Patrick Vieira in line to become new manager of Saint-Etienne

[adam]

If Vieira played Lewis less than we wanted, Caleb Porter wouldn't play Lewis at all. He's terrible at giving youth players minutes.

Who said Caleb Porter for our new manager? I just said I would have been really upset and worried if PV left us after last season. This season, not so much.

 

[NickA]

I find it mad that Vieira can lead us to our best ever league finish, improve the team in every area, by every metric, and then have people undermine him at the end of the season because they disagreed with who played RB in the first leg of a playoff game. Or because they've "seen enough of Lewis" to somehow know how to use him better than the coaching staff. (Extra spark to do what exactly, btw? Win the Supporters' Shield? Score a third goal in the Columbus game, maybe. But otherwise?)

We all disagree with the manager sometimes. It's what keeps us going in between games most of the time. And I hate to look like the 'PV knows best' guy. But suggesting that he isn't the right man for the job because he didn't put out your fantasy first XI every game is such a fucking reach it's unbelievable. Sure, we could sack him for not making the subs you like. But it puts you one bad appointment away from another year of Kreis-level shit. I'll pass.

Jesus with these soccer noobs.

Riddle me this. What did YOU see from our winger play all year to think Lewis didn't deserve real opportunity?

 

[ZYanksRule]

Jesus with these soccer noobs.

Riddle me this. What did YOU see from our winger play all year to think Lewis didn't deserve real opportunity?

Lewis should have been off the bench a lot more, but the starters were easily Wallace and Harrison, even when both of them struggled. They're the guys with the most skill, they're the guys that should start.

And I agree with ManhattanValley that we should trust Vieira more than we do, because we don't know what happens behind closed doors. He has reasons for his decisions, they're not being made in a vacuum.

 

[NickA]

Lewis should have been off the bench a lot more, but the starters were easily Wallace and Harrison, even when both of them struggled. They're the guys with the most skill, they're the guys that should start.

And I agree with ManhattanValley that we should trust Vieira more than we do, because we don't know what happens behind closed doors. He has reasons for his decisions, they're not being made in a vacuum.

I didn't say he sucked or he was the only reason we lost in the first round again. He's just not a tactical genius that can't be replaced...he's a decent, up and coming coach. That's it. Is there really any basis to say he's anything more? I don't think they would be any worse with someone else.

 

[ManhattanValley]

Jesus with these soccer noobs.

Riddle me this. What did YOU see from our winger play all year to think Lewis didn't deserve real opportunity?

I thought Lewis deserved more minutes than he got. Not sure if the season would have finished any different if he had. It's not like we were going to catch Toronto because he came off the bench a little earlier. By your own admission we're dealing with a small sample size here, so I think all of our assessments of Lewis aren't as good as we think they are.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is Vieira's doing a lot more right than he is wrong. A lot more. We're the second best team in the country, and getting better every year. In the grand scheme of things, I'm not too concerned about how many minutes our third-choice rookie winger is getting. Find it a bit bizarre that people are choosing this particular hill to die on.

 

[Ulrich]

Every game (4) Lewis started we won. Every game. Even the Chicago match when down a man for eternity. The record with him on the field in any capacity 7w-3t-2l. But stats are meaningless.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Every game (4) Lewis started we won. Every game. Even the Chicago match when down a man for eternity. The record with him on the field in any capacity 7w-3t-2l. But stats are meaningless.

I don't think anybody is arguing that Lewis didn't look promising. Even if it's possible to pick holes in the stats (e.g. maybe he got minutes because we thought he was up against weaker opposition, or because we thought he was tailor-made for a particular circumstance).

We are saying don't throw the baby (our vast improvement as a team and on an individual basis) out with the bath water (Lewis not getting more time on the pitch).

 

[TabascoDiva]

I know soccer managers don't do this. It's just not part of the tradition or how it's done, but I'm going to repeat something I wrote last June. I wish we had a Don Zimmer type coach on our staff. New baseball managers and NFL head coaches do this all the time. Soccer, basketball and hockey not as much, though it is not unknown in the NBA. I guess they think it makes you weak. But kudos to those who have the self-confidence to hire an assistant who is older and more experienced and can be trusted not to undermine you and will never volunteer suggestions but will just sit there and basically answer the same question over and over during games: "what do you think?" It helps to have someone around who is able to disagree with you --privately.

that is a Great solution in theory, in practice is dubiou, Egos will get in the way. To create that working respectful environment takes humility from both sides of the work relationship and it takes time.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I know soccer managers don't do this. It's just not part of the tradition or how it's done, but I'm going to repeat something I wrote last June. I wish we had a Don Zimmer type coach on our staff. New baseball managers and NFL head coaches do this all the time. Soccer, basketball and hockey not as much, though it is not unknown in the NBA. I guess they think it makes you weak. But kudos to those who have the self-confidence to hire an assistant who is older and more experienced and can be trusted not to undermine you and will never volunteer suggestions but will just sit there and basically answer the same question over and over during games: "what do you think?" It helps to have someone around who is able to disagree with you --privately.

