Screenshot from Christian Araos sent to me just now:
A Letter to Patricof
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Nick Chavez
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Glad that Christian Araos finally apologized and made a statement, hopefully repairing NYCFC fans' reputation a bit, though I doubt that will spread in certain circles (read: RBNJ, Cosmos, anti-NYCFC nationally) as widely as his original, irresponsible tweet did.
And too bad it took him so long to do it. I respect and appreciate his apologizing publicly, but I don't respect that it likely took some serious arm-twisting and pressure from his boss and not his own f***ing conscience/sense of decency to do it in the first place. Whatever, at least it's out there.
And props to you, Rox, for having some influence in him finally doing it yourself. Keep up the good work in general, Sir, I know it can be a thankless job sometimes helping run the Third Rail.
I debated whether I should respond to this and, if so, how I should respond.
I just have to keep it "a buck" here:
This is trash. Just as Christian's tweets and responses that lead to this point were trash. The whole speculation about "likely" arm-twisting from his superior at work and all that is unnecessary. I spoke to Christian at approximately 6 pm for roughly 20 minutes. At 6:30 pm he had work to do that took him a bit of time. Before 7:30 I had the message in my inbox. I don't see how or why you needed to add in speculation that has nothing to do with what actually happened. Is that not what we were just chastising him for?
He made a mistake. We talked through it as two men, privately, and found common ground. That's it.
Thank you for the kind words though. I appreciate it.
I wonder if we make some fake city government papers for Etihad Island and post them on r/NYCFC if he'll pick them up.
Nick Chavez
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Because Araos posted that original tweet, what, on Sunday/Monday? Almost immediately afterwards it was confirmed as false information by all surrounding NYCFC fans, as well as the original poster on Reddit who admitted in the thread (that Araos shared) that he was wrong and apologized.
Then several NYCFC fans told him that OP retracted/apologized, and Araos basically ignored them and didn't tweet any real retraction/apology and STILL allowed his tweets (that were retweeted and even made a story out of by Metro Soccer Nation) to stand, circulating on the internet for days.
It then required SEVERAL NYCFC fans to hound him for at least 2 days for a retraction/apology, and he continued to completely ignore them, and it took for them to reach out with their dissatisfaction to his editor Dave Martinez (not speculation, they said it on this forum), and then for YOU to talk to him, for Araos to finally come to the "noble" realization that now was the time for him to tweet a f***ing retraction/apology tonight.
Like I said, I'm glad he finally retracted his statement/apologized for the sake of the reputation of NYCFC fans, but I don't believe for one solitary second that he would've done it because his own conscience brought him to it. It doesn't take several days for you to realize, "wow, I should apologize for spreading a false rumor making NYCFC fans look like Nazis and retract that statement."
All evidence tells me that he did it for selfish reasons, not to protect the reputation of NYCFC fans, which didn't seem to be of much concern to him at all these last few days.
So, that's exactly what happened, facts only. That's my issue, and I stand by it. But, I'm glad it's resolved, I accept it and I'm over it.
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Araos has the best access to NYCFC but he can't hide his bias against the club. He only wrote the retraction from pressure not because he had a self reflection on his wrong doings. Rox I appreciate you speaking to him as always you're doing what's best for the club and it's fans. I appreciate the shit out of you man.
PS -
Nick Chavez youre an embarrassment to the club and its fans. Go have a premonition on what I really think of you.
PS -
Nick Chavez youre an embarrassment to the club and its fans. Go have a premonition on what I really think of you.Thanks, sir. I'm humbled.
Glad you were able to connect with him and also appreciate what he did to rectify the situation. Thanks
Glad you were able to talk with him as well Rox, thanks for taking that initiative as well as all the other hard work you do for the Third Rail. I know it is often quite underappreciated, but I really do appreciate the amount of work you put into this.
