Stadium Discussion

[adam]

It may just be that I wasn't brought up with the experience of US government or sports team relocations etc but there are some bits of this that I just don't buy. OK, sure, I get the argument about the debt repayments not being covered by property tax, though the article neatly sidesteps the issue that if the local authority had had to shell out the additional $65m then it's debt repayments on the higher amount would've been far higher and the fixed rent wouldn't have made up the difference. However, I can't see the other points he makes.

Under the new deal, OCSC have to buy the land outright, so that entails automatic income to the city, and as the landowners it is only right that they have no extra rent prices to pay and that they take over the management (and therefore revenue) of the stadium. The idea that a city legislature should believe it has a right to operate the stadium and take its profits is nonsense. I also don't get the arguments about fears that the team will sell up. Yes, ok, they might just do that, but if they do then tough, deal with it. The city doesn't own the team and can't expect a cash cow which has fallen into their lap to also act like it's in some kind of bondage to them meaning they have an obligation to stay put and keep giving the city that lovely green. Businesses don't work like that. If they want to leave they can, end of story. As the article itself points out, in order to leave they have to either sell the land again (suggesting some kind of beneficial replacement anyway) or swallow the costs of owning two stadia with one mothballed, which is hardly attractive to a sports team.

I don't know. Is it the culture difference here or am I missing something?

A few odd parts of this deal he points out are that the city bears the cost to bring utilities and sewer into the stadium and also pay for costs of environmental remediation (normally covered by property owner). That's shown as a minimum of $18.5mm in costs according to the article. I believe those are the sticking points for the journalist (and would be for me too if I were on the city board). If OCSC paid those costs the city would only have paid the $10.6mm in land acquisition costs. That's $7.4mm profit for the city if they recieved the $18mm purchase price and OCSC paid for all utilities and remediation. Plus his estimated $67,000 pa in tax revenue that we're assuming the city would never have recoeved from another use of the land? That's a much more fair deal and looks like something that would be drawn up in a free market. I'm not going to get political, but these types of "deals" piss me off.

 

[Ulrich]

A few odd parts of this deal he points out are that the city bears the cost to bring utilities and sewer into the stadium and also pay for costs of environmental remediation (normally covered by property owner). That's shown as a minimum of $18.5mm in costs according to the article. I believe those are the sticking points for the journalist (and would be for me too if I were on the city board). If OCSC paid those costs the city would only have paid the $10.6mm in land acquisition costs. That's $7.4mm profit for the city if they recieved the $18mm purchase price and OCSC paid for all utilities and remediation. Plus his estimated $67,000 pa in tax revenue that we're assuming the city would never have recoeved from another use of the land? That's a much more fair deal and looks like something that would be drawn up in a free market. I'm not going to get political, but these types of "deals" piss me off.

I think the real takeaway from the Vice article is that the residents of Harrison NJ should be pissed they're getting bubkas in Realestate taxes on RB arena because of such a fraudulent appraisal.

 

[mgarbowski]

A few odd parts of this deal he points out are that the city bears the cost to bring utilities and sewer into the stadium and also pay for costs of environmental remediation (normally covered by property owner). That's shown as a minimum of $18.5mm in costs according to the article. I believe those are the sticking points for the journalist (and would be for me too if I were on the city board). If OCSC paid those costs the city would only have paid the $10.6mm in land acquisition costs. That's $7.4mm profit for the city if they recieved the $18mm purchase price and OCSC paid for all utilities and remediation. Plus his estimated $67,000 pa in tax revenue that we're assuming the city would never have recoeved from another use of the land? That's a much more fair deal and looks like something that would be drawn up in a free market. I'm not going to get political, but these types of "deals" piss me off.

Agreed. There seems to be enough real grievances that I would have been on the side of the writer if he didn't try to bamboozle me.

 

[KyleWilkinson]

I think the real takeaway from the Vice article is that the residents of Harrison NJ should be pissed they're getting bubkas in Realestate taxes on RB arena because of such a fraudulent appraisal.

Yeah, what is that $30 million figure? Just some appraisal that's only used for tax purposes? The arena cost something like $200 million to build, so I'm assuming they could sell it for a lot more than $30 million if they wanted to.

