2017 Season Tactics Thread

[JGarrettLieb]

After seeing that stunning back heel no look pass to Villa last night on the part of Pirlo and the two or three absolute dimes he managed to drop, I'm back to trying to figure out if there is a way we can incorporate Pirlo's ghost into the squad.

I say the following with the full recognition that incorporating Pirlo severely disrupts the playstyle and tempo of the squad, and that we are probably a better team without Pirlo on the field, just because of how much his lack of mobility really distorts our team. But even still, if we can find some spark of the player that Pirlo was it might be worth it.

I'm thinking a floating 4-1-3-2 with ring shadowing Pirlo to clean up his messes.

White---Chanot----Callens----Mata (Please come back to us)

----------------Pirlo-----------------

Maxi-------Ring---------Herrera

Harrison----------Villa


Even as I look at it, I'm not sure that taking Wallace off for Pirlo is the best of ideas as Wallace adds another threat to help free up Villa and Harrison. But that question is really, is the additional threat that Wallace adds equivalent or greater than the value of Pirlo's ability to straight up bypass one or more lines of the opposition whenever he feels like it.

 

[Ulrich]

After seeing that stunning back heel no look pass to Villa last night on the part of Pirlo and the two or three absolute dimes he managed to drop, I'm back to trying to figure out if there is a way we can incorporate Pirlo's ghost into the squad.

I say the following with the full recognition that incorporating Pirlo severely disrupts the playstyle and tempo of the squad, and that we are probably a better team without Pirlo on the field, just because of how much his lack of mobility really distorts our team. But even still, if we can find some spark of the player that Pirlo was it might be worth it.

I'm thinking a floating 4-1-3-2 with ring shadowing Pirlo to clean up his messes.

White---Chanot----Callens----Mata (Please come back to us)

----------------Pirlo-----------------

Maxi-------Ring---------Herrera

Harrison----------Villa


Even as I look at it, I'm not sure that taking Wallace off for Pirlo is the best of ideas as Wallace adds another threat to help free up Villa and Harrison. But that question is really, is the additional threat that Wallace adds equivalent or greater than the value of Pirlo's ability to straight up bypass one or more lines of the opposition whenever he feels like it.

No. Last night was an aberration against a team that couldn't press or defend. I don't want Pirlo as the man in front of the back four when Ring has shown his chops to disrupt anything nearing them.

 

[Kjbert]

After seeing that stunning back heel no look pass to Villa last night on the part of Pirlo and the two or three absolute dimes he managed to drop, I'm back to trying to figure out if there is a way we can incorporate Pirlo's ghost into the squad.

I say the following with the full recognition that incorporating Pirlo severely disrupts the playstyle and tempo of the squad, and that we are probably a better team without Pirlo on the field, just because of how much his lack of mobility really distorts our team. But even still, if we can find some spark of the player that Pirlo was it might be worth it.

I'm thinking a floating 4-1-3-2 with ring shadowing Pirlo to clean up his messes.

White---Chanot----Callens----Mata (Please come back to us)

----------------Pirlo-----------------

Maxi-------Ring---------Herrera

Harrison----------Villa


Even as I look at it, I'm not sure that taking Wallace off for Pirlo is the best of ideas as Wallace adds another threat to help free up Villa and Harrison. But that question is really, is the additional threat that Wallace adds equivalent or greater than the value of Pirlo's ability to straight up bypass one or more lines of the opposition whenever he feels like it.

Does it work? Yes. You are right that that formation canwork.

My concern is that we are reorganizing our entire line-up when what we have is working.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

After seeing that stunning back heel no look pass to Villa last night on the part of Pirlo and the two or three absolute dimes he managed to drop, I'm back to trying to figure out if there is a way we can incorporate Pirlo's ghost into the squad.

I say the following with the full recognition that incorporating Pirlo severely disrupts the playstyle and tempo of the squad, and that we are probably a better team without Pirlo on the field, just because of how much his lack of mobility really distorts our team. But even still, if we can find some spark of the player that Pirlo was it might be worth it.

I'm thinking a floating 4-1-3-2 with ring shadowing Pirlo to clean up his messes.

