European Super League

[Fantazma]

this is not them leaving their respective leagues, its leaving champions league and forming their own tourney. One where UEFA (FIFA) doesnt take most of the money. The money goes to the clubs and the player.

yes there seems to be some confusion. The teams are not leaving their leagues they just dont want to play the UEFA champions league. instead midweek games will be in their new superleague. Now if the local FA's and leagues are cool with it is another matter.

 

[Shwafta]

this is not them leaving their respective leagues, its leaving champions league and forming their own tourney. One where UEFA (FIFA) doesnt take most of the money. The money goes to the clubs and the player.

And leaves all the other clubs in the dust. Any clubs not in this league will get pittance of money (OH and btw premier league media rights end this year.... so you can imagine if this goes through, the premier league media deal will likely lessen as well by a LOT) - how can they even compare or fight with the other clubs? Now, at least they have a chance (and we've seen it happen a few times in various leagues in the past few years).

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

UEFA could have avoided this with better Champions League management and better distribution of funds. UEFA ignored warning signs and now reaps what it sowed.

 

[mgarbowski]

It's interesting how the 2 people so far who have come to defend the Super League have made the point that the SL clubs are not leaving their domestic leagues, as if this were some sort of selfless concession. This is a completely wrong take, as evidenced by the fact that the Leagues and UEFA are using the threat of banning those teams from domestic play as a very potent penalty. The Big 12 (or 15) need domestic play. Without it, they lose their initial base of support, lots of money, and for most, a guaranteed successful season. With SL money guaranteed, they can recruit very easily, and dominate their domestic leagues even more than they do currently. This will assuage their fans, who will otherwise be upset if they only have the SL competition, and half of them have losing records. By staying in the leagues, however, they take a sledgehammer to the remaining competitive remnants of domestic play, with UCL has already destroyed almost completely everywhere but England (and where it has still done significant damage).

 

[Shwafta]

It's interesting how the 2 people so far who have come to defend the Super League have made the point that the SL clubs are not leaving their domestic leagues, as if this were some sort of selfless concession. This is a completely wrong take, as evidenced by the fact that the Leagues and UEFA are using the threat of banning those teams from domestic play as a very potent penalty. The Big 12 (or 15) need domestic play. Without it, they lose their initial base of support, lots of money, and for most, a guaranteed successful season. With SL money guaranteed, they can recruit very easily, and dominate their domestic leagues even more than they do currently. This will assuage their fans, who will otherwise be upset if they only have the SL competition, and half of them have losing records. By staying in the leagues, however, they take a sledgehammer to the remaining competitive remnants of domestic play, with UCL has already destroyed almost completely everywhere but England (and where it has still done significant damage).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384062591450771465

According to source, some of those involved in ESL call traditional supporters of clubs “legacy fans” while they are focused instead on the “fans of the future” who want superstar names *ESL insists modelling shows solidarity payments will be boosted £10bn Euros over 23 seasons)

 

[mgarbowski]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384062591450771465

According to source, some of those involved in ESL call traditional supporters of clubs “legacy fans” while they are focused instead on the “fans of the future” who want superstar names *ESL insists modelling shows solidarity payments will be boosted £10bn Euros over 23 seasons)

And it might work for them, and they're not alone.
I just read something about the Red Sox this weekend wearing special Boston Marathon bombing commemorative uniforms. A club rep told the press (quoting/paraphrasing from memory): "yes, it might upset the traditional [aka legacy] fans but we're OK with that."

But it's a big risk if the ESL gets cut off from domestic competition. If, say, Arsenal or AC Milan end up in the bottom half of the ESL 7 of the first 10 years, and they have no domestic success to celebrate, they ain't winning many new fans of the future. They'll just end up the Aston Villa of the ESL.

