Stadium Discussion

[Drainyoo]

This will sound combative, but please don't take it that way: How is it more difficult? It is the hub of every greater metro area transportation system. Barring it being in one's outer-borough backyard (which would itself be applicable only to a population orders of magnitude smaller than any "backyard" within the city proper), Manhattan is the easiest place to get both with regards to frequency and options of mode. Parking would be expensive, But if you make the choice you can pay the price IMO. Otherwise, do the world and yourself a favor and be a good metro citizen: park and ride via one of the 5 gazillion trains or buses.

My perception of the reason there hasn't been another pro sports venue has little to do with what you're suggesting. I think it comes down to 2 (hugely difficult to overcome) issues: 1) finding suitable ground space that 2) meets whatever financial parameters are in play for the prospective developer/tenant/financiers.

Financial concerns aren't the only reason why there aren't other stadiums in Manhattan. They are many reasons why, most of which I've already mentioned.

Anyway, in my opinion the other boroughs make more sense. Manhattan doesn't have the space, and can't accomodate people who drive in from outside the city.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Financial concerns aren't the only reason why there aren't other stadiums in Manhattan. They are many reasons why, most of which I've already mentioned.

Anyway, in my opinion the other boroughs make more sense. Manhattan doesn't have the space, and can't accomodate people who drive in from outside the city.

Those other reasons were what I pointed out as not really existing. It's no secret to anyone that Manhattan is the easiest borough for travel. Hell, by virtue of geography, which is even more accentuated by both currently existing and planned infrastructure, it's pretty obvious that most of the world can't get to any other borough without going through Manhattan.

I am not saying it will happen, but to argue that a stadium in Manhattsn would be anything other than a marquee accomplishment for NYCFC, CFG, MLS and the entire city and nation's soccer culture is approaching this with a significantly biased predisposition towards some other desired outcome.

 

[Kjbert]

Yes, south of Yankee Stadium. I believe someone here has already outlined it on this thread.

The plan is to build the most technologically advanced stadium in the league. ALL of it will be privately financed.

I don't know what the hold up is. But the plan and the spot have been decided.

 

[CP_Scouse]

Why would anyone drive?

 

[JonsConspiracy]

Yes, south of Yankee Stadium. I believe someone here has already outlined it on this thread.

The plan is to build the most technologically advanced stadium in the league. ALL of it will be privately financed.

I don't know what the hold up is. But the plan and the spot have been decided.

It's not exactly all privately financed at the Yankee Stadium location. The way I understand it, they will pay the cost to build the stadium, but they want to buy the land at a cost that is significantly less than the debt that is in place on the parking garages. So the city would have to default on the debt, or make up the difference. The club also wants $350M of tax-exempt bonds to finance the stadium -- so while they would pay the $350M over time, the city would be giving them a tax break for many years to come. To be sure, the city would be giving far less tax breaks and loans to NYCFC than they did to Yankee Stadium or Citi Field or the Barclays Center. But we're dealing with soccer here, not the American past time sport... it will be hard to get the community behind the plan.

 

[D_RoyJenkins]

Putting a stadium in Manhattan is a terrible idea. Between not having space for parking, and the awful traffic, you're making it very difficult for a lot of people who live outside of NYC to make games. There's a reason why there's only one sports arena on Manhattan. Maybe north Manhattan can work, but nowhere else. It would be a nightmare for fans, and for residence.

Brooklyn, Queens or Bronx are the only viable options imho. They all have mass transit and major highways running through them, and space.

If they build the stadium in Manhattan they won't need people driving into the city to help attendance.

 

[JonsConspiracy]

Putting a stadium in Manhattan is a terrible idea. Between not having space for parking, and the awful traffic, you're making it very difficult for a lot of people who live outside of NYC to make games. There's a reason why there's only one sports arena on Manhattan. Maybe north Manhattan can work, but nowhere else. It would be a nightmare for fans, and for residence.

Brooklyn, Queens or Bronx are the only viable options imho. They all have mass transit and major highways running through them, and space.

