2017 Season Tactics Thread

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I am so tired of losing one important game after another while emphasizing a primary philosophy that prioritizes aesthetics. I don't want to hear one more quote from Vieira, Soriano, Reyna, or anyone connected to this team that talks about beautiful football or beautiful soccer until we win at least one damn elimination match. You want to prove you can win beautiful, then win just even one damn elimination game first. I'm not even demanding a championship. Hell, score a damn goal. Until then shut up about beautiful, or talk like this guy:

"Everyone said [our opponent] played beautiful football and that the beauty of the game matters and bla, bla, bla. I told my players that, for me, beautiful is not giving our opponents what they want. I even joked with [one], 'With your feet, we're for sure not playing from the back."
"That's where we won the game. During the initial stage of build-up we never played from our center-backs to our midfielders, because they are great at recovering possession by pressing high. ... If the ball isn't there, what are they going to press?"

For me, we can dominate the league when we play our possession, play from the back game. And in a parity league, you need to dominate to guarantee success. Being 10% better than your opponents gets lost in the randomness that is soccer. You need to be 50% better to consistently win despite the randomness of the game.

The problem in our elimination games is there is no Plan B. our plan A is great, but you need the top XI to be able to play it. In this particular game, we didn't have the guys to play it, but they stuck with it.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I am so tired of losing one important game after another while emphasizing a primary philosophy that prioritizes aesthetics. I don't want to hear one more quote from Vieira, Soriano, Reyna, or anyone connected to this team that talks about beautiful football or beautiful soccer until we win at least one damn elimination match. You want to prove you can win beautiful, then win just even one damn elimination game first. I'm not even demanding a championship. Hell, score a damn goal. Until then shut up about beautiful, or talk like this guy:

"Everyone said [our opponent] played beautiful football and that the beauty of the game matters and bla, bla, bla. I told my players that, for me, beautiful is not giving our opponents what they want. I even joked with [one], 'With your feet, we're for sure not playing from the back."
"That's where we won the game. During the initial stage of build-up we never played from our center-backs to our midfielders, because they are great at recovering possession by pressing high. ... If the ball isn't there, what are they going to press?"

Agree completely. I'm really concerned about how dogmatic we and CFG seem to be. To me, beauty is not a standard, it's finding a way to be effective within an ever-evolving set of circumstances. The Vieira / CFG approach seems to be to optimize for the general case over large samples. Elimination matches are the very opposite of this and therefore the Achilles heel of this approach.

 

[Ulrich]

Agree completely. I'm really concerned about how dogmatic we and CFG seem to be. To me, beauty is not a standard, it's finding a way to be effective within an ever-evolving set of circumstances. The Vieira / CFG approach seems to be to optimize for the general case over large samples. Elimination matches are the very opposite of this and therefore the Achilles heel of this approach.

I want to know when CFG & PV will learn that WINNING is beautiful and Losing is ugly. They seem to think the means justifies the end (no matter what), but they're wrong and always will be wrong. The end justifies the means. Nobody will bitch about not stringing passes together if they can walk away from a game happily enjoying a win, but they sure as hell will wonder what the point is about playing out of the back to a midfield that is there in name only when coupled with a loss. If we don't have our first 11 to play Plan A, we better focus on Plan B with a Plan C backup.

now part of that was probably that we didn't expect to lose Maxi and didn't have another 1-to-1 sub for him, but that's the mark of a good coach, to either have every situation game-planned, or to be able to think quickly and make a rational decision (Stertzer would never be a sub for Maxi, probably for Lopez, but not the #10). That injury begged for a formation change (442), shuffling of positions and immediate personnel changes (all three subs) - play Villa off a target forward (Okoli), Harrison and Lewis in MF with Ring and either Gomez (speed) or Allen (toughness) while taking out TMac and Lopez. Hell, the Ref was ready to card Felipe and Allen could have pushed him over the edge, but I'd have preferred the extra speed from Gomez for a counter (all four midfielders would have been burners).

 

[Christopher Jee]

I want to know when CFG & PV will learn that WINNING is beautiful and Losing is ugly. They seem to think the means justifies the end (no matter what), but they're wrong and always will be wrong. The end justifies the means. Nobody will bitch about not stringing passes together if they can walk away from a game happily enjoying a win, but they sure as hell will wonder what the point is about playing out of the back to a midfield that is there in name only when coupled with a loss. If we don't have our first 11 to play Plan A, we better focus on Plan B with a Plan C backup.

now part of that was probably that we didn't expect to lose Maxi and didn't have another 1-to-1 sub for him, but that's the mark of a good coach, to either have every situation game-planned, or to be able to think quickly and make a rational decision (Stertzer would never be a sub for Maxi, probably for Lopez, but not the #10). That injury begged for a formation change (442), shuffling of positions and immediate personnel changes (all three subs) - play Villa off a target forward (Okoli), Harrison and Lewis in MF with Ring and either Gomez (speed) or Allen (toughness) while taking out TMac and Lopez. Hell, the Ref was ready to card Felipe and Allen could have pushed him over the edge, but I'd have preferred the extra speed from Gomez for a counter (all four midfielders would have been burners).

Agree.