 

[Fantazma]

It's interesting how the 2 people so far who have come to defend the Super League have made the point that the SL clubs are not leaving their domestic leagues, as if this were some sort of selfless concession. This is a completely wrong take, as evidenced by the fact that the Leagues and UEFA are using the threat of banning those teams from domestic play as a very potent penalty. The Big 12 (or 15) need domestic play. Without it, they lose their initial base of support, lots of money, and for most, a guaranteed successful season. With SL money guaranteed, they can recruit very easily, and dominate their domestic leagues even more than they do currently. This will assuage their fans, who will otherwise be upset if they only have the SL competition, and half of them have losing records. By staying in the leagues, however, they take a sledgehammer to the remaining competitive remnants of domestic play, with UCL has already destroyed almost completely everywhere but England (and where it has still done significant damage).

i personally dont think they will ban them ( im sure there will be litigation). The problem is that these teams ( or at least majority) have too much power now. Kicking them out will hurt themselves as well. The big TV deals come because TV stations want to show the Liverpool vs Man U or Man City. Arsenal vs Tottenham, the probably don't get big ratings with showing a West Ham vs Everton. They seem to be banking on the global fan now not so much the local fan who got them to be the superteam they are now. They are global brands now.

In terms of competitiveness, the SL "claims" they will have invites every year, so if a Leicester wins the PL they can technically be invited to participate for the year they won. of course no one will know until this actually happens.

UEFA could have avoided this with better Champions League management and better distribution of funds. UEFA ignored warning signs and now reaps what it sowed.

this. it seems expanding the groups stage to have more games and the new format was their final straw to go ahead with this plan. Its just a battle for money, the big teams want more UEFA said "no and now play more group stage games" so now they want to leave and play their own tournament.

 

[Davo15]

Sad but true. the teams are brands now. They might as well drop the city or town/neighborhood from the teams names and just be the Red Team or the Blue team etc. since the geographic locations of the teams and the areas they are supposed to represent don't mean anything to these new global "customers" their trying to attract .

 

[Shwafta]

i personally dont think they will ban them ( im sure there will be litigation). The problem is that these teams ( or at least majority) have too much power now. Kicking them out will hurt themselves as well. The big TV deals come because TV stations want to show the Liverpool vs Man U or Man City. Arsenal vs Tottenham, the probably don't get big ratings with showing a West Ham vs Everton. They seem to be banking on the global fan now not so much the local fan who got them to be the superteam they are now. They are global brands now.

In terms of competitiveness, the SL "claims" they will have invites every year, so if a Leicester wins the PL they can technically be invited to participate for the year they won. of course no one will know until this actually happens.



this. it seems expanding the groups stage to have more games and the new format was their final straw to go ahead with this plan. Its just a battle for money, the big teams want more UEFA said "no and now play more group stage games" so now they want to leave and play their own tournament.

I wouldn't be so opposed to the whole thing if it was set up as a fair system. Oh? UEFA doesn't give money properly and you want to better that with more money to everyone, and start your own league? Cool! ...But have it set up the same way as the champions league qualification process, or have it set up with the same format as the champions league. And let the teams in it not be allowed to stay in in no matter what for 23 years. (the current deal is 23 years) That would be more fair. The teams at the top of the leagues and Europe 23 years ago are mostly not the same ones that are there now. The ones that didn't make it long-term didn't why? because they were run poorly. The Hamburg, Schalke, Aston Villa, Newcastles of the world.

In a world full of trying to give everyone a fair shot regardless of background, and all these clubs going with their anti-racism messages and all that crap, this is the most anti-equality of any kind move that can happen.

 

[Fantazma]

I wouldn't be so opposed to the whole thing if it was set up as a fair system. Oh? UEFA doesn't give money properly and you want to better that with more money to everyone, and start your own league? Cool! ...But have it set up the same way as the champions league qualification process, or have it set up with the same format as the champions league. And let the teams in it not be allowed to stay in in no matter what for 23 years. (the current deal is 23 years) That would be more fair. The teams at the top of the leagues and Europe 23 years ago are mostly not the same ones that are there now. The ones that didn't make it long-term didn't why? because they were run poorly. The Hamburg, Schalke, Aston Villa, Newcastles of the world.