The apology Christian put out works. It doesn't really make me gain more respect for him though. I think a lot of the points
Nick Chavez points out above carry some weight. Again, this isn't some random guy that blogs to himself. He is a NYCFC writer for one of the top soccer sites in the city and I really think we deserve better. I hope Christian has learned a valuable lesson here in regards to journalism and the impact that writing a story can have, especially when not all of the facts are lined up (and in this case, there were never any facts and blaring holes in the rumor that was started that I think most high school newspaper writers would not feel comfortable reporting on.)
I really hope Christian puts out quality work here going forward, but its honestly going to be quite a while before I can take anything he writes or tweets with any kind of weight.
The apology Christian put out works. It doesn't really make me gain more respect for him though. I think a lot of the points
Nick Chavez points out above carry some weight. Again, this isn't some random guy that blogs to himself. He is a NYCFC writer for one of the top soccer sites in the city and I really think we deserve better. I hope Christian has learned a valuable lesson here in regards to journalism and the impact that writing a story can have, especially when not all of the facts are lined up (and in this case, there were never any facts and blaring holes in the rumor that was started that I think most high school newspaper writers would not feel comfortable reporting on.)I really hope Christian puts out quality work here going forward, but its honestly going to be quite a while before I can take anything he writes or tweets with any kind of weight.
Well, therein lies the problem. Bloggers push out (as fast as they can) anything that arises in connection to a topic while adding their own personal slant/opinion. An ethical journalist not only looks for confirmation from min 2 sources but also edits the information to clear out clutter, innuendo, and snark.Glad you were able to talk with him as well Rox, thanks for taking that initiative as well as all the other hard work you do for the Third Rail. I know it is often quite underappreciated, but I really do appreciate the amount of work you put into this.
The apology Christian put out works. It doesn't really make me gain more respect for him though. I think a lot of the points
I really hope Christian puts out quality work here going forward, but its honestly going to be quite a while before I can take anything he writes or tweets with any kind of weight.
I was still a little disappointed by what he wrote. I appreciate the apology, but it was long and really avoided the big thing that is needed. A short, definitive statement that the Nazi flag rumor was false. Why can't he just tweet something like the below.
Last weekend, I tweeted about a rumor that NYCFC supporters had brought a Nazi flag to the game. I want to make clear that those rumors were completely FALSE.
Last weekend, I tweeted about a rumor that NYCFC supporters had brought a Nazi flag to the game. I want to make clear that those rumors were completely FALSE.
And looking at his Twitter timeline, the only tweet that was deleted was the "Flag Explained" tweet. These two still exist.....
I appreciate that shout out, but I'm not even on the level of being "press" just yet. Maybe after Friday though.EDIT: @NYCFCNation andNYCFCfan totally slipped my mind, my bad. They're usually way ahead of anyone anyways on breaking stories.
And I'm PMing
FootyLovin my name to add to the list too.
I think I'm on board with an assortment of thoughts here. As always, thanks
R
roxfontaine for always looking out for the team and its supporters. I also agree with some of
Nick Chavez 's and others' points that an apology is great, but the apology doesn't make me feel any better about Christian's judgment or trustworthiness. Let's just hope he doesn't fuck up again in a way which adversely affects the team and/or its supporters.
And to get this thread back on original topic,
Nick Chavez, as a man with his finger on the pulse, I would love your thoughts on the continuing puto chants, efforts to stop them, and those who refuse to comply. Have you thought about weighing in publicly given that you reach many of the supporters (including possibly the violators) directly?
Nick Chavez 's and others' points that an apology is great, but the apology doesn't make me feel any better about Christian's judgment or trustworthiness. Let's just hope he doesn't fuck up again in a way which adversely affects the team and/or its supporters.And to get this thread back on original topic,
Nick Chavez, as a man with his finger on the pulse, I would love your thoughts on the continuing puto chants, efforts to stop them, and those who refuse to comply. Have you thought about weighing in publicly given that you reach many of the supporters (including possibly the violators) directly?