White---Chanot----Callens----Mata (Please come back to us)

----------------Pirlo-----------------

Maxi-------Ring---------Herrera

Harrison----------Villa


Even as I look at it, I'm not sure that taking Wallace off for Pirlo is the best of ideas as Wallace adds another threat to help free up Villa and Harrison. But that question is really, is the additional threat that Wallace adds equivalent or greater than the value of Pirlo's ability to straight up bypass one or more lines of the opposition whenever he feels like it.

When you take off Wallace, you lose defensive cover that is at least as important to us as his offense. Wallace is a great balancing force for us.

From my memory, we've had good games without most of our players this year, except for Wallace and Villa. Could be wrong. But that's what I remember.

Certainly can't sit Wallace if you don't have Maxi.

Damn, I can't wait to have our best 11 - sans Matarrita, of course.

I think the Eastern playoffs this year are going to be absolutely can't miss TV.

I really noticed that the crowd seemed to have picked up even on a weeknight. We crescendo into the playoffs, and Yankee Stadium will be a veritable hornets' nest for opponents.

 

[sbrylski]

From my memory, we've had good games without most of our players this year, except for Wallace and Villa. Could be wrong. But that's what I remember.

Agreed. I would call Villa, Wallace, Ring, Herrera, and Chanot the real engines of our team. Obviously Harrison is becoming a great goal scorer and Maxi is a creative turnkey in the final third, but you can't bite without teeth.

 

[Ulrich]

Agreed. I would call Villa, Wallace, Ring, Herrera, and Chanot the real engines of our team. Obviously Harrison is becoming a great goal scorer and Maxi is a creative turnkey in the final third, but you can't bite without teeth.

Don't forget Sean Johnson. Many of our games might very well have turned out differently with Lurch unable to grab rebounds.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Agreed. I would call Villa, Wallace, Ring, Herrera, and Chanot the real engines of our team. Obviously Harrison is becoming a great goal scorer and Maxi is a creative turnkey in the final third, but you can't bite without teeth.

My thinking on Ring and Herrera is we would still be a playoff team with either of them sans the other. Essentially, they lost out on my "most critical players" list largely by both being great for us.

Maxi is a bit in that same boat.

Jack has been great, no doubt, and he's certainly worth more in the transfer market than Rodney. He'll likely even end up with more "points". But I think his role is more to make us a great MLS team, whereas Wallace is more critical to keeping us competitive even in the event we have all sorts of scrubs lined up elsewhere. As much as we hate watching our non-existent midfield when there are tons of subs, Villa and Wallace and 9 from MNU would get 45 points.

 

[sbrylski]

Fred "The Bus Driver" Brillant

90' Games
4/8 @DCU - Loss 1-2
5/18 @RSL - Loss 1-2

>10' Games
5/7 vATL - 12' played, 0 GA, win 3-1
6/1 vNER - 21' played, 1 GA, draw
7/5 @VAN - 37' played, 2 GA, lost by 1

When Brillant plays more than 10 minutes, we are 1-3-1. That's 4 points in five games. I don't know for sure if it's the system or the player, but Vieira needs to stop parking the bus with Brillant.

I'd like to see him add a fourth midfielder for defensive purposes rather than a third CB. Bring in Mikey to bunker and/or White at RB if Allen is starting. Brillant should be the emergency CB at best right now.

 

[mgarbowski]

Fred "The Bus Driver" Brillant

90' Games
4/8 @DCU - Loss 1-2
5/18 @RSL - Loss 1-2

>10' Games
5/7 vATL - 12' played, 0 GA, win 3-1
6/1 vNER - 21' played, 1 GA, draw
7/5 @VAN - 37' played, 2 GA, lost by 1

When Brillant plays more than 10 minutes, we are 1-3-1. That's 4 points in five games. I don't know for sure if it's the system or the player, but Vieira needs to stop parking the bus with Brillant.

I'd like to see him add a fourth midfielder for defensive purposes rather than a third CB. Bring in Mikey to bunker and/or White at RB if Allen is starting. Brillant should be the emergency CB at best right now.

I compared this to his record last year. He played 31 games, and 90 in every one. We gave up 55 goals in those games. That's 1.77 GA per 90 minutes.

