Being a "Supporter" Means ...

[Midas Mulligan]

 

[rangersnycfc]

I could understand the anger and embrassment to a point. But my God it's the second year of a team, it takes several years to build up a viable team. Patience is tough, I feel bad for anyone who paid a ticket to go to the game and saw this. Derby loss is always tough but once they figure what to do with this team its gonna be even that more sweet down the line. Great times and bad times all come with being a football supporter.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I could understand the anger and embrassment to a point. But my God it's the second year of a team, it takes several years to build up a viable team. Patience is tough, I feel bad for anyone who paid a ticket to go to the game and saw this. Derby loss is always tough but once they figure what to do with this team its gonna be even that more sweet down the line. Great times and bad times all come with being a football supporter.

I don't expect this team to win trophies this year. I think most people here understand the process this team is undergoing. But I do expect them to do better than tied for the worst loss in the history of MLS. There's a clear difference there. Had they lost 4-2, even 4-1, it's a completely different crowd. For me, it's not the score but the way they played. I don't care if they lost every game, as long as they play the right way. They did not play the right way yesterday.

 

[ldent42]

So, here's the thing - we were shit. If people chant it, whatever. I wouldn't.

I'm probably the most critical person here. I mostly do it without profanity (profanity isn't part of my criticism, it just slips in as part of my vocab)

No problem with booing Lampard, of course. And I'll probably shout Saunders that he sucks every home match. He does. If he gets paid for a job he isn't qualified to do, he should take the abuse as a value add reason he's still in the squad.

The whole team was an embarrassment. The manager looked lost. Vitriolic responses are appropriate to me. If we sit up there grinning and clapping like a damn monkey, there is nothing that suggests to me that CFG wouldn't take that as approval of the job they are doing.

The FO needs to be made aware of how damn stupid they are. They sure as hell don't listen elsewhere, so we have to make our points when we can.

I left the match, went and drank beers and hung out with my friends, including a couple of Jersey reds. I wasn't mad at them or particularly bothered. The players weren't. Manager wasn't. Why would I have my evening ruined? But here on the forum or in the stadium, I'm going to let fly the vitriol.

Here's the thing though. Those are not the only two options as far as responses go. It's been said a few times already, you don't need to be cheering and grinning and clapping when we are losing and playing like shit. This ain't Stepford Supporters. But you also don't have to be shouting abuse at the players. Those are not the only two possible reactions, and I think it's disingenuous to imply that if you're upset then the team deserves vitriolic responses during gameplay, and if you don't give them that then you are a wind up monkey toy - there is a middle ground between those two extremes, as has already been mentioned.

I do respect the opinion that shouting at players who are pissing you off is a valid response. I mean my seats were near the corner last season and I did quite a bit of unwarranted shouting at opposing team members when they took corner kicks.

Lastly, one thing to remember is that there was a seemingly excessive/outsized response to that match - but it was an extreme fucking match to say the least. It was a spectacular shitshow of epic proportions, so one should expect a proportionate response. If it becomes a habit to throw balls back at players or to boo Lampard every time he takes the pitch, or for the bleachers to clear out whenever we're losing, then I'd say we have a problem with our supporter culture/behavior

 

[TabascoDiva]

"Supporter" (or "fan") means different things to different people. No one right answer. I get that.

It's easy to cheer your team when they are winning. The challenge of being a supporter is lifting your team up when they are down.

I expect to get eviscerated for this. (In my house there is a running joke of saying, "Kick him because he's different.") But I also wanted to have my say on an alternate way of being a supporter. Have at it my friends ...

On the contrary I defend and agree with you 100%. Last night, I dreaded coming to the forum, feeling that I would be the odd one. Feeling sad, mad and shocked at the same time and did not wanted to read all the negativity every time our team looses.
I seat at the Delta area and right across from there see Batters Eyes area and was shocked that it was almost empty
by around the 60th minutes.
YES it was a day not worth remembering , YES it was dreadful , YES it was disheartening but when we love someone like my mom would say " En las buenas y en las malas estamos juntos" We are together in thick and thin (or whatever the English translation may be, lol)

I am just a lover of the beautiful game, and I love my team and loving someone can cause heartache , when things go bad for the loved one. Well it was a heartache for me to see my fledgling team, struggling but what hurt most was seeing "Fans " walking out on them.

