Yeah, if this is true, nothing else matters.
Kreis Officially Out At NYCFC
- Thread starter The Toe
- Start date
yes agreed, i think we landed in the left tail end of the distribution of potential outcomes. unfortunately. plenty of blames to go around on everyone involved. hopefully with Kries gone, psychologically it refocusing people on the important future building
You can if that ownership doesn't seem to understand what it takes to be successful in this league. It's not Kreis's fault we played half the year with only one DP and essentially replacement level players. It's not Kreis's fault he was forced to start an out-of-form Lampard for critical matches.
Kreis has a proven track record of building competitive MLS teams with limited resources. If CFG let him do his job and gave him some time to build, I think he could have gotten it done here, too. But this shows that CFG doesn't understand that this isn't like Man City, where they injected millions into a lousy club and were suddenly challenging for trophies. MLS doesn't work that way.
Lets talk about how un-american this is, the inability to come in, spending millions of dollars, and be the best - hell thats what practically everything including elections is based on in America.
That is false. Read the HRB(?) article talking about his time at RSL. He has no proven track record, even if he gets all the credit for RSL's limited and streaky success, it is ONE team, that does not make a track record.
Hmmm. Another good perspective.
I think this is interesting because it seems CFG are trying to push the market in MLS. MLS may not work that way right now but soccer does. The top teams are the top teams because they spend the most money on the best talent. In addition, MLS does work that way. Look at LA. Every new rule we see is seemingly tailor made for LA to be able to add another high value player.
I've read the HRB article (assuming you mean "Deconstructing Kreis"). In addition to it being horribly written, it neglects to mention that Kreis's RSL teams made the playoffs seven years in a row, with two finals appearances, including one cup win. That is a very consistent record over a non-negligible period of time.
Kreis was hamstrung in his first season, limited not only by the dearth of talent one would expect at an expansion team, but also by an ownership group that put other interests above fielding the best possible team. Does CFG really think that Kreis was the only thing holding this team back from a playoff appearance? If so, that's very disconcerting.
Buddy see this rebuttal...he tried to trade Poku away in 2015...and all the urban legend.
{http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2015/10/23/9605254/deconstructing-jason-kreis-the-manager}
Anyway, we should stop discussing him. Even if he is good, at best he was not the right fit at the time....so lets all move on
Nikita, you just offered proof he might be a good conditioning coach based on your once participation of his training camp. It has nothing to do with if he is a good head coach or anything else. Listen to the Eric Wynalda podcast someone else posted above...conditioning is not the biggest part of head coach job, buddy.
- Neds stat box is misleading. Just look at this. You might see 86% passing completion and think that's "effective" football. It's not when you scroll down and see style of play as layoffs and short passes. One key thing they left out... BACKWARDS. Even looking at overall ratings over the season, Ned is at 22... down with a group that was either injured or just didn't get much playing time. For 1884 minutes, he has managed 2 goals in a lightning strike game and 1 assist. Poku has 4 goals 6 assists and an 81% PSR in 983 minutes...
I'm not sure that I argued that Poku got enough minutes. If you extrapolate his performance in small minutes to games where he plays the full 90 (and to be clear, I'm not sure you really can - he can't play as physically if he's having to save some gas for all 90), he's certainly starting quality, and given that Kreis was given full control over his lineups (not sure he was w/r/t Lampard and Pirlo), Poku probably should have received more minutes. But people have been complaining all year even when Grabavoy comes off the bench - Grabavoy's far and away better than any of the other options we have coming off the bench.
- True on Mix but he is young and capable. That will be a great measure of what this next coach is made of; if he can direct Mix into the player that he is supposed to be.
Mix is a decent cog in an already good team, but is not a guy you can depend on as a true gamechanger. He has fantastic ball skills but lacks the vision or creativity to make plays happen on a consistent basis. I can't blame a coach for trying to find a place where he can contribute. He does some nice things, but isn't worth the money we pay him - I'd trade him for Sacha from NYRB in a second.
- Nobody that I recall hated Mullins. The guy has been fantastic for us in his limited time!
I read several posts on here that questioned why Mullins was coming in the game, and were very, very negative on his impact. I remember it around the Montreal road game.
These guys can play. There is no doubt about that. They are not speedsters but their cunning far outweighs their lack of speed. So, as "old" as they may be, they can still contribute greatly.
We didn't see it last year, and there's another year on the tires this year. And "cunning" really only gets you so far when you aren't surrounded by talent that can complete plays - pinging in great passes only means so much when Villa's the only player that can get on the end of them.
