MLS Week 29 - 2017
- Thread starter LionNYC
- Start date
We need referees to correctly interpret what they missed by using VAR. Good referees will do that... but bad ones will not. VAR will not make an incompetent referee better. He is going to be bad no matter what.
Personally I'd rather we just sanctioned the incompetent refs, rather than give them three extra minutes of uninterrupted airtime (for no benefit). I know a lot of people disagree with me on this one, but I didn't pay to see an #umpshow
These highlights are worth watching. Some of these goals... let's just say this game isn't an advertisement for the quality of the league.
Plus you get Ian Joy.
Plus you get Ian Joy.
Not for me. I think your interpretation takes too much responsibility away from the defense.
One of the dumbest calls and least deserved reds I've ever seen. Fairly routine yellow card, that.
Here's the thing, if Asad isn't offside because he didn't touch the ball, then any team could camp out a guy at the corner flag so the defense forgets about him, play the ball behind the defense with a through pass and that other player then runs into the box just barely behind the teammates run onto the ball - the defense has forgotten about the guy offside because he wasn't part of the play. Passive offside is bullshit if the player actively becomes part of the play.
I don't see a problem with anything you described. Luis Suarez makes a living standing offside and stepping back on at the perfect time. It's called smart running.
You think every dummy run that doesn't get played should be offside? I hope you never get a seat on IFAB. That would be horrible to watch.
That's not Ian Joy, btw. Pretty sure it's Steven Caldwell. I know only because I asked myself earlier this year why in the hell Ian Joy was on TSN and then researched it.
I don't think you understand my scenario. You also placed words in my mouth - never said all dummy runs are offside, many are fine as long as they aren't contributing to the active play.
Player in an offside position, ball goes past him, he joins attack. Is that about right?
Player A hanging out in corner, ball played behind defense at midfield & picked up by teammate B top of box far side, offside player A moves just behind ball and receives the pass.
If you think that's kosher, then by all means we should leave a passive poacher by the corner touchline and play balls into the opposite corner. I'm fairly confident that we could routinely win the ball in our half with one less player and start this gimmick throughball attack.
That doesn't even work in FIFA. I think you're really over-weighting this hypothetical strategy's value. I don't see it being a magic bullet of any sort.
Magic bullet or not, it's evidently kosher by your standards/interpretation of the rules. That was the discussion, not whether it works in FIFA. Or, if you're implying it's not kosher in FIFA, then the 3rd goal last night shouldn't have counted because my scenario is the same but extrapolated over a greater area of the field.
No, I'm saying it wouldn't be effective in your scenario, real or FIFA. And that ignores how unrealistic it is that teams would voluntarily play with 10 just to hope the defense forgets about a dude, who then has to sneak back unnoticed into some sort of angle to score or serve a cross, after the ball has moved past him, nonetheless.
#PREPOSTEROUS
Again, you've changed the narrative from whether it's legal to whether it's effective.
But because you're waffling on the first, I'll address your second. Evidently you've never played short side soccer that doesn't have offsides. Even in that sort of league, where everybody knows a poacher is possible, offensive players are routinely forgotten about by the defense. To even propose that the scenario is ineffective or unrealistic is just naive ignorance because you're taking a false position that hasn't been tested. I'm saying it's possible per the your interpretation of the rules you said put the responsibility on the defense.
This isn't making any sense to me (and is starting to get a bit testy on both sides). Players run offside all the time, or are positioned offside just because of where they happen to be. But as long as they're not actually involved in the play or attempting to get involved in the play there's nothing against that at all, and once the ball is brought in front of them by some other means they're now onside and can join the play.
Not sure I see where the problem is with either the play as it happened or your hypothetical scenario. You could park yourself in a Barcalounger outside the 18 with a lemonade and a newspaper and as long as the ball gets in front of you before you get involved in the play it's fine.
Only one I was able to find in something approaching sky blue. $350, from China. Has cup holder.
Source: http://www.okyoo.us/flash-furniture...er-with-headrest-and-cup-holder-in-china.html
So then by your interpretation, Asad last night was actively offside because he ran towards the ball to collect it, attempted to get involved by your quote, and didn't initially play it because he was beaten to the ball. the whistle should have been blown the moment he ran towards the ball.This isn't making any sense to me (and is starting to get a bit testy on both sides). Players run offside all the time, or are positioned offside just because of where they happen to be. But as long as they're not actually involved in the play or attempting to get involved in the play there's nothing against that at all, and once the ball is brought in front of them by some other means they're now onside and can join the play.
Not sure I see where the problem is with either the play as it happened or your hypothetical scenario. You could park yourself in a Barcalounger outside the 18 with a lemonade and a newspaper and as long as the ball gets in front of you before you get involved in the play it's fine.
Only one I was able to find in something approaching sky blue. $350, from China. Has cup holder.
Source: http://www.okyoo.us/flash-furniture...er-with-headrest-and-cup-holder-in-china.html
Asad was not offsides.
From the rules:
"A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by
a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
In the play yesterday, Asad was in an offside position when Almiron passed to Villalba. He was not offside when Villalba passed to him because he was behind the ball. So the issue is was Asad in active play when Almiron passed to Villalba, Asad
This is confirmed by this slide from a FIFA Slideshow. It is from 2004 but there is no reason to think it is out of date on this point. If you check the entire PDF the discussion of the offside rule shows they are working off the same text I quoted above from the 2017-18 Rules of the Game.
You can find the full PDF here: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf
This slide is exactly what happened last night. Asad (Attacker C) was in an offside position and not interfering with an opponent when team-mate (A) Almiron passes the ball to player B1 Villalba who was in an onside position. Player B1 Villalba ran to to opponent's goal and passed the ball B2 to Teammate C Asad. C Asad cannot be penalized because when the ball was passed to him, he was in an offside position.
From the rules:
"A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by
a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
•interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
•interfering with an opponent by:
or•interfering with an opponent by:
•preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
•challenging an opponent for the ball or
•clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
•making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
•challenging an opponent for the ball or
•clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
•making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
•gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
•rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent
•been deliberately saved by any opponent."
•been deliberately saved by any opponent."
In the play yesterday, Asad was in an offside position when Almiron passed to Villalba. He was not offside when Villalba passed to him because he was behind the ball. So the issue is was Asad in active play when Almiron passed to Villalba, Asad
- did not interfere with play by playing or touching the ball;
- did not interfere with an opponent by obstructing, or challenging, etc;
This is confirmed by this slide from a FIFA Slideshow. It is from 2004 but there is no reason to think it is out of date on this point. If you check the entire PDF the discussion of the offside rule shows they are working off the same text I quoted above from the 2017-18 Rules of the Game.
You can find the full PDF here: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf
This slide is exactly what happened last night. Asad (Attacker C) was in an offside position and not interfering with an opponent when team-mate (A) Almiron passes the ball to player B1 Villalba who was in an onside position. Player B1 Villalba ran to to opponent's goal and passed the ball B2 to Teammate C Asad. C Asad cannot be penalized because when the ball was passed to him, he was in an offside position.
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Running towards the ball doesn't matter. As long as he didn't touch the ball or interfere with an opponent he's not offside.
Ok. But I'd swear we have been penalized this year by Villa being offside (not walking back in time) even though he didn't touch the ball or play it.
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