Man City Loanees?

[thesauerchise]

Listen, dude. This isn't a case of being tough to please. I hate the Man City connection, and would rather it go away than anything.

But since it's here, it's shocking to me that we haven't taken every possible advantage of that connection.

It's just a recognition that the club hasn't used every vehicle available to it to build a serious, contending team. It's a statement of fact. We're down two DPs until July, and have only taken on one of four youth players we're able to take. We haven't spent a dime on transfer fees yet.

So... uh... what's it good for?

Edit: I like your work with Blue City pod, but you're making far, far too simplistic of an argument here.

I was more commenting on the wild tone shifts from all the posts, not yours in particular. It's a double edged sword for sure but I also think the general fan base is caught in two mind sets, thus leading to these types of no win discussions.

My take: it's easy to sit back and say "why aren't we taking advantage of the MC connection more?" My problem with that assumes that our personnel people want that. We are not in the room, nor do we have the internal scouting on these players. I do not know why we haven't and neither does anyone else. Perhaps CFG said no. Perhaps Kreis didn't want to do that. Perhaps some weird Byzantine MLS rule is in place that no one can discuss. Remember we took on Facey on loan, bought Johansen and added Martinez to Wilmington. That is 3 players right there with MC youth roots. I'm not sure what we expected but I was not counting on the top prospects coming over for a few months. That does not benefit our team, as the time needed to acclimate to USA/MLS can be extensive, or there club because Kreis might not even use those players. Different countries, different leagues ='different expectations. How many times does an EPL team sign a player from another league and they talk about transition time? Imagine moving to a whole other continent as well. There is a lot more to this than just the ownership group.

Also, the ownership group part is overrated. Every owner says things at first, but the realities of running hot team change those plans. This is not unique to CFG. Fuck I'm a Yankees fan. Steinbrenner made lots of statements he never stuck too. If this wasn't CFG we would be complaining about other owners.

Thank you for the kind words, I do appreciate it.

 

[Falastur]

I was more commenting on the wild tone shifts from all the posts, not yours in particular. It's a double edged sword for sure but I also think the general fan base is caught in two mind sets, thus leading to these types of no win discussions.

My take: it's easy to sit back and say "why aren't we taking advantage of the MC connection more?" My problem with that assumes that our personnel people want that. We are not in the room, nor do we have the internal scouting on these players. I do not know why we haven't and neither does anyone else. Perhaps CFG said no. Perhaps Kreis didn't want to do that. Perhaps some weird Byzantine MLS rule is in place that no one can discuss. Remember we took on Facey on loan, bought Johansen and added Martinez to Wilmington. That is 3 players right there with MC youth roots. I'm not sure what we expected but I was not counting on the top prospects coming over for a few months. That does not benefit our team, as the time needed to acclimate to USA/MLS can be extensive, or there club because Kreis might not even use those players. Different countries, different leagues ='different expectations. How many times does an EPL team sign a player from another league and they talk about transition time? Imagine moving to a whole other continent as well. There is a lot more to this than just the ownership group.

Also, the ownership group part is overrated. Every owner says things at first, but the realities of running hot team change those plans. This is not unique to CFG. Fuck I'm a Yankees fan. Steinbrenner made lots of statements he never stuck too. If this wasn't CFG we would be complaining about other owners.

Thank you for the kind words, I do appreciate it.

I also tend towards the pragmatic approach. It's still very early days yet and we haven't had long enough to seriously appraise how CFG will handle the loanee opportunities. If they consistently fail to show any intention to use them and it becomes obvious that it's nothing more than a lack of interest in exploring the possibility, then I'll get upset. Until then, it's too early to say whether they are refusing to or simply aren't in the right position.

I will point out that Martinez has no CFG links, though. He has links to Villa, but not to CFG.

 

[thesauerchise]

I also tend towards the pragmatic approach. It's still very early days yet and we haven't had long enough to seriously appraise how CFG will handle the loanee opportunities. If they consistently fail to show any intention to use them and it becomes obvious that it's nothing more than a lack of interest in exploring the possibility, then I'll get upset. Until then, it's too early to say whether they are refusing to or simply aren't in the right position.

I will point out that Martinez has no CFG links, though. He has links to Villa, but not to CFG.

Yeah, I remembered that after on Martinez, my brain is still jet lagged.

I just think it's too easy to blame CFG, convenient almost. It is certainly possible Kreis/Reyna didn't feel anybody could make an impact during a short term loan, thus helping no one. Heck, Facey has started once and played twice, it's now May. When building a team you need to plan for worst case scenario and if you feel the worst case for loanees is they cannot adapt and don't see the field in that period of time then it does no good to bring them over just to say you did.

 

[Falastur]

Well, Facey got sent off, banned for three matches and then had to return to Manchester for family reasons, so I think there are mitigating circumstances there.

 

[kas_tippler]

Listen, dude. This isn't a case of being tough to please. I hate the Man City connection, and would rather it go away than anything.

But since it's here, it's shocking to me that we haven't taken every possible advantage of that connection.

It's just a recognition that the club hasn't used every vehicle available to it to build a serious, contending team. It's a statement of fact. We're down two DPs until July, and have only taken on one of four youth players we're able to take. We haven't spent a dime on transfer fees yet.

So... uh... what's it good for?

Edit: I like your work with Blue City pod, but you're making far, far too simplistic of an argument here.

Too much hate in the world, think about the positives.

 

[Kjbert]

I don't think you can say the CFG connection hasn't accomplished anything for us. We can thank them for Calle. No way Villa joins without them. The connection with the Yankees doesn't happen without them.

