Patrick Vieira Appointed As NYCFC Coach

Tom in Fairfield CT said:
Look at our early schedule vs our late schedule. Its not even close. It was better teams, not chemistry that made us lose.
Click to expand...

Our early schedule includes getting 5 points out of 5 matches against the Union and Fire, with draws against the Rapids and Dynamo and a loss to RSL among the non-playoff teams.

The wins we got in our hot streak (June 6-July 26) before Pirlo & the others caused the turnover aren't against total cupcakes. Yes, we beat the Union, but we also beat the playoff-bound Impact twice and playoff bound TFC once. After Pirlo comes in, we would then lose to that same Impact (who still didn't have 100% Drogba yet). So NYCFC got wins against better teams then they were losing to previously.

It's fair to point out that the schedule got harder, with two matches against the Crew, one against RB and one in LA, but it's also fair to point out that NYCFC got plastered in those matches. NYCFC were pretty much run off the field in the month of August. I think that significant a level of dropoff isn't solely explained by the increased difficulty in the schedule, but rather facing that difficult schedule while also trying to figure out basic issues like lineup construction and chemistry.

If anything, the difficulty in schedule is a point in favor of Kreis. In the easier early schedule, he was hampered with no Lampard, an injured Villa, and the basic issues all expansion clubs have. By the time Kreis got the reinforcements, he was facing the best teams in the league while trying to create a cohesive squad.

After that horrid month of August, Kreis then put together a solid four game stretch, with an encouraging display in a loss to FCD outside an atrocious last two minutes of the first half that's all on the players followed up by wins over TFC, a surging San Jose team looking for the last playoff spot, then the win against Vancouver who finished second in the difficult West.

The point here isn't that the results prove Kreis is awesome; it's that the roster turnover makes the results in Season 1 a bad set of data, and more data is required in order to evaluate whether Kreis was the right manager. In that sense, nothing in Season 1 should alter the view we had of him on Day 1, when we were all excited to see him brought on. And there's a reason many MLS teams are being asked about Kreis as their next coach: the smart folks in MLS know that Kreis shouldn't be defined by Season 1 of NYCFC but rather his body of work with RSL.

And to be blunt: CFG didn't fire Kreis b/c he's a bad coach. Their press release was about controlling the narrative in their favor, but there's no reason to realistically demand playoffs in year 1 (look at MLS preseason predictions. It was not unanimous that NYCFC made the playoffs, and those that had us there had us in spot 5 or 6, meaning it was tenuous). They fired Kreis because they needed to hand Vieira a first team coaching gig. That's not a proper way to run a serious club, and fans ought to be outraged.
 
Alot of people in here like to think for other people. Not everyone critical of this decision was in love with JK.

I for one got a sour taste feeling like we're the on deck circle for Manchester with this move.

And that doesn't mean I hate Vieira or that I don't think we'll be good.
 
MikeDatTiger said:
Our early schedule includes getting 5 points out of 5 matches against the Union and Fire, with draws against the Rapids and Dynamo and a loss to RSL among the non-playoff teams.

The wins we got in our hot streak (June 6-July 26) before Pirlo & the others caused the turnover aren't against total cupcakes. Yes, we beat the Union, but we also beat the playoff-bound Impact twice and playoff bound TFC once. After Pirlo comes in, we would then lose to that same Impact (who still didn't have 100% Drogba yet). So NYCFC got wins against better teams then they were losing to previously.

It's fair to point out that the schedule got harder, with two matches against the Crew, one against RB and one in LA, but it's also fair to point out that NYCFC got plastered in those matches. NYCFC were pretty much run off the field in the month of August. I think that significant a level of dropoff isn't solely explained by the increased difficulty in the schedule, but rather facing that difficult schedule while also trying to figure out basic issues like lineup construction and chemistry.

If anything, the difficulty in schedule is a point in favor of Kreis. In the easier early schedule, he was hampered with no Lampard, an injured Villa, and the basic issues all expansion clubs have. By the time Kreis got the reinforcements, he was facing the best teams in the league while trying to create a cohesive squad.

After that horrid month of August, Kreis then put together a solid four game stretch, with an encouraging display in a loss to FCD outside an atrocious last two minutes of the first half that's all on the players followed up by wins over TFC, a surging San Jose team looking for the last playoff spot, then the win against Vancouver who finished second in the difficult West.

The point here isn't that the results prove Kreis is awesome; it's that the roster turnover makes the results in Season 1 a bad set of data, and more data is required in order to evaluate whether Kreis was the right manager. In that sense, nothing in Season 1 should alter the view we had of him on Day 1, when we were all excited to see him brought on. And there's a reason many MLS teams are being asked about Kreis as their next coach: the smart folks in MLS know that Kreis shouldn't be defined by Season 1 of NYCFC but rather his body of work with RSL.

