Patrick Vieira Appointed As NYCFC Coach

[LionNYC]

Patrick Vieira coming to NYCFC is like Ted Lasso coaching at Tottenham, except he knows the sport.

 

[FirstTeamer]

Our early schedule includes getting 5 points out of 5 matches against the Union and Fire, with draws against the Rapids and Dynamo and a loss to RSL among the non-playoff teams.

The wins we got in our hot streak (June 6-July 26) before Pirlo & the others caused the turnover aren't against total cupcakes. Yes, we beat the Union, but we also beat the playoff-bound Impact twice and playoff bound TFC once. After Pirlo comes in, we would then lose to that same Impact (who still didn't have 100% Drogba yet). So NYCFC got wins against better teams then they were losing to previously.

It's fair to point out that the schedule got harder, with two matches against the Crew, one against RB and one in LA, but it's also fair to point out that NYCFC got plastered in those matches. NYCFC were pretty much run off the field in the month of August. I think that significant a level of dropoff isn't solely explained by the increased difficulty in the schedule, but rather facing that difficult schedule while also trying to figure out basic issues like lineup construction and chemistry.

If anything, the difficulty in schedule is a point in favor of Kreis. In the easier early schedule, he was hampered with no Lampard, an injured Villa, and the basic issues all expansion clubs have. By the time Kreis got the reinforcements, he was facing the best teams in the league while trying to create a cohesive squad.

After that horrid month of August, Kreis then put together a solid four game stretch, with an encouraging display in a loss to FCD outside an atrocious last two minutes of the first half that's all on the players followed up by wins over TFC, a surging San Jose team looking for the last playoff spot, then the win against Vancouver who finished second in the difficult West.

The point here isn't that the results prove Kreis is awesome; it's that the roster turnover makes the results in Season 1 a bad set of data, and more data is required in order to evaluate whether Kreis was the right manager. In that sense, nothing in Season 1 should alter the view we had of him on Day 1, when we were all excited to see him brought on. And there's a reason many MLS teams are being asked about Kreis as their next coach: the smart folks in MLS know that Kreis shouldn't be defined by Season 1 of NYCFC but rather his body of work with RSL.

And to be blunt: CFG didn't fire Kreis b/c he's a bad coach. Their press release was about controlling the narrative in their favor, but there's no reason to realistically demand playoffs in year 1 (look at MLS preseason predictions. It was not unanimous that NYCFC made the playoffs, and those that had us there had us in spot 5 or 6, meaning it was tenuous). They fired Kreis because they needed to hand Vieira a first team coaching gig. That's not a proper way to run a serious club, and fans ought to be outraged.

You're privy to the boardroom then to know why he was fired. Why are you wasting time here instead of running the club? Surely you're better at it than the professionals

 

[S1ARK5]

The guy that built RSL is now the GM for Seattle. His name is Garth Lagerway.

Say what you want about Kreis, but he was never the roster genius people made him out to be. It was Lagerway.

While yes that is true to an extent, do not underestimate the relationships that must co-exist to be successful at the top level. Both Kreis and Lagerway built the rosters together, and it was Kreis who made it all gel on the field which is the most important piece. Because no matter what players the GM brings, if the coach isn't able to put those guys in the right situation both off the pitch (locker room) and on the pitch (tactics), it won't work.

 

[SoupInNYC]

1) What evidence do we have that he lost the locker room? Yes, we had issues in August, but it seemed like Kreis had motivated the team and got some wins against difficult opponents in September. I just don't see the evidence that he lost the locker room. I mean, Pirlo looked like he came over looking for a vacation but that's not quite "losing the locker room"

2) I agree that he made some bad decisions, but I think that for the most part his hand was forced by the money spent. If you have to put out Lampard, Pirlo, Villa and Mix the rest of your lineup despite possible tweaks just isn't going to be that great because Pirlo's defensive disinterest forces you into a 4-5-1 that doesn't favor Villa and forces Poku & Mullins to the bench. It's a bad lineup that benches the young players who need to develop and I don't think Vieira will be able to change that, even if the DPs are motivated to play for him.

1) There is no hard evidence, and I would be surprised if there is. But there sure are quite a lot of hints. (the comments he made regarding player's wanting to be there and Lampard's response to that, the reports coming out that the firing was in part persuaded by the DPs - understand that does not consist of the whole locker room). This is one we will never be able to fully grasp, but my main point is that this is something that CFG could look at and judge Kreis on after Day 1

2) Agreed he was handcuffed a bit here with options. But he still managed to make and keep making personnel decisions that did not seem to line up. We could go back and forth on this one for a while, but my main point here is you mentioned there was nothing we can look at this year from Day 1 to evaluate Kreis on, but this is definitely something to evaluate him on.

 

[MikeDatTiger]

You're privy to the boardroom then to know why he was fired. Why are you wasting time here images of running the club? Surely you're better at it than the professionals

"wasting time here images of running the club." Maybe you should check to make sure you're writing in coherent, much less complete, sentences before you drop the overused cliché burn?