What irked me was loosing to our next door neighbors , but hey there will be more games and hopefully our generation will leave a legacy of new blood of loyal fans to cheer them on when we are no longer here to chant them on.

I answered FootyLovin
I didn't mention Disney World in my prior answer by accident. That place is the "Happiest Place On Earth" and is Where Dreams Come True. The employees are called cast members and tell you to "have a magical day" at the end of many interactions. It's a show, and it's a something of a sham but it's not a fraud. Everyone except for the truly little ones understand what is going on. I embrace it because my family and I enjoy it. But I'm not fooled by it. I just willingly suspend the disbelief enough to get my enjoyment from it while paying for the privilege. Similarly, the club/supporter paradigm is something we as fans want to embrace and act as if it is true and real. There is no harm in that, but I never forget that it is a show. Just like Disney World. The ownership, league, and players are united and aligned 100% in trying to maximize revenue from me, and the paradigm is one of their biggest tools in their kit. This is now true in every major sports league.
I pay my money. I pretend my passion makes me part of a collective enterprise. But this is not my family, my church, my city or my country. It's a business, and I'm a paying customer.

I agree with you too on this but at some point draw the line as a paying customer. I do- by not buying the new jerseys and other sport paraphernalia that every season the league/ team owners wants us to buy. Honestly I rarely get to show off my jersey with the name of my favorite player because the weather has not been nice. I detest having ETIHAD as the biggest letters in front of my chest. As a lone dissatisfied customer I have no power or little financial weight but my personal my satisfaction is that I don't spend all my hard earned pennies on a sham.


The last comment on the game, It was an absurd substitution the Pirlo -Lampard . I hold coach Viera responsible. WHY put a player that has not given anything to the team, to the fans or effort on the game for almost 2 seasons?

 

[Midas Mulligan]

TabascoDiva the BES is mostly empty in the first minute, too. I can confirm that everyone up there from this forum stayed to the end. But I wouldn't have a problem with anyone leaving. I just didn't have anywhere else to be.

 

[FootyLovin]

- Criticism is always good but the method of doing so is vastly important. Take your anger out on here or in emails to the front office.

This.

If we sit up there grinning and clapping like a damn monkey, there is nothing that suggests to me that CFG wouldn't take that as approval of the job they are doing.

The FO needs to be made aware of how damn stupid they are. They sure as hell don't listen elsewhere, so we have to make our points when we can.

Not this. This is kicking your dog because you're angry at your boss. When you come back to work the next day, your boss feels none of the kick. The players are the ones who feel the abuse on the field. CFG feels it when they are hit in the wallet. As TabascoDiva put it, if this is what you want, don't buy the merch. Have at CFG on Twitter. But I think booing the players is misdirected anger.

i have the right as an individual to boo andget tight.

You have every legal right up to what YS security allows. And as has already been reported, multiple members of this forum crossed that line. I don't cede that you have ever moral right or that these actions produce the affect you desire.

I do expect them to do better than tied for the worst loss in the history of MLS

I think they have. They've given us first place last week. Second place this week - week 13. In our second year of existence that's more than is reasonable to expect IMO.

For me, it's not the score but the way they played. I don't care if they lost every game, as long as they play the right way. They did not play the right way yesterday.

By "right way" do you mean that the tactics were poor or that they didn't try? Real question.

I saw a team that worked hard but had multiple mental lapses and was tactically out-coached. One could argue that as many mental lapses as we had was indicative of either our unpreparedness (coaching) or their being super sharp or both. Or one could argue that the early lapses are on the team and the later lapses were contributed to by their fans abusing them.