And to be blunt: CFG didn't fire Kreis b/c he's a bad coach. Their press release was about controlling the narrative in their favor, but there's no reason to realistically demand playoffs in year 1 (look at MLS preseason predictions. It was not unanimous that NYCFC made the playoffs, and those that had us there had us in spot 5 or 6, meaning it was tenuous). They fired Kreis because they needed to hand Vieira a first team coaching gig. That's not a proper way to run a serious club, and fans ought to be outraged.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good reasoned view in support of Kreiss and for many of the reasons above I would have been fine with another season even if there were things he did that drove me nuts and there are certainly arguments to the contrary.

And, I agree that one shouldn't put too much stock in the publicly issued quotes about why they did what they did because truth is a secondary goal in pretty much any manufactured quote of that sort.

But, ultimately, I'm not sure how we can conclude that the reason they fired Kreiss is because they needed to hand Viera a job. That's speculation at best. Plus, being outraged isn't much fun :)
 
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ktdNYCFC said:
Anyone know if the MC website for EDS is up to date? Was bored so I wanted to start window-shopping for loanees :p

https://www.mcfc.com/elite-development-squad

I was looking at Emyr Huws, but Wikipedia says he signed with Wigan Athletic and is now on loan at Huddersfield. We need us a shiny new CDM.

View attachment 3586
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's out of date. I thought mcfc.com was just a domain that linked to the .co.uk site, but evidently not, because the UK site is up to date.

Look at this page instead:

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Teams/EDS

Edit: apparently all they did was change the location of the page. http://www.mcfc.com/teams/eds does the trick too.
 
AJS said:
I think this is a good reasoned view in support of Kreiss and for many of the reasons above I would have been fine with another season even if there were things he did that drove me nuts and there are certainly arguments to the contrary.

And, I agree that one shouldn't put too much stock in the publicly issued quotes about why they did what they did because truth is a secondary goal in pretty many any manufactured quote of that sort.

But, ultimately, I'm not sure how we can conclude that the reason they fired Kreiss is because they needed to hand Viera a job. That's speculation at best. Plus, being outraged isn't much fun :)
Click to expand...

Fair rebuke, although I think the reporting of Grant Wahl and Dave Martinez suggested the concern was at CFG about retaining Kreis. I also think that CFG doesn't have a trigger finger (see Pellegrini staying on this year for MCFC) on firing coaches, so their treatment of Kreis is unusual. We also know that Vieira was starting to get job offers based on the rumors, so to me it seems like the most likely explanation of this decision.
 
Falastur said:
Yeah, that's out of date. I thought mcfc.com was just a domain that linked to the .co.uk site, but evidently not, because the UK site is up to date.

Look at this page instead:

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/Teams/EDS

Edit: apparently all they did was change the location of the page. http://www.mcfc.com/teams/eds does the trick too.
Click to expand...
Tell me, what other fan base can go and raid the U21's of one of the top clubs in the world and have realistic options to ponder over?
 
Our early schedule includes getting 5 points out of 5 matches against the Union and Fire, with draws against the Rapids and Dynamo and a loss to RSL among the non-playoff teams.
Click to expand...

And as I have mentioned ad naseum how different would those results have been (amongst others) with a well rested, uninjured, in shape, in sync #8 in the lineup from game one instead of game 26? The man had his legs kicked out from him before the season ever started.
 
Midas Mulligan said:
Come on, man. As others have pointed out, this is the best shortcut available to younger talent under the circumstances. If we become a good proving ground for young CFG talent (and I think you should look at it that way, not as as MC talent) that goes on to do well in better leagues, then it would stand to reason that we will get better loans and acquisitions from other teams. It won't be only English or European clubs, either. It will give us leverage in getting South/Latin American talent, as well. Clubs will see us as a great shop window for the richest league in the world and a destination far more appealing destination from the players' perspective, and that means we get better transfers. That would also mean we are in a position to be more selective and craft good deals with minimal upfront transfer costs in exchange for sell-on fees.

Execute a few of those, and we have a great pipeline.



On big soccer, it was posited that Kreis got his SA contributors via a one-off, informally-arranged showcase put on by a single agent to which Kreis was taken by someone else. He and Garth still got them, but I don't believe he really scouted hidden gems. More like he got one of those lucky bounces whose absence he kept lamenting here.


Let's not forget, more players will have to be added into the league pool in 2017. Having players camped out at the EDS means they don't require protection from that expansion draft. And for the league as a whole, it would behoove MLS to adapt their roster rules in advance of 2017 expansion so that there is enough quality league wide to at least maintain the standard of play. To me, that's a net plus for us. The league will continually evolve to spend more on players, not less. Advantage: NYC and CFG.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand, but my thought is that pipeline will be there and just when whatever player it is starts to excel, they'll be brought back to whatever "big boy" club sent them. I don't understand how we build a club on that principle. I think we would have been a CFG proving ground regardless of who coached/managed here. So we basically need someone that can handle big name DPs, youngsters coming in and out every year and interchangeable role players. I don't nor does anyone else have an idea as to whether or not he can perform in that setting. It's only a hunch or feeling as to anyone thinking he can. I sure the hell hope I'm wrong and it works out...but I'm just not as optimistic as the rest of you. Maybe it's the stink of the season still clouding my thoughts...I don't know. I'm ok with it, just not going gaga like many others are.
 
