Mls CBA 2015 Thread

[Kjbert]

@MagnusPax Some of the newer owners to the league want more DPs. But for every LA Galaxy, there is a Colorado Rapids. For every Seattle Sounders, there is a Columbus Crew.

Rapidly raising the Salary Cap or number of DPs would render some squads useless.

 

[MagnusPax]

@MagnusPax Some of the newer owners to the league want more DPs. But for every LA Galaxy, there is a Colorado Rapids. For every Seattle Sounders, there is a Columbus Crew.

Rapidly raising the Salary Cap or number of DPs would render some squads useless.

Agreed. I believe I have posted similar comments on this forum previously. I would also add that most newer owners are pushing for more spending. So eventually the old guard that doesn't want change maybe outvoted.

My opinion is the roster will shrink (from say 23-30 being exempt from the cap to 20-28 being exempt), the minimum will rise, the cap will rise from ~$4 million to closer to 5 and some new type of DP, maybe a North American one or age one will be added.

Thats my opinion.

 

[Kjbert]

I like your ideas.

Tell me what you think, but from where I sit as a fan, these are my concerns moving forward...

1) Champions League Competition - Our rosters just aren't deep enough to compete. I like your idea of making more spots exempt

2) Transfer Fees - Right now, they count towards the cap hit. Can they just eliminate it? If NYCFC wants to buy Rubio Rubin for $1 Million, but he's only on $250,000 wages, why should he be a DP?

3) Salary Floor - There are guys making 50k that should be making 100k. Too many Americans who will never get a look abroad because they are American should be making more money.

4) Allocation Money - Buying down contracts is silly. Why not just raise the cap number above 380k? Come up with a number that is much higher. Let's say the new Cap is $5 Million, but DPs count for $1 Million. Levels more of the playing field in my eyes. Sure you can give Matt Besler and Graham Zusi 650k a year, but then there isn't a ton of room to sign 3 DPs.

 

[franchise646]

I like your ideas.

Tell me what you think, but from where I sit as a fan, these are my concerns moving forward...

1) Champions League Competition - Our rosters just aren't deep enough to compete. I like your idea of making more spots exempt

2) Transfer Fees - Right now, they count towards the cap hit. Can they just eliminate it? If NYCFC wants to buy Rubio Rubin for $1 Million, but he's only on $250,000 wages, why should he be a DP?

3) Salary Floor - There are guys making 50k that should be making 100k. Too many Americans who will never get a look abroad because they are American should be making more money.

4) Allocation Money - Buying down contracts is silly. Why not just raise the cap number above 380k? Come up with a number that is much higher. Let's say the new Cap is $5 Million, but DPs count for $1 Million. Levels more of the playing field in my eyes. Sure you can give Matt Besler and Graham Zusi 650k a year, but then there isn't a ton of room to sign 3 DPs.

Those are all the things that need be addressed

 

[MagnusPax]

I like your ideas.

Tell me what you think, but from where I sit as a fan, these are my concerns moving forward...

1) Champions League Competition - Our rosters just aren't deep enough to compete. I like your idea of making more spots exempt

2) Transfer Fees - Right now, they count towards the cap hit. Can they just eliminate it? If NYCFC wants to buy Rubio Rubin for $1 Million, but he's only on $250,000 wages, why should he be a DP?

3) Salary Floor - There are guys making 50k that should be making 100k. Too many Americans who will never get a look abroad because they are American should be making more money.

4) Allocation Money - Buying down contracts is silly. Why not just raise the cap number above 380k? Come up with a number that is much higher. Let's say the new Cap is $5 Million, but DPs count for $1 Million. Levels more of the playing field in my eyes. Sure you can give Matt Besler and Graham Zusi 650k a year, but then there isn't a ton of room to sign 3 DPs.

Hard to address some of these without raising the cap significantly. Mexican teams are our nemsis in the CCL. Their average player gets paid double what our average player makes. By that logic the cap should double. That ain't happening.

I like the idea of transfer fees being exempt but it seems like a big sore spot to MLS's complete control of costs. Teams that want to spend would run rumshod over those that don't. Regardless of what we think, MLS doesn't want that. And lets be realistic, NYCFC has yet to prove they are actually spenders so far.

Allocation Money has its place in MLS. Its like the mortar for how the rules work. I can't see MLS removing it.

I know I'm a joykill. I just trying to think realistically here.