 

[The Toe]

I don't think you can say the CFG connection hasn't accomplished anything for us. We can thank them for Calle. No way Villa joins without them. The connection with the Yankees doesn't happen without them.

This is 100% true. You have the capital of the #3 most valuable sports franchise in the world (Yankees), and the #5 most valuable soccer team in the world (MCFC), being two groups who spend some of the most money in sports.... incredibly important to signing players and building the team.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

This is 100% true. You have the capital of the #3 most valuable sports franchise in the world (Yankees), and the #5 most valuable soccer team in the world (MCFC), being two groups who spend some of the most money in sports.... incredibly important to signing players and building the team.

Since George died, the Yankees have been spending like a small market team.

 

[MagnusPax]

I don't think you can say the CFG connection hasn't accomplished anything for us. We can thank them for Calle. No way Villa joins without them. The connection with the Yankees doesn't happen without them.

100%? No so sure. Maybe Yankees contacted MLS and then they hooked them up with CFG. Sure it's nice to have big money involved, but to be honest, I'm not so sure most of this couldn't happen without them. Too black and white for me. I think Villa goes where there is a good situation. Kreis was going to whomever gave him a brand new plate etc.

But I like what Facey can do, I like to think that other ManCity loanees can do more.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Yeah, I mean, its not like the Red Bulls could sign a player like Thierry Henry or little Orlando City could sign a Ballon d'Or winner like Kaka without resources like CFG....

All hail CFG! The organization that has taken MLS by storm.

 

[gbservis]

My opinion on the matter is 1)NYCFC and Kreis are still trying to formulate a starting 11, it's hard to do w/ loanees. 2) probably the ones Kreis wants aren't being made available.

Very good points, I would also add.

3) Kries seems to prefer starting MLS vets, and as others have pointed out MCFC would expect loanees to get time. (Not a critique, just an observation)
4) Not a single MCFC youth player has previously played for RSL so Kries doesn't want any of them.

 

[Kjbert]

Since George died, the Yankees have been spending like a small market team.

Disagree - look at the deals given to Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Very good points, I would also add.

3) Kries seems to prefer starting MLS vets, and as others have pointed out MCFC would expect loanees to get time. (Not a critique, just an observation)
4) Not a single MCFC youth player has previously played for RSL so Kries doesn't want any of them.

I contend him leaning on Vets and RSL players was an attempt to know what he had more quickly and to have a team that could learn to play together more quickly.

If you were starting a brand new team, wouldn't you want players you already knew and players with a lot of experience?

It hasn't worked out so far but I don't think it was a bad idea.

 

[AndreT_NY]

After that goal today I wouldn't mind seeing George Evans over here. I mean we aren't as good as Scunthorpe right now but a guy can dream.

 

[gbservis]

I contend him leaning on Vets and RSL players was an attempt to know what he had more quickly and to have a team that could learn to play together more quickly.

If you were starting a brand new team, wouldn't you want players you already knew and players with a lot of experience?

It hasn't worked out so far but I don't think it was a bad idea.

Point 4 was mostly a joke. I don't think it was a bad plan either, he went system+known over possible potential but unknown. It makes sense. In hindsight I do wonder if we passed over slightly more talented players in the expansion draft and free agency in favor of rsl guys who knew the system.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Point 4 was mostly a joke. I don't think it was a bad plan either, he went system+known over possible potential but unknown. It makes sense. In hindsight I do wonder if we passed over slightly more talented players in the expansion draft and free agency in favor of rsl guys who knew the system.

Perhaps.

I don't know, I mean RSL was a really good team while Kreis and these RSL guys were there. So these guys can do it as to why they haven't. Well, if Kreis could tell you that, we wouldn't be losing so much.

It all reminds me of DC United two years ago or Fernando Torres at Chelsea. Both were capable of being GREAT but for want of...something....they just would not or could not perform right.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Perhaps.

I don't know, I mean RSL was a really good team while Kreis and these RSL guys were there. So these guys can do it as to why they haven't. Well, if Kreis could tell you that, we wouldn't be losing so much.

It all reminds me of DC United two years ago or Fernando Torres at Chelsea. Both were capable of being GREAT but for want of...something....they just would not or could not perform right.

Were they, though? Or did they have one superglue guy who, shockingly to all of us, as we saw at the WC last year, was capable of being an above competetent DM at the absolute highest levels of the game. Then mix in a few lucky catches on player acquisition and breaks, and you bounce into a cup final.

RSL was never really the best team. They were great &/or fortunate with acquisitions, and lucky as hell a lot in the playoffs.

We don't have a Plata or a Saborio, and we don't have a Kyle Beckerman, Morales. Most importantly, we don't have a Garth Lagerway. We have some company men who either don't have the intelligence to compete against people like Garth or whose balls are held too tightly in the CFG grip (yes, looking at you, Reyna, #RememberGhana).

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Were they, though? Or did they have one superglue guy who, shockingly to all of us, as we saw at the WC last year, was capable of being an above competetent DM at the absolute highest levels of the game. Then mix in a few lucky catches on player acquisition and breaks, and you bounce into a cup final.

RSL was never really the best team. They were great &/or fortunate with acquisitions, and lucky as hell a lot in the playoffs.

We don't have a Plata or a Saborio, and we don't have a Kyle Beckerman, Morales. Most importantly, we don't have a Garth Lagerway. We have some company men who either don't have the intelligence to compete against people like Garth or whose balls are held too tightly in the CFG grip (yes, looking at you, Reyna, #RememberGhana).

We have a Villa and Mix and Lampard (in theory)

Let's give it time (and Lampard).