 

[MikeDatTiger]

1) There is no hard evidence, and I would be surprised if there is. But there sure are quite a lot of hints. (the comments he made regarding player's wanting to be there and Lampard's response to that, the reports coming out that the firing was in part persuaded by the DPs - understand that does not consist of the whole locker room). This is one we will never be able to fully grasp, but my main point is that this is something that CFG could look at and judge Kreis on after Day 1

2) Agreed he was handcuffed a bit here with options. But he still managed to make and keep making personnel decisions that did not seem to line up. We could go back and forth on this one for a while, but my main point here is you mentioned there was nothing we can look at this year from Day 1 to evaluate Kreis on, but this is definitely something to evaluate him on.

1) there are hints, but the reports after the fact I'm always skeptical of. Fair to point to Kreis's comments about not wanting to be there, but if that was directed at the DPs, then did Kreis lose them after a month? That was in August. If Kreis did lose them after a month, I think that bodes very ill for our chances with these DPs. However, the argument CFG made in that vicious press release was performance on the field based, not in the locker room. I feel like had their been serious issues in the locker room, that would have been brought up too. It's not like they were holding back.

2) I think you're inflating what I said. I said we have too little useful data, not that there is no data, to evaluate Kreis on. We can go on forever about his lineups and the wisdom, but my point was that during an expansion year when one is trying to evaluate players both individually and as fits in a system you'll have many such questionable lineup decisions. Kreis would be right to be somewhat experimental, especially in the beginning. To me, that renders making a performance based decision on a manager at this point to be ridiculous. Had Kreis continued to make some bad decisions next season, with a whole preseason with the full squad under his belt, I think CFG would have a better performance based case.

 

[SoupInNYC]

1) there are hints, but the reports after the fact I'm always skeptical of. Fair to point to Kreis's comments about not wanting to be there, but if that was directed at the DPs, then did Kreis lose them after a month? That was in August. If Kreis did lose them after a month, I think that bodes very ill for our chances with these DPs. However, the argument CFG made in that vicious press release was performance on the field based, not in the locker room. I feel like had their been serious issues in the locker room, that would have been brought up too. It's not like they were holding back.

2) I think you're inflating what I said. I said we have too little useful data, not that there is no data, to evaluate Kreis on. We can go on forever about his lineups and the wisdom, but my point was that during an expansion year when one is trying to evaluate players both individually and as fits in a system you'll have many such questionable lineup decisions. Kreis would be right to be somewhat experimental, especially in the beginning. To me, that renders making a performance based decision on a manager at this point to be ridiculous. Had Kreis continued to make some bad decisions next season, with a whole preseason with the full squad under his belt, I think CFG would have a better performance based case.

Fair enough.

I do agree with you that there are quite a lot of limitations to fully evaluate Kreis on this year. That said, there were many things that I saw with him that frustrated the hell out of me. I would have kept him for another year for further evaluation, but I'm not against the firing either.

I'm not quite sure I would call the press release vicious though. It seemed pretty run-of-the-mill as far as firing of a head coach for any sport goes. I don't think there would have been any reason to bring up locker room issues if they did exist. It would only call on more questions from the players and potentially create further issues.

 

[AndreT_NY]

Re

Real fans support trophies or not.

This guy gets it.

 

[typicalcity]

I was really hoping he would come over to NYC after the Celtic loan. Solid on the ball, big strong back with vision

Sorry mate Jason is far too good a player for mls.the smart money would go on martin demichalis finnishing at nyfc

 

[Ulrich]

"Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs? Playoffs?" - Vieira, Day 1

FIFY - "Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs? If we finish top of table, why do we need to play any more? We are champions, Oui?" - Vieira, Day 1

 

[Mikeylito]

We could go back and forth on this one for a while,

I thought that was evident.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Assuming Ian Joy is correct, JK began to lose the locker room (or at least his captain) as early as when he surprisingly yanked DV in the 60th(ish) minute. That game would have been the May 10 game against the Red Bulls. Yes, MAY, which likely means almost an entire season of dissension and discord, which I suspect only got worse. There's no recovering from that. Nothing else matters, it was a fait accompli for a while.

You know, that's also when he pulled Mix early and then criticized him in the media, right? So, what you're saying, as I've said, is that the Lampard v. Kreis bullshit is just that, right? At most, it was one more mark against Kreis.

I think Kreis totally shot himself in the head with the comments he made about lack of effort. Lampard's response had nothing to do with it.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Yes I understand, but my thought is that pipeline will be there and just when whatever player it is starts to excel, they'll be brought back to whatever "big boy" club sent them. I don't understand how we build a club on that principle. I think we would have been a CFG proving ground regardless of who coached/managed here. So we basically need someone that can handle big name DPs, youngsters coming in and out every year and interchangeable role players. I don't nor does anyone else have an idea as to whether or not he can perform in that setting. It's only a hunch or feeling as to anyone thinking he can. I sure the hell hope I'm wrong and it works out...but I'm just not as optimistic as the rest of you. Maybe it's the stink of the season still clouding my thoughts...I don't know. I'm ok with it, just not going gaga like many others are.