 

[Kjbert]

I'm struggling to see how the elimination of the transfer fee rule would allow teams to run roughshod over others?

If I want to go spend $1 Million to bring over 10 US U-21s who will all make 250k, then I have 10 spots taking up 2/3 of my budget. I still need to field a team. That's where the Cap protects the league.

 

[MagnusPax]

I'm struggling to see how the elimination of the transfer fee rule would allow teams to run roughshod over others?

If I want to go spend $1 Million to bring over 10 US U-21s who will all make 250k, then I have 10 spots taking up 2/3 of my budget. I still need to field a team. That's where the Cap protects the league.

Because you will have 10 $1 million transfer fee cost USMNT/U21s making $2.5 million a year (which might cause another problem, only ~$2.5 left for other 10-15 players) and I will have Matthew Dunn and Sebastian Velasquez. It causes even more inequality than already exists.

Another way of looking at it, right now you can only pay 3 players above the amount and maybe you have 2-3 others that could command bigger fees in the future. Your system would cause problems in Year 2 when all the stars want their pay day. Imagine a team full of potential USMNT a year into playing in MLS at $250k a year. How long is that sustainable where there is a cap and free agency doesn't exist?

This isn't my hope, dream or desire. Its what I think MLS will do with your proposals. I'm probably wrong, right?

 

[Kjbert]

But if those guys succeed...they then want to get paid. Which means they'll leave. So circling back to Mix for instance...he has to be a DP because eventually he's going to get paid decent money

 

[MagnusPax]

But if those guys succeed...they then want to get paid. Which means they'll leave. So circling back to Mix for instance...he has to be a DP because eventually he's going to get paid decent money

Thats the thing, they are still tied to 3 or 4 whatever DP slots. If 6 of the 10 want DP contracts in Year 2 they are screwed. I don't see a player being purchased for $1 million and not being good enough for more than $387,500 in a few years after the transfer (especially if they start at $250k like in your scenario).

 

[franchise646]

Thats the thing, they are still tied to 3 or 4 whatever DP slots. If 6 of the 10 want DP contracts in Year 2 they are screwed. I don't see a player being purchased for $1 million and not being good enough for more than $387,500 in a few years after the transfer (especially if they start at $250k like in your scenario).

Right now the DP threshold is around $800k maybe the rise to threshold $2 million. As for free agency I think the terms of services would 26 years old and /or 5 years in the league or with the team.

 

[MagnusPax]

Right now the DP threshold is around $800k maybe rise threshold $2 million. As for free agency I think the terms of services would 26 years old and /or 5 years in the league or with the team.

DP threshold at $800k? Anything over $387,500 is a DP, with some rare allocation-involved exceptions.

 

[franchise646]

Yeah it's a little less $800K is a DP (one of the latest signings for the Union). But they need to rise the DP Threshold, I DP needs to be a multi-million dollar Market player.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

@MagnusPax, Is the 387k the salary threshold at which a player must be a DP, or could you conceivably have a player making 400k and just have it all count towards the cap? (not using allocation money in this instance)

 

[MagnusPax]

In 98% of the cases, you go over $387,500 and you are a DP. The only odd balls last year were Nigel Reo-Coker and Kyle Beckerman( I think). In their cases I think their clubs used allocation money to buy down their contracts to a smaller amount (less than $387k) to hit the cap.

 

[Kjbert]

There have to be dozens of guys in MLS that are making less then what they would make overseas - but stay here just because. And I'm not talking about the guys making 75k - I'm talking about guys like Besler, Goodson and Evans.

The guys who have done it right went overseas and inflated their salaries - then came back and got raises - Shea and Maurice Edu for example

 

[MagnusPax]

Right and 2 of the guys you mention are DPs. MLS and Philly just spent like $800k on transfer on Edu and he'll be a DP

 

[MagnusPax]

Interesting bit in the same link about Reyna saying only 1 MC loanee coming;

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...sible-return-and-notes-from-the-draft-combine

CBA rumblings: MLS and the MLS Players Union aren't set to resume negotiations for another 10 days or so, but that hasn't stopped the league from floating some trial balloons to teams, in terms of possible new roster classifications. One interesting item multiple sources have mentioned is what's being called the "Super Max Designated Player." The name is something of a misnomer, as it refers to medium-sized DPs whose total maximum outlay (yearly salary plus transfer fee plus anything else) is around $750,000.