Have you ever looked at the ticket price differences between a Knick's game and a Nets game (when they were in Jersey), or a Rangers game vs a Islanders or Devil's game? It's way more expensive to get a ticket at MSG than virtually anywhere else. There's a reason why Manhattan works really well for sports games. Finding a development site is the only reason that every NY sports team is not located in Manhattan.

Everyone else has said it, but I'll say it again. If you're driving into Manhattan to see an event, then you're doing it wrong. Virtually every subway line leads into Manhattan. Most suburbs have a NJT/LIRR/MetNorth station within a 10-15 minute drive. Literally, tens of millions of people have a convenient way to get into Manhattan in about an hour or less (you can even going from Philly to Penn Station in an hour) -- put the stadium anywhere else and you can cut that in half.

 

[CP_Scouse]

Have you ever looked at the ticket price differences between a Knick's game and a Nets game (when they were in Jersey), or a Rangers game vs a Islanders or Devil's game? It's way more expensive to get a ticket at MSG than virtually anywhere else. There's a reason why Manhattan works really well for sports games.

Everyone else has said it, but I'll say it again. If you're driving into Manhattan to see an event, then you're doing it wrong. Virtually every subway line leads into Manhattan. Most suburbs have a NJT/LIRR/MetNorth station within a 10-15 minute drive. Literally, tens of millions of people have a convenient way to get into Manhattan in about an hour or less (you can even going from Philly to Penn Station in an hour) -- put the stadium anywhere else and you can cut that in half.

another thing about manhattan games, if they shceduel a game at lets say a friday evening, then you got the buisness men coming from work to see the game. buisness men taking clients to the game. students coming to the game. literally anyone can go to a game if its in manhattan

 

[JonsConspiracy]

another thing about manhattan games, if they shceduel a game at lets say a friday evening, then you got the buisness men coming from work to see the game. buisness men taking clients to the game. students coming to the game. literally anyone can go to a game if its in manhattan

That is so true about businessmen. My company pays a stupid amount of money to buy last minute tickets to sporting events. They'll spend thousands on box seats or courtside seats, and it's easily justified because the client will pay our company way more than the cost of the seats for our business. Taking a client to MSG after a day of meetings is far easier than schlepping out to Citi Field, or the Meadowlands.

In case you're wondering, I'm not important enough to get invited to these sporting events, I just hear about them the next day

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Manhattan is a great choice for all the reasons listed above, but if the NFL couldn't get a stadium there when the Jets tried 5 years ago (when NFL was at an absolute peak of popularity) Soccer is not getting one now. Best case scenario is Bronx, because you aren't drawing from Jersey since the Red Bulls are there. Your base market is LI, NYC, Upstate NY and FFLD cty. Bronx is right in the middle of that.

 

[CP_Scouse]

Manhattan is a great choice for all the reasons listed above, but if the NFL couldn't get a stadium there when the Jets tried 5 years ago (when NFL was at an absolute peak of popularity) Soccer is not getting one now. Best case scenario is Bronx, because you aren't drawing from Jersey since the Red Bulls are there. Your base market is LI, NYC, Upstate NY and FFLD cty. Bronx is right in the middle of that.

but the potential market is far higher if a stadium is in manhattan. Lets say the stadium is by the UN, theres an empty plot there. Now you got students from, NYU, Columbia, CUNY, FIT, and other schools coming to the game. When younger students (highschool) see that college kids go to the Brand New NYCFC stadium for games, then the teams has also earned the highschool demographic. Also you would have buisness men coming from the financial district, midtown, and uptown coming. More people than the bronx would have to offer as a site.

IF the site is in the bronx, then the team would lose all that and would have to work literally from the ground up, fan wise

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

but the potential market is far higher if a stadium is in manhattan. Lets say the stadium is by the UN, theres an empty plot there. Now you got students from, NYU, Columbia, CUNY, FIT, and other schools coming to the game. When younger students (highschool) see that college kids go to the Brand New NYCFC stadium for games, then the teams has also earned the highschool demographic. Also you would have buisness men coming from the financial district, midtown, and uptown coming. More people than the bronx would have to offer as a site.