I'd put the preparedness on PV who people are already hashtagging #PVOut which I find ridiculous. One horrible game. But second place in our second season. He has to figure out the YS pitch. It's taking him longer than I'd expect. But I'm not going to advocate firing a coach who has us in second place and seems to command the respect of the team.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Here's the thing though. Those are not the only two options as far as responses go. It's been said a few times already, you don't need to be cheering and grinning and clapping when we are losing and playing like shit. This ain't Stepford Supporters. But you also don't have to be shouting abuse at the players. Those are not the only two possible reactions, and I think it's disingenuous to imply that if you're upset then the team deserves vitriolic responses during gameplay, and if you don't give them that then you are a wind up monkey toy - there is a middle ground between those two extremes, as has already been mentioned.

I do respect the opinion that shouting at players who are pissing you off is a valid response. I mean my seats were near the corner last season and I did quite a bit of unwarranted shouting at opposing team members when they took corner kicks.

Lastly, one thing to remember is that there was a seemingly excessive/outsized response to that match - but it was an extreme fucking match to say the least. It was a spectacular shitshow of epic proportions, so one should expect a proportionate response. If it becomes a habit to throw balls back at players or to boo Lampard every time he takes the pitch, or for the bleachers to clear out whenever we're losing, then I'd say we have a problem with our supporter culture/behavior

All true.

I generally only berate Saunders. I guess I'm willing to risk an IIED suit in the hopes that it gets him dropped from the lineup.

If it becomes a habit to throw balls back at players or to boo Lampard every time he takes the pitch, or for the bleachers to clear out whenever we're losing, then I'd say we have a problem with our supporter culture/behavior
^That doesn't strike me as something we are in danger of facing, assuming we don't get a "SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR FRANK LAMPARD!!!!" announcement again when we're down a field goal and a safety. AHABS, that was one of the most tone deaf announcements I've ever witnessed. Apparently, good judgment isn't part of the job description for PA announcer. I am sure somewhere, Tom & Claudio tried to pull their Brioni over their respective heads.

 

[FootyLovin]

AHABS, that was one of the most tone deaf announcements I've ever witnessed.

1. I didn't respond to this before, but I do agree about the "Super" moniker being tone deaf.
2. More important, I'm just so happy to see AHABS finally caught with someone! #StartOfATrend

 

[Goodfella]

Fine with booing an effortless performance, it was deserved. Stay with the club through good and bad but let me know how you feel.

Fine with the "we're shit" chant, I'm a big fan of self-deprecating humor, although I think there are more clever ways to do it.

Throwing the balls back? indifferent. Someone mentioned handing it to a nearby kid if you didn't personally want it. I like that.

Fighting and abusing RB supporters? Juvenile nonsense. I have much more fun when I actually "meet" fans of other teams by introducing myself, maybe take a pic together, share a beer. I bought a round for first 3 RB fans that I had never met before when they walked into Yankee Tavern after the match and simply said, "Congrats"

Seeing a half empty supporters section by the 80th minute bothered me a bit. They are supposed to be more dedicated than the average "fan" and stay to the end. I did. My opinion only, not judging, we all have reasons for what we do.

Having witnessed the #RedBullWedding to the very end will make seeing the MLS Cup lifted in Etihad Stadium that much sweeter.

"Where were you when we were shit?"

 

[Ulrich]

All true.

I generally only berate Saunders. I guess I'm willing to risk an IIED suit in the hopes that it gets him dropped from the lineup.

If it becomes a habit to throw balls back at players or to boo Lampard every time he takes the pitch, or for the bleachers to clear out whenever we're losing, then I'd say we have a problem with our supporter culture/behavior
^That doesn't strike me as something we are in danger of facing, assuming we don't get a "SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR FRANK LAMPARD!!!!" announcement again when we're down a field goal and a safety. AHABS, that was one of the most tone deaf announcements I've ever witnessed. Apparently, good judgment isn't part of the job description for PA announcer. I am sure somewhere, Tom & Claudio tried to pull their Brioni over their respective heads.

Bringing Super Frank in when down 5-0 was akin to a Friday news dump. I get why they did it and I despise management for it - it was one more instance of their bungling nature with the man. Just once, I'd like management to admit that they handled a Frank situation, any of them, incorrectly. Just once.