To be fair, I think that the 3-3-4 / 3-5-2 we moved to at the end was the right move but too little and too late. Lewis for Maxi at 45' would have been better. And if that didn't get us passage through midfield, maybe the 3-3-4 at the 65' would have been the right call.

The fact that Vieira yanked Stertzer is a sign that he is willing to fix mistakes, but whether that willingness becomes a permanent adaptation or not is crucial for our future success.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Agree.

To be fair, I think that the 3-3-4 / 3-5-2 we moved to at the end was the right move but too little and too late. Lewis for Maxi at 45' would have been better. And if that didn't get us passage through midfield, maybe the 3-3-4 at the 65' would have been the right call.

The fact that Vieira yanked Stertzer is a sign that he is willing to fix mistakes, but whether that willingness becomes a permanent adaptation or not is crucial for our future success.

The main issue after we switched to the 3-3-4 was that Okoli couldn't win anything.

 

[Ulrich]

The main issue after we switched to the 3-3-4 was that Okoli couldn't win anything.

No doubt! But it is harder to win route-1 clearances from CBs than it is to contest for attacking crosses. All the "service" he was getting was from our CBs trying to clear our defensive half, and the RB's CBs will always have the advantage facing the ball.

 

[Christopher Jee]

No doubt! But it is harder to win route-1 clearances from CBs than it is to contest for attacking crosses. All the "service" he was getting was from our CBs trying to clear our defensive half, and the RB's CBs will always have the advantage facing the ball.

Totes, and also those clearances don't give midfield enough time to get up the field and make supporting runs, so even if he can get on the end of the ball it's hard for him to do anything with it.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It sure didn't look to me like we were playing out of the back in the 2nd half. We seemed to be booting the ball downfield to nobody.

 

[Kjbert]

PV has shown a willingness to boot the ball down field if it isn't 5'7" David Villa on the other side of the kick

 

[mgarbowski]

It sure didn't look to me like we were playing out of the back in the 2nd half. We seemed to be booting the ball downfield to nobody.

PV has shown a willingness to boot the ball down field if it isn't 5'7" David Villa on the other side of the kick

Despite my rant, I agree that PV has shown more flexibility -- on certain issues at least -- than I think his reputation covers, and this is one of them.

 

[Kjbert]

Despite my rant, I agree that PV has shown more flexibility -- on certain issues at least -- than I think his reputation covers, and this is one of them.

In fairness, it's not that he likes doing it. It also could just be that Sean Johnson makes his own decision and it pisses PV off. We could be giving PV too much credit.

 

[Ulrich]

In fairness, it's not that he likes doing it. It also could just be that Sean Johnson makes his own decision and it pisses PV off. We could be giving PV too much credit.

Callens seems to have a green light to do it if he gets in trouble.

 

[Christopher Jee]

PV has shown a willingness to boot the ball down field if it isn't 5'7" David Villa on the other side of the kick

Word. We could def be doing a better job of it though. I didn't get the sense last night that it was intentional or well-drilled.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Despite my rant, I agree that PV has shown more flexibility -- on certain issues at least -- than I think his reputation covers, and this is one of them.

I think this is true. I think Coach V understands the game theory behind playing out of the back, which dictates that you have to at least occasionally boot the ball middle and long distances to keep defenses honest.

Against the Red Fools, however, what I saw in the 2nd half was us consistently booting the ball long because the guys that were playing had no confidence they could complete passes against that press. Maybe that's true of the guys we had on the field. New Jersey took us completely out of our game, and it is why we couldn't sniff the ball for a good portion of the 2nd half.

 

[Kjbert]

Fantastic point by Gotham Gator - booting the ball long because you're scared of the ball is not a good tactic. White, Lopez, McNamara, Callens - all guilty of this

 

[Ulrich]

Fantastic point by Gotham Gator - booting the ball long because you're scared of the ball is not a good tactic. White, Lopez, McNamara, Callens - all guilty of this

I don't think Callens is ever scared to have the ball. First he looks to pass short. Second he dribbles through to the midfield and then passes. Third is when he has no choice because of pressure and he boots it upfield.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It was partly being scared to have it, but also because there were no outlets nearby.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Lewis for Maxi at 45' would have been better.

That's what some of us were saying in the shout box. On BCR, TIL that Lewis was initially going to come on. Then PV switched it last minute.

That's weird. I'd love to know that story.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I don't think Callens is ever scared to have the ball. First he looks to pass short. Second he dribbles through to the midfield and then passes. Third is when he has no choice because of pressure and he boots it upfield.

And some folks give him a hard time. 9/10 times he loses it, it's because he has has been blatantly fouled.

 

[SoupInNYC]

That's what some of us were saying in the shout box. On BCR, TIL that Lewis was initially going to come on. Then PV switched it last minute.

That's weird. I'd love to know that story.

I was sitting to the left of our bench for this match. As soon as Maxi signaled for a sub, PV yelled for JLew to start getting ready. One of the assistants started talking in his ear, presumably giving instructions. It seemed like the sub was actually going to come before the end of the half, was surprised it didn't happen then.

Went in at half to grab another beer (they had Blue Point toasted lager in the Audi Club which was a nice surprise) and didn't make it out for the beginning of the half as bathroom/bar lines were a bit clogged. Was completely surprised that Stertzer was out there.