Nick Chavez
Registered
I appreciate that shout out, but I'm not even on the level of being "press" just yet. Maybe after Friday though.
And I'm PMing
I say you are for sure at that level, if not officially. Honestly some of the NYCFC fans definitely do better work then some of the working press journalists by trade, who I often feel have crap takes that are just looking to criticize for the sake of criticizing without knowing the full story/context. I see a lot outsider journalists making claims without knowing the full background/history of what's going on, or just want a "hot take" for clicks. Short-sighted narratives like "Yankee Stadium is killing NYCFC" and "Shouldn't have we waited until NYCFC had it's own stadium before we started the club" (by Leander Schaerlaeckens) comes to mind. A lot of my pieces combat lazy, short-sighted takes like that.
Mike Anderer of BlueCityRadio, for example, has one of the sharpest journalistic minds I've seen in the entire press room asking really great questions, even though he's very humble about it and considers himself a fan and not an actual journalist. With the work he does and the importance of his podcast, I'd say he's a (broadcast/podcast) journalist/analyst in all but name.
And the work you do
NYCFCfan and with @NYCFCNation has been outstanding since the beginning, and there's a reason why you're so well-followed. Again, I'd say you guys do a better job than most journalists in breaking news, putting out important reports based on what you know and good opinion pieces.Definitely better than I have done lately admittedly, as I haven't been writing much lately due to transitioning personally/professionally, including my move to NYC (finally) by the end of the month. But, once I'm more settled with all of that, I plan to get more on top of that. You guys gotta remember, most of us in the MLS press box don't get paid, or at least certainly can't live off it. So, most of us have other unrelated 9-5 jobs, and social lives/projects we have to juggle. It's a labor of love, for sure. I'm also looking into getting into the podcast game as soon as I can. I hope to hear you're getting press access soon, Chris! We'll catch some games together!
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Great thoughtAnd to get this thread back on original topic,
JayH , it could only help clean some of this up in the supporters section.
Nick Chavez , what are your thoughts?
Nick Chavez
Registered
And to get this thread back on original topic,
Great thought
My thoughts on the "puto" chants are a bit more nuanced than most. My first reaction to the controversy in general was, well, it's a Mexican thing (almost a tradition now) that they do, and I don't think Americans are going to be able to make them stop with social media pressure, shaming or whatever. In fact, the more people complain about it, the more they're likely to do it, and with more enthusiasm since they may have caught wind that it winds a lot of Americans up.
Personally, I also don't find it as offensive as some because I look at the intention, and I know it's not being used to be "homophobic" or hateful/offensive towards gays. I don't think it's ever used with that intention in stadiums. It's used to as like a big "F*** YOU!" to the goalkeeper and other team. I like to look at intention a lot in these situations. It's like, we probably all use the word "bastard" when we're pissed or something... we don't mean to upset/offend/or make any judgments of people who are born out of wed-lock when we do it. To me, it's analogous.
But anyways, I guess the most important thing to consider is if gay people themselves are feeling hurt, unwelcomed, or offended by the "puto" chants. If they are, then the fans probably shouldn't be using it. With that consideration, I think something different should be used. The Bronx FSC's "aaaaah aaaaaah!" chant is funny and original, and it breaks up the "PUTO" chant pretty well so it's not mistaken. Basically, you gotta find a good replacement that everyone can agree on.
All of that said, though, people who want to troll or don't like being told what to do will probably continue to use the puto chant, and the more they see people getting riled up about it, getting their jimmies rustled or whatever, the more they're going to do it and get joy out of doing it. To piss those people off that they feel are trying to pontificate towards them.
It's difficult to control, but I'd say, come up with a better alternative, get enough people in the supporter section behind it, and you'll probably see the "puto" chant overwhelmed and, eventually, disappear. I hope I answered your questions, let me know if you have any more!