 

[FredMertz]

When I think big cities in Florida, it's Orlando and Miami -- but further investigation says that Tampa is bigger than Orlando and JACKSONVILLE is twice the size of Miami. Would they dare move to Jacksonville, with a USL team already there? Maybe somewhere else in the south? Very strange. They should be happy where they are.

Jacksonville is the largest (by area) city in the United States. Miami proper is much smaller 1/16th the size, but the Miami metro area has a much larger population than the Jacksonville metro area. JAX is about 1.4mm people and Miami is ~6mm.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Jacksonville is the largest (by area) city in the United States. Miami proper is much smaller 1/16th the size, but the Miami metro area has a much larger population than the Jacksonville metro area. JAX is about 1.4mm people and Miami is ~6mm.

Correct. Ranked by metropolitan area, it's Miami/Ft. Lauderdale way ahead. Tampa/St. Pete a solid 2nd. Orlando 3rd, and Jax just back in 4th. Not sure where West Palm is these days, but sometimes gets lumped in with Miami. Same with Sarasota/Bradenton and Tampa. It's a little hard to divide MSAs with these beach communities that run together.

 

[Gotham Gator]

So, I spoke to my buddy at Fresh Direct. He worked on the sale. He didn't know anything about whether the buyer might have been fronting for us. He thought they were just happy to wait until the zoning changed and build residential. He did say if the buyer were fronting for someone, he wouldn't necessarily know it. He also said the move up to the Bronx has been a real slog. Lots of local political opposition, which I had forgotten about. They've been working on it for years, which is really strange given all the jobs it would create.

 

[Ulrich]

So, I spoke to my buddy at Fresh Direct. He worked on the sale. He didn't know anything about whether the buyer might have been fronting for us. He thought they were just happy to wait until the zoning changed and build residential. He did say if the buyer were fronting for someone, he wouldn't necessarily know it. He also said the move up to the Bronx has been a real slog. Lots of local political opposition, which I had forgotten about. They've been working on it for years, which is really strange given all the jobs it would create.

For a borough that needs a bit of revitalizing the Bronx sure isn't very welcoming.

 

[BxLio91]

Politicians are a cancer.

 

[adam]

For a borough that needs a bit of revitalizing the Bronx sure isn't very welcoming.

Their pols are like trolls hanging out under the throgs neck bridge. Can't cross unless they get theirs.

 

[Ulrich]

Their pols are like trolls hanging out under the throgs neck bridge. Can't cross unless they get theirs.

I've always felt that some of these local politicians are only 1-degree removed from the weekly shakedown.

 

[LionNYC]

Politicians are a cancer.

#GetNYCFCAStadiumInTheFiveBoroughsForTheFirstTime

 

[CP_Scouse]

Update: i just visited the sight. The buildings to the left of the Fresh Direct are also for sale.

Theres a cool bar/brewery called The Transmitter. Deff should be cool

 

[adam]

Update: i just visited the sight. The buildings to the left of the Fresh Direct are also for sale.

Theres a cool bar/brewery called The Transmitter. Deff should be cool

Hmm. I'll look into that tomorrow. Find out the deets

 

[mgarbowski]

Transmitter is a nanobrewery with limited hours, capacity, etc.

 

[FootyLovin]

Saw my ticket rep at the game. Said I was excited about the new rumored stadium location. He made no denials.

Newtown Creek confirmed!!!

 

[Albany_NYCFC]

Transmitter is a nanobrewery with limited hours, capacity, etc.

Will be at least a microbrewery if/when we move there!!!!

 

[mgarbowski]

Will be at least a microbrewery if/when we move there!!!!

Maybe they'll even install a public restroom!

 

[Rimil]

went to pick my girlfriend up, down in LIC, so i made an impromptu stop at the site (needless to say she was not as excited to get out and look as I was). Made some quick walking videos:

 

[Rimil]

went to pick my girlfriend up down in LIC, so i made an impromptu stop at the site (needless to say she was not as excited to get out and look as I was). Made some quick walking videos:

hmm not how i was hoping the clips would link, but at least it worked.

Anyhow, this was Saturday. the place was as empty as could be. Amazingly empty. So nice out too. I imagine with a stadium there it won't be as quiet.

Someone asked if you could overtake borden ave and move traffice to the next block. Unlikely. there is a bridge that goes over the creek. doubt moving that is in anyones budget. Driving to the spot was really easy. The whole area is so quiet. just blocks and blocks of factory/warehouse buildings but nothing going on people wise.