I'm not arguing that they can't help - of course Pirlo and Lampard can play better than they showed this past year. But are they effective uses of designated player spots on the field (rather than just selling tickets)? Absolutely not.
- He didn't need to get a on a mic and scream but he needed to show leadership. I never SAW it in any form. I said the same thing about Iraola. Is he a leader? Yes. His career proves that. Was he the right kind of leader here? Nope. Thus, he was quickly shuttled to the bench.
It's not Kreis' job to show leadership to the fans. It's his job to show leadership to the players. And other than a few vague quotes that have either been fabricated (the one from the comedian and the "I'd rather lose under another manager than win under Kreis" that was actually a Chelsea joke) or taken out of context, I don't know that I have any window into that. I really don't give a shit about a manager's facial expressions on the sidelines. I may be alone in this, but that doesn't matter to me.
- "At one stage in his career." Interesting, different rule set for Pirlo and Lampard. Let's chalk this one up to misspeaking. Wingert was the type of player that you built a team up WITH, not around. Around implies that the subject is the center piece.
It's a different rule set because we're talking about two completely different things. Kreis was making a roster construction philosophy statement about how you win in MLS. And under those standards, he was 100% correct - guys of Wingert's type are how you succeed in MLS, and not the Thierry Henry signings.
You can't build around Pirlo and Lampard because they'll only be here for one or two more years. By the time you brought in shuttlers to complement Pirlo, he'd be retired. Because of the roster acquisition methodology in MLS, you can't turn over a roster to fit a new philosophy the way you can overseas. That's why a measured approach that's painstakingly consistent with a guiding philosophy is critical. That's what Kreis had at RSL, and that's what he's not been given the opportunity to do here.
- They're world class. Period. They didn't just dominate on arrival but that's a good thing. The league is competitive and coaches know how to adjust tactics. Saying Pirlo is not world class and he just played a CL Final is absurd. Same for Lampard. He is a world class player. Still.
They were world class. The Frank Lampard we saw last year is a guy you bring off the bench for a late winner. Pirlo is world class in the right system, and you can't build the kind of team that Pirlo works with in MLS -- not in one year.
The next coach will have certainly have his hands full but he will also have a much greater frame of reference.
I totally lack faith that CFG is going about this the right way, and think some here are blinded by a misguided distrust of a manager they didn't connect with. I can't fault Kreis for pushing back on a CFG administration that I myself considered full of shit all year.
Edit: That being said, Rox - appreciate the response.
I'm not sure that I argued that Poku got enough minutes. If you extrapolate his performance in small minutes to games where he plays the full 90 (and to be clear, I'm not sure you really can - he can't play as physically if he's having to save some gas for all 90), he's certainly starting quality, and given that Kreis was given full control over his lineups (not sure he was w/r/t Lampard and Pirlo), Poku probably should have received more minutes. But people have been complaining all year even when Grabavoy comes off the bench - Grabavoy's far and away better than any of the other options we have coming off the bench.
- True on Mix but he is young and capable. That will be a great measure of what this next coach is made of; if he can direct Mix into the player that he is supposed to be.
Mix is a decent cog in an already good team, but is not a guy you can depend on as a true gamechanger. He has fantastic ball skills but lacks the vision or creativity to make plays happen on a consistent basis. I can't blame a coach for trying to find a place where he can contribute. He does some nice things, but isn't worth the money we pay him - I'd trade him for Sacha from NYRB in a second.
- Nobody that I recall hated Mullins. The guy has been fantastic for us in his limited time!
I read several posts on here that questioned why Mullins was coming in the game, and were very, very negative on his impact. I remember it around the Montreal road game.
These guys can play. There is no doubt about that. They are not speedsters but their cunning far outweighs their lack of speed. So, as "old" as they may be, they can still contribute greatly.
We didn't see it last year, and there's another year on the tires this year. And "cunning" really only gets you so far when you aren't surrounded by talent that can complete plays - pinging in great passes only means so much when Villa's the only player that can get on the end of them.
I'm not arguing that they can't help - of course Pirlo and Lampard can play better than they showed this past year. But are they effective uses of designated player spots on the field (rather than just selling tickets)? Absolutely not.
- He didn't need to get a on a mic and scream but he needed to show leadership. I never SAW it in any form. I said the same thing about Iraola. Is he a leader? Yes. His career proves that. Was he the right kind of leader here? Nope. Thus, he was quickly shuttled to the bench.