With the salary cap presumed to be going up, the idea is to not spend those funds on players already in the league. A $250,00 player isn't all of a sudden going to be worth $350,000, or so the thinking goes. Rather, the intention is to spend those funds on a higher caliber of player coming into the league. There has been talk that such a slot would be in addition to the current Designated Player classification.

Keep in mind, this is all very preliminary. No one I spoke to said this had come up in the CBA negotiations, but enough sources brought the topic up that at minimum, it appears to be something the league is considering.

I don't quite get it and I am sure someone here smarter than me can explain it. Did they just say they were going to raise the cap but not spend more money on players already in the league? Talk about #EPICFAIL in their negotiation skills with the Players Union. As I have said before, the Players Union couldn't give 2 flying figs about the DP slots or more foreign talent. They want free agency and average salaries to rise.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Interesting bit in the same link about Reyna saying only 1 MC loanee coming;

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...sible-return-and-notes-from-the-draft-combine

CBA rumblings: MLS and the MLS Players Union aren't set to resume negotiations for another 10 days or so, but that hasn't stopped the league from floating some trial balloons to teams, in terms of possible new roster classifications. One interesting item multiple sources have mentioned is what's being called the "Super Max Designated Player." The name is something of a misnomer, as it refers to medium-sized DPs whose total maximum outlay (yearly salary plus transfer fee plus anything else) is around $750,000.

With the salary cap presumed to be going up, the idea is to not spend those funds on players already in the league. A $250,00 player isn't all of a sudden going to be worth $350,000, or so the thinking goes. Rather, the intention is to spend those funds on a higher caliber of player coming into the league. There has been talk that such a slot would be in addition to the current Designated Player classification.

Keep in mind, this is all very preliminary. No one I spoke to said this had come up in the CBA negotiations, but enough sources brought the topic up that at minimum, it appears to be something the league is considering.

I don't quite get it and I am sure someone here smarter than me can explain it. Did they just say they were going to raise the cap but not spend more money on players already in the league? Talk about #EPICFAIL in their negotiation skills with the Players Union. As I have said before, the Players Union couldn't give 2 flying figs about the DP slots or more foreign talent. They want free agency and average salaries to rise.

What the players union will have to realize, or does realize, is that players are only as good as their options. Think you're too good to make $50k? You have to prove it. A higher salary cap doesn't make a guy who is worth paying $2k a week suddenly worth $4k. So you go out and find a guy who is worth $4k/week and cut the poor bastard making $2k.

If they don't get the economics of it, they will soon enough. Are there guys who are paid too little? Absolutely. So raise the minimum to a fair professional wage like $100k, scale it based on league experience and then you only end up cutting the guys who aren't worth that money. That raises quality and gets the money into the people's hands who are actually underpaid.

If some of these squad players think their ship is coming in with a higher salary cap, they just don't realize that the market isn't the same. Mediocre pros are a practically limitless resource. Price of goods is based on scarcity. Apparently, there's no scarcity of folks willing to play for peanuts. Fine. They should and, I believe, will be weeded out to the ranks of NASL and USL. Then, the higher salary cap will get better guys into teams, raise the bar of play. And eventually improve soccer across the country because people will realize that their level of play has to be higher in order to justify a true professional salary.

I should explain this better. But I'm tired. Sorry.

 

[MagnusPax]

I get all that. Just because Player A makes $50k now, doesn't mean he is worth $100k tomorrow because the Cap doubled. But what I was saying was raising the cap and making it easier to evade cap restrictions on million-dollar players is pretty much a dead-issue with the Union. They don't care. Wouldn't logic dictate that they will just argue against this? Won't they fight for a raising of the cap and less ways for DP-like players to take advantage of the increase salary cap room? I think they will. Especially when the League sticks a middle finger to the Union over the free agency plan. They are not getting that.

 

[Kjbert]

I think the point of the Super DP slot is to entice more of the fringe USMNT players as an example. Mix will make more than 375k. So would Klejstan and so did Edu.

Right now it doesn't really matter if you pay those guys 400k or 4 Million. It counts all the same.

Look at Zusi and Besler. They are DPs. Bradley Wright Phillips. Those guys are worth more than 387k but they're not Kaka either.

I think this is a great idea and could be a nice tool to enhance the quality of the player pool