This year using the stats you provided I get 2.52 GA per 90. Our defense overall was worse last year, and we had Saunders in goal, and he played in the 7-0 game, and I cannot believe Brillant is that much worse than he was last year playing with a better keeper and better midfield defense. I'm not saying he's good or anything. We never thought he was better than adequate last year, and that was mostly early on, IIRC. But I think the perception this year of utter craptitude and his 2017 GA record is a function of small sample size and the drop-off between other options and him this year compared to last.

 

[sbrylski]

I compared this to his record last year. He played 31 games, and 90 in every one. We gave up 55 goals in those games. That's 1.77 GA per 90 minutes.

This year using the stats you provided I get 2.52 GA per 90. Our defense overall was worse last year, and we had Saunders in goal, and he played in the 7-0 game, and I cannot believe Brillant is that much worse than he was last year playing with a better keeper and better midfield defense. I'm not saying he's good or anything. We never thought he was better than adequate last year, and that was mostly early on, IIRC. But I think the perception this year of utter craptitude and his 2017 GA record is a function of small sample size and the drop-off between other options and him this year compared to last.

Yeah, that's why I hedged my analysis with "I don't know for sure if it's the system or the player." Simple fact is our team plays best with possession and defending throughout the entire pitch. When we bring in a third CB, we give up both possession and the ability to high press with one fewer midfielder/forward roaming. The whole thing falls apart.

Better option would have been to drop McNamara for Lopez yesterday, and White for Allen. Shores up the backline and provides fresh legs in the midfield. Villa and Harrison remain in for counters. Our defensive shape remains the same. Everyone's duties are fairly consistent, yet we are reinforced defensively.

That's my higher level point.

 

[canchon]

I'd like to see him add a fourth midfielder for defensive purposes rather than a third CB.

He did. James Sands.

 

[sbrylski]

He did. James Sands.

?

52' Brillant for Herrera (down one MF, up one CB) *3 man-backline
64' Lopez for Allen (up one MF/FB?, down one FB) *???
74' Maxi for Pirlo (MF for MF) *??? extra attacker for counter

It was a mess.

 

[The Toe]

?

52' Brillant for Herrera (down one MF, up one CB) *3 man-backline
64' Lopez for Allen (up one MF/FB?, down one FB) *???
74' Maxi for Pirlo (MF for MF) *??? extra attacker for counter

It was a mess.

Would have liked to have seen:

52' Mikey for Herrera (like-for-like)
64' Lewis for Tmac (more danger on wing, where Vancouver is weak)
74' Maxi for Pirlo/Jack (Jack was lacking all game/Take Pirlo out to play the counter)

 

[mgarbowski]

Better option would have been to drop McNamara for Lopez yesterday, and White for Allen. Shores up the backline and provides fresh legs in the midfield. Villa and Harrison remain in for counters. Our defensive shape remains the same. Everyone's duties are fairly consistent, yet we are reinforced defensively.

That's another factor I didn't mention. When he subs on he usually is part of a change of shape and overall play style that is more PV's fault than his. Bottom line is I still cringe when he comes in and he has his own issues, but the team failures when he comes on are only part his fault. And I think we have to find a way to live with him this year and hope the club replaces him next. I think I would rather see him used occasionally starting to give someone else rest in short weeks, etc. than as a late sub.

 

[sbrylski]

That's another factor I didn't mention. When he subs on he usually is part of a change of shape and overall play style that is more PV's fault than his. Bottom line is I still cringe when he comes in and he has his own issues, but the team failures when he comes on are only part his fault. And I think we have to find a way to live with him this year and hope the club replaces him next. I think I would rather see him used occasionally starting to give someone else rest in short weeks, etc. than as a late sub.

Agreed. He's best as a #3 CB and should either start there or sub like-for-like. Stop with the formation changes when we are dominating games.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I can see by the options being put forth that Vieira really didn't have great options last night for substitutions. While he may or maynot have fucked up decision making, do we really think that Mikey Lopez is the lock down option that would have guaranteed a victory? For me the fault lies in the management of the team leaving Vieira with no options through this dearth of injuries. We have been without 2 of our top 4 midfield options for most of the year, would it kill them to pick up a guy that could possibly be better than the adult that still goes by Mikey?