It's not Kreis' job to show leadership to the fans. It's his job to show leadership to the players. And other than a few vague quotes that have either been fabricated (the one from the comedian and the "I'd rather lose under another manager than win under Kreis" that was actually a Chelsea joke) or taken out of context, I don't know that I have any window into that. I really don't give a shit about a manager's facial expressions on the sidelines. I may be alone in this, but that doesn't matter to me.
- "At one stage in his career." Interesting, different rule set for Pirlo and Lampard. Let's chalk this one up to misspeaking. Wingert was the type of player that you built a team up WITH, not around. Around implies that the subject is the center piece.
It's a different rule set because we're talking about two completely different things. Kreis was making a roster construction philosophy statement about how you win in MLS. And under those standards, he was 100% correct - guys of Wingert's type are how you succeed in MLS, and not the Thierry Henry signings.
You can't build around Pirlo and Lampard because they'll only be here for one or two more years. By the time you brought in shuttlers to complement Pirlo, he'd be retired. Because of the roster acquisition methodology in MLS, you can't turn over a roster to fit a new philosophy the way you can overseas. That's why a measured approach that's painstakingly consistent with a guiding philosophy is critical. That's what Kreis had at RSL, and that's what he's not been given the opportunity to do here.
- They're world class. Period. They didn't just dominate on arrival but that's a good thing. The league is competitive and coaches know how to adjust tactics. Saying Pirlo is not world class and he just played a CL Final is absurd. Same for Lampard. He is a world class player. Still.
They were world class. The Frank Lampard we saw last year is a guy you bring off the bench for a late winner. Pirlo is world class in the right system, and you can't build the kind of team that Pirlo works with in MLS -- not in one year.
The next coach will have certainly have his hands full but he will also have a much greater frame of reference.
I totally lack faith that CFG is going about this the right way, and think some here are blinded by a misguided distrust of a manager they didn't connect with. I can't fault Kreis for pushing back on a CFG administration that I myself considered full of shit all year.
Edit: That being said, Rox - appreciate the response.
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Eric Wynalda is a class idiot, and I have that on authority from people who would know.
That article was clearly written by a child. I'm surprised HRB allowed it to be posted.
You can still do well or poorly within the context. Repeating the context over and over again is an excuse. Stating the successes Kreis may or may not have had within the context would be a persuasive argument, but nobody is doing that.
If my argument is that Kreis was never really given the chance to succeed (and that's not a unique argument - it's one many are making right now), then quoting his successes isn't really a part of my argument.
You rejecting my argument because it isn't convincing for you is fine. I get it. But it doesn't invalidate the argument.
There are TWELVE playoff spots. Theres no reason a expansion club with the talent and resources available to NYCFC shouldnt have made the big dance.
Its not acceptable.
Fill in the blanks:
Despite the fact that ____________, Kreis was still able to ____________, and that's why I think he deserves another year.
This is all I'm hearing:
Despite the fact that CFG meddled with the roster too much and we were only an expansion team, Kreis was still able to win an MLS Cup with Real Salt Lake in 2009, and that's why I think he deserves another year.
Am I missing a better argument?
Some great arguments in there. Just want to touch on one thing:
You're absolutely right that the players need to see a great leader. I've yet to see anyone respond in play or say in words that he is. Much of what we've witnessed on the positive this season seemed to have been in spite of Kreis.
You're absolutely right that the players need to see a great leader. I've yet to see anyone respond in play or say in words that he is. Much of what we've witnessed on the positive this season seemed to have been in spite of Kreis.
I haven't posted in ages, but I did want to just say I think removing Kreis is the right idea long term. He showed very little passion for the club, nor future planning with his refusal to play the younger players and start to build something. He repeatedly fell back on his old RSL players, no matter how many times they were found wanting.
Frankly, and I'm sure many people are in agreement, I'm more excited that a new manager with fresh ideas is coming than I am scared that Kreis has gone. Hopefully one with a track record with younger players, Poku, Mullins, Mix etc have potential to really grow and that is something that looked unlikely under Kreis.
Frankly, and I'm sure many people are in agreement, I'm more excited that a new manager with fresh ideas is coming than I am scared that Kreis has gone. Hopefully one with a track record with younger players, Poku, Mullins, Mix etc have potential to really grow and that is something that looked unlikely under Kreis.
I think that you are going to keep up your impressive message-to-likes rate with this one.
