Kreis Officially Out At NYCFC

and then fire him when he plays Pirlo (and Lampard) to the utter detriment of his team.


Except that's not why they fired him?


I like this move. While it's obviously not all his fault why they missed the playoffs, he continually played bad players while letting good ones rot on the bench.

He didn't put his team in the best position to win.


AMF!
 
- Neds stat box is misleading. Just look at this. You might see 86% passing completion and think that's "effective" football. It's not when you scroll down and see style of play as layoffs and short passes. One key thing they left out... BACKWARDS. Even looking at overall ratings over the season, Ned is at 22... down with a group that was either injured or just didn't get much playing time. For 1884 minutes, he has managed 2 goals in a lightning strike game and 1 assist. Poku has 4 goals 6 assists and an 81% PSR in 983 minutes...

I'm not sure that I argued that Poku got enough minutes. If you extrapolate his performance in small minutes to games where he plays the full 90 (and to be clear, I'm not sure you really can - he can't play as physically if he's having to save some gas for all 90), he's certainly starting quality, and given that Kreis was given full control over his lineups (not sure he was w/r/t Lampard and Pirlo), Poku probably should have received more minutes. But people have been complaining all year even when Grabavoy comes off the bench - Grabavoy's far and away better than any of the other options we have coming off the bench.

- True on Mix but he is young and capable. That will be a great measure of what this next coach is made of; if he can direct Mix into the player that he is supposed to be.

Mix is a decent cog in an already good team, but is not a guy you can depend on as a true gamechanger. He has fantastic ball skills but lacks the vision or creativity to make plays happen on a consistent basis. I can't blame a coach for trying to find a place where he can contribute. He does some nice things, but isn't worth the money we pay him - I'd trade him for Sacha from NJRB in a second.

- Nobody that I recall hated Mullins. The guy has been fantastic for us in his limited time!

I read several posts on here that questioned why Mullins was coming in the game, and were very, very negative on his impact. I remember it around the Montreal road game.

These guys can play. There is no doubt about that. They are not speedsters but their cunning far outweighs their lack of speed. So, as "old" as they may be, they can still contribute greatly.

We didn't see it last year, and there's another year on the tires this year. And "cunning" really only gets you so far when you aren't surrounded by talent that can complete plays - pinging in great passes only means so much when Villa's the only player that can get on the end of them.

I'm not arguing that they can't help - of course Pirlo and Lampard can play better than they showed this past year. But are they effective uses of designated player spots on the field (rather than just selling tickets)? Absolutely not.


- He didn't need to get a on a mic and scream but he needed to show leadership. I never SAW it in any form. I said the same thing about Iraola. Is he a leader? Yes. His career proves that. Was he the right kind of leader here? Nope. Thus, he was quickly shuttled to the bench.

It's not Kreis' job to show leadership to the fans. It's his job to show leadership to the players. And other than a few vague quotes that have either been fabricated (the one from the comedian and the "I'd rather lose under another manager than win under Kreis" that was actually a Chelsea joke) or taken out of context, I don't know that I have any window into that. I really don't give a shit about a manager's facial expressions on the sidelines. I may be alone in this, but that doesn't matter to me.

- "At one stage in his career." Interesting, different rule set for Pirlo and Lampard. Let's chalk this one up to misspeaking. Wingert was the type of player that you built a team up WITH, not around. Around implies that the subject is the center piece.

It's a different rule set because we're talking about two completely different things. Kreis was making a roster construction philosophy statement about how you win in MLS. And under those standards, he was 100% correct - guys of Wingert's type are how you succeed in MLS, and not the Thierry Henry signings.

You can't build around Pirlo and Lampard because they'll only be here for one or two more years. By the time you brought in shuttlers to complement Pirlo, he'd be retired. Because of the roster acquisition methodology in MLS, you can't turn over a roster to fit a new philosophy the way you can overseas. That's why a measured approach that's painstakingly consistent with a guiding philosophy is critical. That's what Kreis had at RSL, and that's what he's not been given the opportunity to do here.