IF the site is in the bronx, then the team would lose all that and would have to work literally from the ground up, fan wise

Definitely, You are right, but its just too expensive to build a stadium in NY that will be used at most once or twice a week. That's why the NFL couldn't make it work. And they were going to build it on the pier and create their own space. You are never getting a stadium downtown, its not even worth thinking about. Never happening.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

All those people are making the 15 minute trip from manhattan anyway. The bronx is not a bad trip. Its one subway line to yankee stadium.

 

[CP_Scouse]

All those people are making the 15 minute trip from manhattan anyway. The bronx is not a bad trip. Its one subway line to yankee stadium.

but for the buisness men, it right outside their office. For the students, it a 8 minute ride into familiar terriority.
if the SSS is in the bronx, do you think the students, with the limited time and resources they have would make the trip all the way to the bronx? and the same goes for the buisness men

 

[JonsConspiracy]

but the potential market is far higher if a stadium is in manhattan. Lets say the stadium is by the UN, theres an empty plot there. Now you got students from, NYU, Columbia, CUNY, FIT, and other schools coming to the game. When younger students (highschool) see that college kids go to the Brand New NYCFC stadium for games, then the teams has also earned the highschool demographic. Also you would have buisness men coming from the financial district, midtown, and uptown coming. More people than the bronx would have to offer as a site.

IF the site is in the bronx, then the team would lose all that and would have to work literally from the ground up, fan wise

While Manhattan would be ideal. The site near Yankee Stadium is a very close to ideal. The B/D and 4/5/6 line serve the west and east side of Manhattan up and down most of the island, so just about anyone in the city is a 10 minute walk and less than 30 minute subway ride away. Also, the B/D is easily accessible from Penn Station (take the A train and make a very easy transfer at 59th, 125th, or 145th st to B/D), and the 4/5/6 goes right through Grand Central.

The proximity of Yankee Stadium to most of the city is a primary reason why the Yankee's are more popular than the Mets. Getting to Citi Field is more complicated for most people.

 

[JonsConspiracy]

but for the buisness men, it right outside their office. For the students, it a 8 minute ride into familiar terriority.
if the SSS is in the bronx, do you think the students, with the limited time and resources they have would make the trip all the way to the bronx? and the same goes for the buisness men

I see the argument for businessmen, but a subway ride cost the same within Manhattan and to any other borough, so I don't know why cost would discourage students (it's $5 round-trip, if you can't afford that, then why are you buying tickets to a soccer game, and why are you going to school in Manhattan)... Also, is the extra 30 minutes of travel time really a dealbreaker for most students? When I think of time-strapped people, students don't usually come to mind.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I see the argument for businessmen, but a subway ride cost the same within Manhattan and to any other borough, so I don't know why cost would discourage students (it's $5 round-trip, if you can't afford that, then why are you buying tickets to a soccer game, and why are you going to school in Manhattan)... Also, is the extra 30 minutes of travel time really a dealbreaker for most students? When I think of time-strapped people, students don't usually come to mind.

I was going to say that about students with no time and money. when i look back to college, I haven enevr had more free time.

 

[D_RoyJenkins]

IIRC wasn't it Dolan who opposed the Jets plan for a stadium in the city? Plus a SSS doesn't need as much space as a football stadium

 

[413Blue]

but for the buisness men, it right outside their office. For the students, it a 8 minute ride into familiar terriority.
if the SSS is in the bronx, do you think the students, with the limited time and resources they have would make the trip all the way to the bronx? and the same goes for the buisness men

And for any land in Manhattan suitable for a stadium will greatly exceed $1Bn, not too mention extremely high construction and operating costs. You will not lose enough of those businessmen and students in the Bronx to justify those outrageous costs.

 

[Gene]

IIRC wasn't it Dolan who opposed the Jets plan for a stadium in the city? Plus a SSS doesn't need as much space as a football stadium

That's what I recall. Dolan and Comcast (at least I believe was Comcast) went balls out to stop the West Side Stadium project, because it would have been direct competition with their other business interests.......not to dissimilar to how the Mets and the USTA put the brakes on the Flushing Meadows deal (NIMBY's had little to do wit it).

As a side note, exactly WHO is feeding info that the site will definitely be at 153rd st?