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Nick Chavez, we don't know each other, and I apologize for beginning with a critique, but I find your response to the P*to chant underwhelming. This doesn't hold. If the end of the chant was the n-word, but it wasn't intended to be hateful towards blacks, no one would care about intentions. This shouldn't be different.
You are basically washing your hands of it and saying it's up to the supporters. But you are a vocal, known member of the community.
I'll give this to Araos, if he thought there was a Nazi flag in the SS, the right thing to do is to speak out against it. You have a platform and a voice that matters to some. Maybe you're right and trolls are gonna troll. But some people do listen to you. And to shrug your shoulders and say "not my problem" doesn't impress me.
If you were anyone else, I might not write this. But you have been extremely outspoken on this forum at various times critiquing the judgement and ethics of others covering NYCFC. Yet I see you setting a pretty low standard here on this issue.
This doesn't hold. If the end of the chant was the n-word, but it wasn't intended to be hateful towards blacks, no one would care about intentions. This shouldn't be different.
You are basically washing your hands of it and saying it's up to the supporters. But you are a vocal, known member of the community.
I'll give this to Araos, if he thought there was a Nazi flag in the SS, the right thing to do is to speak out against it. You have a platform and a voice that matters to some. Maybe you're right and trolls are gonna troll. But some people do listen to you. And to shrug your shoulders and say "not my problem" doesn't impress me.
If you were anyone else, I might not write this. But you have been extremely outspoken on this forum at various times critiquing the judgement and ethics of others covering NYCFC. Yet I see you setting a pretty low standard here on this issue.
I think his third paragraph comes around to your position pretty clearly. I think he just has a more nuanced approach that tries to be a little more understanding of the other side.
I'm not certain I follow this particular line of thinking around the intentions of using the word. The word itself doesn't mean "F*** You", so why does it have that particular connotation when its being used in this regard?" It is a homophobic slur, so is it a "F*** You" because in essence, it being a homophobic slur is derogatory? Whether or not the intention is to be hateful towards the gay community?
I look at it this way, back when I was in high school, I and many others quite often used the term f*ggot when messing around with friends. In essence, it was a "f*** you" or a "you're an asshole", etc. etc. There was no connotation (at least speaking for myself when I used to use it) of it being hateful towards the gay community. However, it was an extremely disrespectful homophobic slur that even though it wasn't being used as such, still had that same impact. However, even though it was used quite often, you never heard 60,000 people chant out "f*ggot" as an NFL kicker kicks off.
I know many people in the supporters section know this and choose to ignore it. In fact, the several people I confronted in the supporters section about it had no response. Several actually didn't really know what it meant and had joined in with others. But I remember two in specific that kept on repeating "Everyone has their own opinion". I would follow up with "Well whats your opinion?" and got the same response "Everyone has their own opinion." I have yet to hear a reasonable answer as to why that chant should be yelled.
I do also understand that some people get caught up in it and join in because others are doing it. I think those are the ones that are most important to get through to because I do think that is a large group of people. Additionally, I think others may just be somewhat immature and not really understand the impact that using a term such as that does (like me in high school in my example above). Its important to also get through to those individuals so they understand the impact that this has.
Ultimately, what I ask people when I hear them chant it, is would they say the exact same thing in front of their gay friends. Or would they say the equivalent of it in English in front of their gay friends.
Nick you do bring up some good points about fighting against it will make people want to do it more. We've already seen the facebook group name change and now apparently you can buy t-shirts with "p*to" on it. However, that doesn't mean we should sit by and accept it. And I think you have a great opportunity with your outreach to help on this.
Alternative chants to yell would be fantastic, as to not only drown out those that want to continue yelling disrespectful and oppressive slurs. But it also has the opportunity to create something unique and New York. One option I was thinking about this morning is what if we had the built up before the kick, and then everyone at once chanted "NNNNNNNN YYYYYYYY CCCCCCCCCC". Somewhat similar to what the Jets fans do, but without the repeating and whatnot so its not too close (and Giants fans may feel ok joining in too, haha).
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