I'd like to believe that a Gold Cup performance that is consistent with the last 4 matches would lead to a change. It certainly should.
Poch is to blame for these results. He's been poor so far.
USMNT Talk
- Thread starter MyBoyVilla
- Start date
Poch is to blame for these results. He's been poor so far.
I doubt he gets sacked. They spent too much money and made too much of a big deal out of his hiring. They are riding it to the end and will probably mean we finish last in our WC group.
He is at fault for making the team play the way they try to play. We don't have the players for it. Why must be play out of the back like we're Spain!? Boot that thing up the field and red bull the ball back, aggressively but intelligently press the hell out of the other team, and take advantage of mistakes and counters. That's playing to our strengths. This tiki taka bullshit is not our strength and we are paying for it dearly. We can't play that way even if we had every first choice player in the squad.
I also think the players are to blame too. Poor decisions and lack of fire under their asses. Too much jogging around and lack of focus by my personal and unofficial eye test. Yes, that's a culture thing, but for the national team, it should be a given.
He is at fault for making the team play the way they try to play. We don't have the players for it. Why must be play out of the back like we're Spain!? Boot that thing up the field and red bull the ball back, aggressively but intelligently press the hell out of the other team, and take advantage of mistakes and counters. That's playing to our strengths. This tiki taka bullshit is not our strength and we are paying for it dearly. We can't play that way even if we had every first choice player in the squad.
I also think the players are to blame too. Poor decisions and lack of fire under their asses. Too much jogging around and lack of focus by my personal and unofficial eye test. Yes, that's a culture thing, but for the national team, it should be a given.
I think everything you've said pretty much says it's all because our players just aren't good enough. They were pretty bad under the last few coaches and they're still pretty bad under Poch. The US Men's team is just not very good.
US Women are championship level, US Men are meh. Seems simple.
I believe all the Golden Generation talk was based on a heuristic that failed. Generally players who go to Europe are better than those who remain in MLS. A lot of people, somewhat blinded by their own contempt for MLS, saw that we have more players than ever signed and getting some minutes in Europe, including teams in Europa and UCL play, and concluded this is the best generation of players we ever had.
I think what mostly changed is European managers and talent scouts stopped undervaluing US players about 10 years ago. So a bunch of US products who never would have been scouted by Europe before 2014 or so have since been scouted and signed. But they're not better than the previous generations. What changed is the Europeans stopped using their own false heuristic that US players mostly suck and lack skill. I think Klinsmann changed some hearts and minds over there.
So US players can play, compete, and contribute in European club play. But they're still not all that good at the national team level. Many fail to start or get regular minutes. You look at the top 10-15 national teams and rank their top 5 players against our top 5 players and maybe our #1 best is as good as their 5th best. In many instances there's arguably no overlap. Are any of our players even among the top 3 players on their club? Pulisic I guess. Anyone else? And for whatever reason, we haven't developed a striker who can score at the level of Donovan, Dempsey (not even really a striker) or even Altidore in a decade. Our scoring threats consist of Pulisic and disappointment. Team USA seems sort of similar to NYCFC when it comes to forwards. There's one guy who scores, and even he can have slumps, and little else.
yea, we aren't very good. but not every national team in the world is stacked with talent. some of them are on the same level as we are but they can still compete and make themselves hard to beat. I think that is definitely possible and reasonable to expect. it comes down to expecting us (coaches and fans alike) to play like a top 10 team in the world when we just aren't. our fifa ranking of 16 or whatever is too high. we are no better than 30 and that's being generous.
Maybe we had overhyped our players a bit, but the performances under Poch are the worst I've ever seen. This is much worse than how we performed under Berhalter, even at the end. A lot was made of our early exit in the Copa America, but that was mostly because Tim Weah decided to punch someone.
In the last 4 games under Poch, we were beaten by Panama (while being at full strength), beaten by Canada, beaten by Turkey and blown out by the Swiss. He's made questionable call ups, put players out of position and used poor strategy. It's been a fucking disaster.
In the last 4 games under Poch, we were beaten by Panama (while being at full strength), beaten by Canada, beaten by Turkey and blown out by the Swiss. He's made questionable call ups, put players out of position and used poor strategy. It's been a fucking disaster.
Marito
Registered
My feeling is always that except for the truly elite (Spain, France, Germany, Argentina, Portugal, England, the Netherlands, and a couple others) and the truly subpar, the big chunk of teams ranked between 20 or 25 and 60 are almost interchangeable. A good or a bad day (or cycle) are all that separates the US from Ecuador, Paraguay, Panama, Venezuela, Greece, Norway, Mexico, Japan, Morocco, Iran, etc. We'll never be able to dominate them. The US could be a true 30 or even a true 50 right now. It is not a big change. But we're not close to sniffing 16th, no matter what the FIFA rankings say.
ZYanksRule
Registered
I do think we also need to understand that we're missing our entire first-choice XI. We have a lot of guys who either wanted to rest or were injured.
We have guys like Pulisic who "offered" to play these friendlies but not the Gold Cup, as if players should get engraved invitations. The opportunity to play for the national team shouldn't have to be offered -- it should be something you throw yourself in front of and demand.
We have guys like Pulisic who "offered" to play these friendlies but not the Gold Cup, as if players should get engraved invitations. The opportunity to play for the national team shouldn't have to be offered -- it should be something you throw yourself in front of and demand.
i think your points are valid. the problem is the last two coaches have tried to get us to play like the elites instead of playing to our level and making up the talent gap with our athleticism and hard work/effort. the other night when i saw turner toss the ball to a CB so that CB could pass it back to him as they try to play out of the back... i couldn't be more dumbfounded as to why they thought this would be a good idea. we are not spain. hell, i don't even think spain plays that way.