- They're world class. Period. They didn't just dominate on arrival but that's a good thing. The league is competitive and coaches know how to adjust tactics. Saying Pirlo is not world class and he just played a CL Final is absurd. Same for Lampard. He is a world class player. Still.

They were world class. The Frank Lampard we saw last year is a guy you bring off the bench for a late winner. Pirlo is world class in the right system, and you can't build the kind of team that Pirlo works with in MLS -- not in one year.

The next coach will have certainly have his hands full but he will also have a much greater frame of reference.

I totally lack faith that CFG is going about this the right way, and think some here are blinded by a misguided distrust of a manager they didn't connect with. I can't fault Kreis for pushing back on a CFG administration that I myself considered full of shit all year.

Edit: That being said, Rox - appreciate the response.
You are choosing to say that Mix, Mullins, Poku, Lampard, Pirlo are not good enough, but Kreis is.

Many others are saying that those guys have been good elsewhere, so maybe Occam's Razor applies here and its the coach not ALL his players, who happened to be good elsewhere, and one of them just playing in a CL final.
 
Fill in the blanks:

Despite the fact that ____________, Kreis was still able to ____________, and that's why I think he deserves another year.

This is all I'm hearing:

Despite the fact that CFG meddled with the roster too much and we were only an expansion team, Kreis was still able to win an MLS Cup with Real Salt Lake in 2009, and that's why I think he deserves another year.

Am I missing a better argument?
If you're insistent on going down this line of argument, I question why results need to be at the heart of the discussion. Before the year even started, on these very boards, I think I made it abundantly clear that, in my view, playoffs shouldn't be part of the expectation. Considering the uphill battle he faced with the roster, some injury issues, and being an expansion team, expecting to even sneak in the playoffs was entirely unreasonable. And it was - very few managers could have turned this into a team that could compete, even with the name recognition they had.

While I await the "Kreis is no good-ers" to roundly dismiss every part of my argument, I'd argue that the progress that McNamara, Mullins, Poku, Angelino, and Facey showed this year is, in no small part, due to Kreis putting them in the right positions to succeed. They're very limited players at this stage, but Kreis put them in spots where they could contribute.

I also think he showed a good blueprint for Villa to continue to excel in NYC - while I know many questioned the use of Villa as a lone striker, the guy bagged quite a few goals this year, and was a real threat, even without a striking partner. Kreis turned RJ Allen into a decent threat on the break, and that guy had been out of the sport for a while. Jacobsen had his best season in years.

Again, none of this is really a part of the argument. MLS is a slow-build league, and Kreis is a slow-build manager. The expectations weren't in line with reality, and you've even got Manning in Toronto saying today in his press conference that Kreis wasn't given the opportunity to build a team the way he wanted to. He's been handed a terrible hand of cards and was asked to bluff his way to stealing the pot.
 
:

Despite the fact that Kreis had limited resources at his disposal and an ownership group who frequently put other interests above putting NYCFC in the best position to win games, Kreis was still able to put together some impressive wins, including wins over playoff teams from both conferences, showing an ability to get the most out of a severely limited talent pool, and that's why I think he deserves another year.

The only way the Kreis firing makes sense is if you think that this roster left thirteen points on the table. That we should have won four more games and tied one more on a net basis. Frankly, with our CB situation for much of the year, I don't see it.
 
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If you're insistent on going down this line of argument, I question why results need to be at the heart of the discussion. Before the year even started, on these very boards, I think I made it abundantly clear that, in my view, playoffs shouldn't be part of the expectation. Considering the uphill battle he faced with the roster, some injury issues, and being an expansion team, expecting to even sneak in the playoffs was entirely unreasonable. And it was - very few managers could have turned this into a team that could compete, even with the name recognition they had.

While I await the "Kreis is no good-ers" to roundly dismiss every part of my argument, I'd argue that the progress that McNamara, Mullins, Poku, Angelino, and Facey showed this year is, in no small part, due to Kreis putting them in the right positions to succeed. They're very limited players at this stage, but Kreis put them in spots where they could contribute.