I guess that shit matters if you only want to root for players. I've been a fan of enough sports for long enough to accept the fact that I root for laundry. If you bust your ass when you pull on the shirt, that's good enough for me.

As for the CFG proving ground, I'd say that evidence is contrary to that. We got ONE guy when Kreis was here. We got another after Soriano came over and saw first hand what a shit show we were. I would bet there are many more options that will now present themselves.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Sorry mate Jason is far too good a player for mls.the smart money would go on martin demichalis finnishing at nyfc

This board is far too good for you.

 

[FirstTeamer]

"wasting time here images of running the club." Maybe you should check to make sure you're writing in coherent, much less complete, sentences before you drop the overused cliché burn?

Autocorrect, sir pedant. Anyway shouldn't you be out scouting our next signing?

 

[william straiton]

Jason Denayer would be great for us - had a decent season at Celtic. Plummer and Ntcham were decent, going by the reliable source that is Football Manager.

Jason is playing in Turkey for the season and Champions League football. Plummer isn't anywhere near good enough and Ntcham is on a 2 year loan deal at Genoa.

If four players are loaned I would like them to be Tosin Adarabioyo, 18, Centre Half, Kean Bryan, 18. Midfielder, Brandon Barker, 19, Winger & Thierry Ambrose, 18, Striker

I believe these four would make an impact on the team

Other possibilities are:

Cameron Humprhies, 17, Centre Half
Pablo Maffeo, 18, Right Back,
George Evans, 20, Midfielder
George Glendon, 19, Midfielder
Bersant Celina, 18, Midfielder
Aaron Nemane, 18, Winger

It will be interesting to see who does go if any

 

[NickA]

I guess that shit matters if you only want to root for players. I've been a fan of enough sports for long enough to accept the fact that I root for laundry. If you bust your ass when you pull on the shirt, that's good enough for me.

As for the CFG proving ground, I'd say that evidence is contrary to that. We got ONE guy when Kreis was here. We got another after Soriano came over and saw first hand what a shit show we were. I would bet there are many more options that will now present themselves.

How about I root for both. I can be 100% invested in the laundry but also have admiration towards players too. Let's put it this way...we get a kid like Angelino come in. I salivate at his potential at LM/LW. He comes, then he goes. How is that good for the team? Now if you tell me having PV managing this team keeps a kid like that here for a few years, then I'm sold..but if every year we bring in a new CFG phenom then he's jettisoned out at the end of the year, it sucks.

Maybe I'm looking too much into it. In reality, Patrick is a major upgrade to Jason in my book....so in the end it's just nitpicking. It's a win/win for the team going into 2016 any way we look at it.

 

[Ulrich]

I guess that shit matters if you only want to root for players. I've been a fan of enough sports for long enough to accept the fact that I root for laundry. If you bust your ass when you pull on the shirt, that's good enough for me.

As for the CFG proving ground, I'd say that evidence is contrary to that. We got ONE guy when Kreis was here. We got another after Soriano came over and saw first hand what a shit show we were. I would bet there are many more options that will now present themselves.

For all we know Kreis was offered his pick of four and he turned them down saying, "nah, the roster is solid. I've got Ned at 10 and Chris is playing CB, but maybe I'll take Facey as cover for right back."

 

[Ulrich]

How about I root for both. I can be 100% invested in the laundry but also have admiration towards players too. Let's put it this way...we get a kid like Angelino come in. I salivate at his potential at LM/LW. He comes, then he goes. How is that good for the team? Now if you tell me having PV managing this team keeps a kid like that here for a few years, then I'm sold..but if every year we bring in a new CFG phenom then he's jettisoned out at the end of the year, it sucks.

Maybe I'm looking too much into it. In reality, Patrick is a major upgrade to Jason in my book....so in the end it's just nitpicking. It's a win/win for the team going into 2016 any way we look at it.

You must hate college sports then since player turnover is every 3 years for most sports and sometimes 1 year for basketball ?.?.?

 

[mcfc9320group]

I want to feel excited for this but it's just... tainted. First thing I note is 3 year deal. Are they giving Pellegrini 3 more years?

Pellegrini signed a two year extention in the summer so he now has 2 1/2 years left on his contract at City,Forget the City connection because from what I know Paddy was in for various jobs throughout Europe over the past 12 months but he was told to wait until if he wanted the NYCFC job and when I was told that a long time ago that's exactly how it panned out and from what i'm guessing Kreis maybe knew he was only here for the one season to setup NYCFC and knew he would be gone which is a shame but with Paddy you have a top class coach and he will take you/us onto the next level and I expect him to win the league next season or come very close.

Just back him and he will deliver I promise