In a world full of trying to give everyone a fair shot regardless of background, and all these clubs going with their anti-racism messages and all that crap, this is the most anti-equality of any kind move that can happen.

The problem is that in their eyes, the Aston Villas, Newcastles, Hamburgs, havent been in one in years ( or decades). Schalke did although its on and off with them. So they want to protect their interests ( just as UEFA do with the champions league), so like i said its each group wanting bigger piece of the pie. This is why i put the euroleague as an example. They do allow league champions and other "wildcards" but of course we wont know how this will work until it happens ( if it does).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384062591450771465

According to source, some of those involved in ESL call traditional supporters of clubs “legacy fans” while they are focused instead on the “fans of the future” who want superstar names *ESL insists modelling shows solidarity payments will be boosted £10bn Euros over 23 seasons)

Its true though, people these days are more messi and ronaldo fans than they are barcelona and juventus fans. The same can be said for Mbappe and Haaland, the fans will watch the teams they are in and are fans of the players not so much of PSG or Dortmund.

The NBA is a clear example of this now, fans are lebron fans or harden or Durant fans. The fans follow them on whatever teams they are a part of.

 

[mgarbowski]

i personally dont think they will ban them ( im sure there will be litigation). The problem is that these teams ( or at least majority) have too much power now. Kicking them out will hurt themselves as well. The big TV deals come because TV stations want to show the Liverpool vs Man U or Man City. Arsenal vs Tottenham, the probably don't get big ratings with showing a West Ham vs Everton. They seem to be banking on the global fan now not so much the local fan who got them to be the superteam they are now. They are global brands now.

In terms of competitiveness, the SL "claims" they will have invites every year, so if a Leicester wins the PL they can technically be invited to participate for the year they won. of course no one will know until this actually happens.



this. it seems expanding the groups stage to have more games and the new format was their final straw to go ahead with this plan. Its just a battle for money, the big teams want more UEFA said "no and now play more group stage games" so now they want to leave and play their own tournament.

Yes, Like I said I have my doubts the leagues and UEFA will follow through on their threats. And, I agree there are no angels in this fight, which circles back to my first post on this last night in the other thread. I can't believe I'm siding with the regional confederation.

But I'd love to see the leagues and UEFA follow through. Because I think they win, and if the don't I will actually become more interested in the domestic leagues. I realize I am a non-majority position on this, but the lack of competition in the big European domestic leagues has destroyed my interest. A Bundesliga without Bayern, France without PSG, England w/o the Big 6, are all more interesting to me. But again, I'm a major outlier in this regard.

 

[Shwafta]

The problem is that in their eyes, the Aston Villas, Newcastles, Hamburgs, havent been in one in years ( or decades). Schalke did although its on and off with them. So they want to protect their interests ( just as UEFA do with the champions league), so like i said its each group wanting bigger piece of the pie. This is why i put the euroleague as an example. They do allow league champions and other "wildcards" but of course we wont know how this will work until it happens ( if it does).



Its true though, people these days are more messi and ronaldo fans than they are barcelona and juventus fans. The same can be said for Mbappe and Haaland, the fans will watch the teams they are in and are fans of the players not so much of PSG or Dortmund.

The NBA is a clear example of this now, fans are lebron fans or harden or Durant fans. The fans follow them on whatever teams they are a part of.

They haven't, but recently you have new teams coming in. A great example being Atalanta, Leicester, Granada... All starting to make names for themselves in recent years.

I just don't think it's a good idea at all. We were all up in arms when Atlanta got the CCL spot, and this is basically the same thing except instead of it being a one-off that Arsenal/Tottenham get selected for the 'Super League', it's an every season thing.

 

[Fantazma]

They haven't, but recently you have new teams coming in. A great example being Atalanta, Leicester, Granada... All starting to make names for themselves in recent years.