The VP of Common Sense. Initially popularized by Bill Simmons, I have crafted this into a career. Literally, I'm internally, and occasionally externally, referred to as the EVP of Common Sense. While I'm not older or more experienced than our C-level guys, it's the same underlying philosophy. Having someone outside of the echo chamber who has the freedom (or balls) to say, "hey man, hold up a sec."

And now I see I'm replying to a 6 month old message. I need a VP of Common Sense.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

If Vieira played Lewis less than we wanted, Caleb Porter wouldn't play Lewis at all. He's terrible at giving youth players minutes.

Yet he turned out some of the most MLS ready players at Akron.

Anachronistic, for sure.

Eta: Not anachronistic. Appropriate term would be paradoxical.

 

[gbservis]

This is a very strange thread for a Lewis conversation. Every time it pops up in new posts I assume there is a new PV to leave for euro club X rumor. Nope, just a why didn't PV play Lewis convo in a random year old thread about a fake PV rumor.

 

[mgarbowski]

The VP of Common Sense. Initially popularized by Bill Simmons, I have crafted this into a career. Literally, I'm internally, and occasionally externally, referred to as the EVP of Common Sense. While I'm not older or more experienced than our C-level guys, it's the same underlying philosophy. Having someone outside of the echo chamber who has the freedom (or balls) to say, "hey man, hold up a sec."

And now I see I'm replying to a 6 month old message. I need a VP of Common Sense.

My words are timeless.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I didn't say he sucked or he was the only reason we lost in the first round again. He's just not a tactical genius that can't be replaced...he's a decent, up and coming coach. That's it. Is there really any basis to say he's anything more? I don't think they would be any worse with someone else.

Agreed with this post.

I thought Lewis deserved more minutes than he got. Not sure if the season would have finished any different if he had. It's not like we were going to catch Toronto because he came off the bench a little earlier. By your own admission we're dealing with a small sample size here, so I think all of our assessments of Lewis aren't as good as we think they are.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is Vieira's doing a lot more right than he is wrong. A lot more. We're the second best team in the country, and getting better every year. In the grand scheme of things, I'm not too concerned about how many minutes our third-choice rookie winger is getting. Find it a bit bizarre that people are choosing this particular hill to die on.

Also agree with this post, especially that he's doing a lot more right than he is wrong. We could do a lot worse than Patrick Vieira.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

My words are timeless.

 

[Falastur]

This is a very strange thread for a Lewis conversation. Every time it pops up in new posts I assume there is a new PV to leave for euro club X rumor. Nope, just a why didn't PV play Lewis convo in a random year old thread about a fake PV rumor.

Someone needs to read further up the thread. I posted a link to an article yesterday saying that St Etienne once again want PV to replace someone they've just sacked.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Even more reason for him to not go there. Sounds dysfunctional.

 

[LionNYC]

Someone needs to read further up the thread. I posted a link to an article yesterday saying that St Etienne once again want PV to replace someone they've just sacked.

Which just shows that St Etienne wouldn't be a safe place for Vieira to coach. At least with NYCFC/CFG, he's probably guaranteed to be Man City's manager once Pep leaves. And he's getting everything he wants in New York (aside from coaching in Europe and the archaic MLS roster rules) while being paid handsomely.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

he's probably guaranteed to be Man City's manager once Pep leaves.

You believe that? I don’t think that’s anything close to a certainty. More likely a remote possibility.

 

[Christopher Jee]

You believe that? I don’t think that’s anything close to a certainty. More likely a remote possibility.

Yeah, that is a massive leap. Especially when they could maybe have him head things up at Girona or Groningen first. Or maybe even assist Pep for a season.

 

[Falastur]

Which just shows that St Etienne wouldn't be a safe place for Vieira to coach.

Oh, I completely agree, although in fairness I would argue that there have been multiple occasions when other teams have done the same thing and not necessarily been a poisoned chalice. Sure, a team that sacks a manager after only 4 months is worrisome, but far from unusual these days.

At least with NYCFC/CFG, he's probably guaranteed to be Man City's manager once Pep leaves. And he's getting everything he wants in New York (aside from coaching in Europe and the archaic MLS roster rules) while being paid handsomely.

I think CFG want him to be Pep's successor, but I'd like to think that he will have to show a little more before he earns that job for definite. I'd be concerned if Soriano and Khaldoon were willing to give him the position regardless of his previous performance.