I also think he showed a good blueprint for Villa to continue to excel in NYC - while I know many questioned the use of Villa as a lone striker, the guy bagged quite a few goals this year, and was a real threat, even without a striking partner. Kreis turned RJ Allen into a decent threat on the break, and that guy had been out of the sport for a while. Jacobsen had his best season in years.

Again, none of this is really a part of the argument. MLS is a slow-build league, and Kreis is a slow-build manager. The expectations weren't in line with reality, and you've even got Manning in Toronto saying today in his press conference that Kreis wasn't given the opportunity to build a team the way he wanted to. He's been handed a terrible hand of cards and was asked to bluff his way to stealing the pot.

For point of clarification, I also disagree with CFG that missing the playoffs should result in the firing of the manager. I agree with you that it was not a reasonable expectation.

That said, "results" can mean a lot of things. If the list of "results" that Kreis got includes Jacobson having a better than average year, a guy that many are clamoring to be replaced and should not be part of our core moving forward, I think that says a lot about how few "results" he actually earned. And no, Poku doesn't count. He refused to start him consistently all year long and tried to trade him midseason.

"Results" I would have accepted had he earned them:
  1. Poku has been established as a core player and one of the best attacking midfielders in MLS. Kreis actually held him back.
  2. The team got better as the year went on. We actually finished on a low note, despite briefly hitting a stride with our DP's settling in.
  3. Settling on sound tactics for our roster's core to supplement this offseason. We are no closer to having a team identity than we were a year ago.
  4. Any feeling of optimism from the players. Any. At all. Just a little bit. I see none.
  5. Etc.
 
It doesn't matter at all who made the decision. IF it is true that the expectation was to make playoffs and he agreed to that stipulation and it clearly wasn't met then it doesn't matter who fired him.
Honestly with how fired up the chats get during games and even before when lineups come out in surprised we have as many as we do on #TeamKreis
 
The last time club soccer in the United States operated the way "soccer does," it went out of business.

Point of Information: SIX
Yes I know its 6 teams per conference.

But my point was that in a league of 20 teams, when 12 teams make the playoffs, theres no reason a club like NYCFC couldnt be in that 60% of teams running for the MLS cup.

I mean, we all saw how bad Kreis managed our Cosmos US Open match right? We saw him constantly leave Poku on the bench. And then he had the gall to shop him for a trade? How the hell could you think about trading a promising young player like Poku whos also a fan favorite.

Im glad Kreis is gone. Let him go back to a small market in Utah. He's not big market material.
 
My point was that in a league of 20 teams, when 12 teams make the playoffs, theres no reason a club like NYCFC couldnt be in that 60% of teams running for the MLS cup.

Of course there's a reason: our players aren't as good. Yes, I guess there's no ethical or moral reason we shouldn't make the playoffs, but in order to be in the top six of the division, to need to earn enough points. To earn enough points, your players need to play well. For your players to play well, it helps if they're good to begin with. Kreis had a tough row to hoe - doesn't make sense to deny that reality.
 
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Of course there's a reason: our players aren't as good. Yes, I guess there's no ethical or moral reason we shouldn't make the playoffs, but in order to be in the top six of the division, to need to earn enough points. To earn enough points, your players need to play well. For your players to play well, it helps if they're good to begin with. Kreis had a tough row to hoe - doesn't make sense to deny that reality.
Its not just the players though. Kreis is a poor tactician and motivator, and lost the locker room when he threw his players under the bus in the media. If Kreis was a Mourinho or a Ferguson, then maybe he could bash his players in public and it motivate them to do better.

But no, he's Jason fucking Kreis...and when the teams as bad as it is...bashing the players in public doesnt help.

Good riddance.
 
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Eric Wynalda is a class idiot, and I have that on authority from people who would know.


That article was clearly written by a child. I'm surprised HRB allowed it to be posted.

that Soccer America article, btw, is poorly written. lots of emotion/opinion/conclusion and generalization without any specific evidence or anecdote to support his conclusions.
 
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