I just don't think it's a good idea at all. We were all up in arms when Atlanta got the CCL spot, and this is basically the same thing except instead of it being a one-off that Arsenal/Tottenham get selected for the 'Super League', it's an every season thing.

you right. The same problem with atlanta and their spot, although the context is a whole lot different

 

[QuigrNYCFC]

Recent news out of England.

- Some team board members are not in agreement.
- Big 6 Premier League teams may be kicked out of the league.
- Club owners are "secretly delighted" with their players not being able to play in World Cups/Fifa Events because it means they'll play less games.
- Owners knew there was going to be bad PR
- "Our primary job is profits, the wider good of the game is a secondary concern."
- Teams would field weaker teams for domestic league games with focus being entirely on super league.

 

[Marito]

Yes, Like I said I have my doubts the leagues and UEFA will follow through on their threats. And, I agree there are no angels in this fight, which circles back to my first post on this last night in the other thread. I can't believe I'm siding with the raional confederation.

But I'd love to see the leagues and UEFA follow through. Because I think they win, and if the don't I will actually become more interested in the domestic leagues. I realize I am a non-majority position on this, but the lack of competition in the big European domestic leagues has destroyed my interest. A Bundesliga without Bayern, France without PSG, England w/o the Big 6, are all more interesting to me. But again, I'm a major outlier in this regard.

I am 200% with you. It would be a dream come true to see the big boys kicked out of the domestic leagues, and trying to find alternative avenues to stay relevant (at their level of relevance, which is of course Marvel archvillain level). The corrupt and inefficient national federations punishing the global super-clubs is comparable to national governments trying to punish or regulate (which is the same thing at this point, because their model is complete domination and to eliminate all comers) Google or Amazon through legislation despite the companies being richer and more powerful than most countries. Still the leagues, the participation in WC and FIFA membership rest with the federations.

 

[Fantazma]

Recent news out of England.

- Some team board members are not in agreement.
- Big 6 Premier League teams may be kicked out of the league.
- Club owners are "secretly delighted" with their players not being able to play in World Cups/Fifa Events because it means they'll play less games.
- Owners knew there was going to be bad PR
- "Our primary job is profits, the wider good of the game is a secondary concern."
- Teams would field weaker teams for domestic league games with focus being entirely on super league.

is a player going to willingly give up their millions to play the world cup? Alot of them love the WC and playing for their NT but giving up their payday will be a tough ask for some.

 

[QuigrNYCFC]

is a player going to willingly give up their millions to play the world cup? Alot of them love the WC and playing for their NT but will giving up their payday will be a tough ask for some.

Every player dreams to play in World Cups. A player strike would have to follow.

 

[Fantazma]

Every player dreams to play in World Cups. A player strike would have to follow.

thats what im saying, there will be some who say screw it i wont play in the WC any more and others will protest. i do not think it will be unanimous. This affects federations outside of europe now and they will want their best players in the world cup, but how are you going to ask someone to take a paycut ( assuming only PSG and Bayern can match what some of these players are making in this superleague teams) just to play in the WC.

 

[QuigrNYCFC]

thats what im saying, there will be some who say screw it i wont play in the WC any more and others will protest. i do not think it will be unanimous. This affects federations outside of europe now and they will want their best players in the world cup, but how are you going to ask someone to take a paycut ( assuming only PSG and Bayern can match what some of these players are making in this superleague teams) just to play in the WC.

Yeah I can't imagine players like Phil Foden, Chrisian Pulisic, Mo Salah etc. not wanting to represent their countries. I would imagine they'd be willing to take a pay cut to leave in order to get that opportunity.

The owners are looking so cliché here. So out of touch with reality.

 

[Davo15]

I'm honestly not sure what would be worse between these teams being kicked out of domestic competition all together or the Euroleague basketball format where they field weakened teams in their national leagues?