S1ARK5 said:
Tell me, what other fan base can go and raid the U21's of one of the top clubs in the world and have realistic options to ponder over?
Click to expand...

Haha exactly, it's pretty awesome. They signed the EDS coach, so I feel totally comfortable snooping around.
 
MikeDatTiger said:
Our early schedule includes getting 5 points out of 5 matches against the Union and Fire, with draws against the Rapids and Dynamo and a loss to RSL among the non-playoff teams.

The wins we got in our hot streak (June 6-July 26) before Pirlo & the others caused the turnover aren't against total cupcakes. Yes, we beat the Union, but we also beat the playoff-bound Impact twice and playoff bound TFC once. After Pirlo comes in, we would then lose to that same Impact (who still didn't have 100% Drogba yet). So NYCFC got wins against better teams then they were losing to previously.

It's fair to point out that the schedule got harder, with two matches against the Crew, one against RB and one in LA, but it's also fair to point out that NYCFC got plastered in those matches. NYCFC were pretty much run off the field in the month of August. I think that significant a level of dropoff isn't solely explained by the increased difficulty in the schedule, but rather facing that difficult schedule while also trying to figure out basic issues like lineup construction and chemistry.

If anything, the difficulty in schedule is a point in favor of Kreis. In the easier early schedule, he was hampered with no Lampard, an injured Villa, and the basic issues all expansion clubs have. By the time Kreis got the reinforcements, he was facing the best teams in the league while trying to create a cohesive squad.

After that horrid month of August, Kreis then put together a solid four game stretch, with an encouraging display in a loss to FCD outside an atrocious last two minutes of the first half that's all on the players followed up by wins over TFC, a surging San Jose team looking for the last playoff spot, then the win against Vancouver who finished second in the difficult West.

The point here isn't that the results prove Kreis is awesome; it's that the roster turnover makes the results in Season 1 a bad set of data, and more data is required in order to evaluate whether Kreis was the right manager. In that sense, nothing in Season 1 should alter the view we had of him on Day 1, when we were all excited to see him brought on. And there's a reason many MLS teams are being asked about Kreis as their next coach: the smart folks in MLS know that Kreis shouldn't be defined by Season 1 of NYCFC but rather his body of work with RSL.

And to be blunt: CFG didn't fire Kreis b/c he's a bad coach. Their press release was about controlling the narrative in their favor, but there's no reason to realistically demand playoffs in year 1 (look at MLS preseason predictions. It was not unanimous that NYCFC made the playoffs, and those that had us there had us in spot 5 or 6, meaning it was tenuous). They fired Kreis because they needed to hand Vieira a first team coaching gig. That's not a proper way to run a serious club, and fans ought to be outraged.
Click to expand...
Solid post, but I would say that there still are parts that should alter the view we had on Kreis from Day 1.

I do agree that some of the limitations of this season meant he needed more time with the team (and if you look at recent posts of mine, you'll see I thought he should have at least another year). However, there are a couple of items where the view on him can change:

1) This is the most important one. How do his players play for him? It appeared as though he lost the locker room. If so, he has to go.
2) Tactical decisions and lineup choices. Anyone that visited this board during the season knows quite a bit of the gripes made on this (me included). I know he had limited choices as to who could play and where (logjam at CM), but there were consistently decisions that were made that were mind-blowing.
 
Jock said:
Jason Denayer would be great for us - had a decent season at Celtic. Plummer and Ntcham were decent, going by the reliable source that is Football Manager.
Click to expand...
I was really hoping he would come over to NYC after the Celtic loan. Solid on the ball, big strong back with vision
 
Maybe PV can do some damage control with Poku, since JK wouldn't play the guy. Wynalda was saying on his show last night that there is big interest in him with some German team(s)...not sure how true, but that would suck.
 
SoupInNYC said:
Solid post, but I would say that there still are parts that should alter the view we had on Kreis from Day 1.

I do agree that some of the limitations of this season meant he needed more time with the team (and if you look at recent posts of mine, you'll see I thought he should have at least another year). However, there are a couple of items where the view on him can change:

1) This is the most important one. How do his players play for him? It appeared as though he lost the locker room. If so, he has to go.
2) Tactical decisions and lineup choices. Anyone that visited this board during the season knows quite a bit of the gripes made on this (me included). I know he had limited choices as to who could play and where (logjam at CM), but there were consistently decisions that were made that were mind-blowing.
Click to expand...

1) What evidence do we have that he lost the locker room? Yes, we had issues in August, but it seemed like Kreis had motivated the team and got some wins against difficult opponents in September. I just don't see the evidence that he lost the locker room. I mean, Pirlo looked like he came over looking for a vacation but that's not quite "losing the locker room"

2) I agree that he made some bad decisions, but I think that for the most part his hand was forced by the money spent. If you have to put out Lampard, Pirlo, Villa and Mix the rest of your lineup despite possible tweaks just isn't going to be that great because Pirlo's defensive disinterest forces you into a 4-5-1 that doesn't favor Villa and forces Poku & Mullins to the bench. It's a bad lineup that benches the young players who need to develop and I don't think Vieira will be able to change that, even if the DPs are motivated to play for him.
 
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