Ben sweat has been more than we could have asked for in a long term sub, but what if he gets hurt or tired like he seemed last night. The guy went from never playing consistently to consistently playing 90. He's a young guy. Jack Harrison tired at the end of last year too. I thought Sweat was great in the first half. I try to see everyone's hat efor the guy, but I don't see it. Still not better than Mata, but more than you can ask for in a backup.

 

[sbrylski]

I can see by the options being put forth that Vieira really didn't have great options last night for substitutions. While he may or maynot have fucked up decision making, do we really think that Mikey Lopez is the lock down option that would have guaranteed a victory? For me the fault lies in the management of the team leaving Vieira with no options through this dearth of injuries. We have been without 2 of our top 4 midfield options for most of the year, would it kill them to pick up a guy that could possibly be better than the adult that still goes by Mikey?

Ben sweat has been more than we could have asked for in a long term sub, but what if he gets hurt or tired like he seemed last night. The guy went from never playing consistently to consistently playing 90. He's a young guy. Jack Harrison tired at the end of last year too. I thought Sweat was great in the first half. I try to see everyone's hat efor the guy, but I don't see it. Still not better than Mata, but more than you can ask for in a backup.

Transfer window opens July 10. Let's see if they are of the same mind as you.

 

[canchon]

Would have liked to have seen:

52' Mikey for Herrera (like-for-like)
64' Lewis for Tmac (more danger on wing, where Vancouver is weak)
74' Maxi for Pirlo/Jack (Jack was lacking all game/Take Pirlo out to play the counter)

I'm with you, only would have swapped Maxi in at 64 and Lewis at 74. Give Maxi more time in the MF.

I still will never forget the game against the Revs where Mikey Lopez was dropping in the middle in front of the CBs to receive the ball to play out of the back and the CBs ignored him and passed up the wings. That's the quality we get from Lopez.

 

[Ulrich]

I'm with you, only would have swapped Maxi in at 64 and Lewis at 74. Give Maxi more time in the MF.

I still will never forget the game against the Revs where Mikey Lopez was dropping in the middle in front of the CBs to receive the ball to play out of the back and the CBs ignored him and passed up the wings. That's the quality we get from Lopez.

It amazes me that chasing a game, we don't play the lone forward/wing on the bench.

Sub #1: Blew the sub on a defender rather than a MF like4like. Either Lopez or Awuah could have come on. Or even Maxi if PV really felt his calf was healed. Three possible options.

Sub #2: so after making a D<>M sub PV now makes a M<>D sub. Being down 2-1, this was when either a M or F sub was mandatory. PV went 3 in the back for a bit, so at worst that M would provide some defensive cover if we weren't interested in the best defense is a possession offense tactic that worked so well the first half. At the very least, this was the time for Maxi to come on board.

Sub #3: as others have mentioned, TMac was gassed at the end and having only a single attacker on the bench, this was the last opportunity to get those skills on the field. Used on Maxi because he bring more than Lewis, but it never should have been an either/or but rather a 'both'.

If PV was truly hellbent on parking the bus, then he should have had at least the most skillful midfielders on the pitch to clog the middle. All three subs could have been: Lopez, Maxi, Awuah or Maxi, Lewis, Awuah or Lopez, Maxi, Lewis or any two plus Maxi. Just clog the middle and counter with speed. Last night felt like I was watching the USMNT sub players on - every sub ends with a formation change with guys sliding around to new roles.....

 

[SoupInNYC]

I will point you guys to my post in the Vancouver post game match thread. But when Brillant has come on as a defensive stopper in the last 10 minutes, things have been fine. Otherwise, his performances:

@DCU played 90 in a formation as a RCB and in the first time we ever played this formation. I won't hold that on him, but rather PV

@RSL played 90 with a midfield/forward combo that was completely run over

@NJ Cup Match played 90 and did fine. Did have the turnover that ultimately led to the goal, but had no legitimate midfield options to play to.

home against NER for 20+ minutes, the midfield was just conceded and was way too long to do so. This also applies for Vancouver IMO.

Brillant definitely has his faults, and is most definitely overpaid at his current salary. But I'm getting a bit tired of the complete hate of him. Sure we should go get someone better, but I'm not sure we have that option now mid season. And nobody else on our current roster is a better option.

For those games where Brillant has been in and we've underperformed, I put that more on PV than on Fred