections to the wider US soccer community and USOC should be part of that.
 
Great stuff. Who is the author?
Paul Kennedy, who basically is Soccer America. They have other authors, but he writes a lot and is editor in chief. His opinions don't align on any axis, such fans vs players vs owners, domestic/foreign, amateur/pro etc. And since he writes well, that makes him usually quite interesting because you can't predict what he'll say, but he'll say it well. He does have some hobby horses, notably dissent v officials, head injuries, and what he considers undue deference by referees to keepers in any collision. But everyone is entitled to some of those, and I can't say he's wrong about any of them.
ETA: I just realized that on his 3 pet issues, he's strongly pro official on one (dissent) and anti-official on another (keeper collisions), which supports the the idea he judges issues on their merits rather than taking a side reflexively.
 
Paul Kennedy, who basically is Soccer America. They have other authors, but he writes a lot and is editor in chief. His opinions don't align on any axis, such fans vs players vs owners, domestic/foreign, amateur/pro etc. And since he writes well, that makes him usually quite interesting because you can't predict what he'll say, but he'll say it well. He does have some hobby horses, notably dissent v officials, head injuries, and what he considers undue deference by referees to keepers in any collision. But everyone is entitled to some of those, and I can't say he's wrong about any of them.
ETA: I just realized that on his 3 pet issues, he's strongly pro official on one (dissent) and anti-official on another (keeper collisions), which supports the the idea he judges issues on their merits rather than taking a side reflexively.

I genuinely valued his perspective. Amidst the all of complaints, no one seems to present a compelling business case for the MLS's involvement in the USOC from either a financial or growth perspective. Unlike MLS games or the League Cup, the USOC doesn't bring in TV deal revenue and often suffers from low attendance. We were just discussing the need for MLS to either expand salary caps and rosters to accommodate the congested schedule or consider cutting the least beneficial subset of games.

One of my fondest childhood memories from growing up in Rochester is attending the 1996 US Open Cup (USOC) match, where the Rhinos faced off against Carlos Valderrama and the Tampa Bay Mutiny. So, I fully comprehend how disheartening this decision must be for many fans. However, I also recognize its necessity.

We're discussing a league that still relies on self-subsidization through expansion fees, with players often flying coach on domestic flights. The financial strains make it impractical to bear the losses associated with participating in the USOC purely for the sake of tradition and nostalgia.
 
MLS Response to USSF:


It doesn't really say anything, especially about whether first teams will participate in USOC.
 
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they will be petty and schedule league games on open cup dates and say "oops too bad"

I thought they were losing USOC so they could schedule games on open cup dates. It's coming out today, so we'll see what they're doing.
 
Why can't MLS teams just register all their MLS Pro team players to their USOC roster and then call it a day?
 
What's weird about how this statement is worded "inclusive competition", it's almost as if they think the Next Pro teams should be able to be included.

they may not have official stance, but i think they are ok with the independent ones to be included. like rochester was.
 
What's weird about how this statement is worded "inclusive competition", it's almost as if they think the Next Pro teams should be able to be included.
My guess is they did not think it through.
USL Management meeting:
- what should we say?
- MLS should play in the USOC, because it's "open" which means any team can play so we're calling MLS out for being a closed league
- how does "authentic and inclusive" sound?
- great, everyone likes "inclusive"

Outsider:
- so does "inclusive" include MLS Next Pro?
 
Looks like we're not competing in the U.S. Open Cup this year (or at least not the first team, maybe NYCFC II). Who knows?
I get that the league is moving away from the open cup and I guess that’s fine. But also it seems really odd to me to have only a select few teams qualify to be in it. Isn’t called “open” for a reason in that every US based team is invited?
 
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