 

[Seth]

Bringing Super Frank in when down 5-0 was akin to a Friday news dump. I get why they did it and I despise management for it - it was one more instance of their bungling nature with the man. Just once, I'd like management to admit that they handled a Frank situation, any of them, incorrectly. Just once.

I thought bringing in Lampard and Harrison at that point was a good move, one which I think had everything to do with Vieira managing the team well and nothing to do with the upper management of the club. You're getting blown out, it's the usual time in the match when you'd start bringing in subs anyway, why not get Lampard and Harrison their first minutes on the field when there's no pressure on them as the game's already gone? I'd much rather have Harrison's first MLS minutes happen in that sort of situation where he can get them under his belt in a no-pressure situation than to bring him on in a 1-1 deadlock you're desperately trying to win at the last minute. Same with Lampard, nobody was happy with that match, so why not bring him on? Everyone can boo, he can test his calf out, get rid of the first-minutes butterflies, that sort of thing.

I see no downside to Vieira doing this and much upside.

 

[Ulrich]

I thought bringing in Lampard and Harrison at that point was a good move, one which I think had everything to do with Vieira managing the team well and nothing to do with the upper management of the club. You're getting blown out, it's the usual time in the match when you'd start bringing in subs anyway, why not get Lampard and Harrison their first minutes on the field when there's no pressure on them as the game's already gone? I'd much rather have Harrison's first MLS minutes happen in that sort of situation where he can get them under his belt in a no-pressure situation than to bring him on in a 1-1 deadlock you're desperately trying to win at the last minute. Same with Lampard, nobody was happy with that match, so why not bring him on? Everyone can boo, he can test his calf out, get rid of the first-minutes butterflies, that sort of thing.

I see no downside to Vieira doing this and much upside.

Harrison yes definitely. Even Lampard, but it still felt like a Friday news dump - everybody was so riled up, there was no way they could be any more angry.... oh wait.....

 

[Gene]

ugh.

As a cynical, crabby old man it should have dawned on me sooner the entire "Super Frank" bull shit was nothing more than another example of how the game has changed and the P.A. announcer wasn't going off script to save his life, no matter what the circumstances.

 

[roxfontaine]

So many gems in this thread.

I hope I don't take away from everything by adding my 2 cents with my terrible writing.

I just wish, in many ways, someone would show more awareness. It was a crushing day for anyone in blue and at some point, somebody along the chain in the organization has to have the sense and the courage to break from the script. An ending I would like to have seen would be, Villa collecting all the players and walking them over to FACE US. Yes, we were disappointed and angry. Yes, they busted their asses this week and were surely more upset and disappointed than we are. Yet, had they walked to us TOGETHER and stood and faced us TOGETHER...

I'm of the mind that we could have had a special moment TOGETHER; even in crushing defeat.

Instead, we got a lame script that everybody wasn't in for. It was mentioned that those of us in the supporters section are in a soccer bubble. I get it; clearly. So why would you come to the bubble to toss mini balls after that game? Go somewhere else with those!

We are expected to be there win or lose. I know I will be. It is not unreasonable to expect the same of our club. Win or lose, make us believe that you care for us outside of the score line.

 

[ZYanksRule]

By "right way" do you mean that the tactics were poor or that they didn't try? Real question.

I saw a team that worked hard but had multiple mental lapses and was tactically out-coached. One could argue that as many mental lapses as we had was indicative of either our unpreparedness (coaching) or their being super sharp or both. Or one could argue that the early lapses are on the team and the later lapses were contributed to by their fans abusing them.

It looked to me like they capitulated. Of course they tried, they're professional athletes. I never question the heart of professional athletes; these guys care, they wouldn't be here if they didn't. But I just think when the game got out of hand, they just sort of let it hang there. There was no extra fight to stop the bleeding, just a complete capitulation.

Four times during that game, Red Bulls scored at least two goals within six minutes of each other. That's what upset me. (42', 45+', 51', 56', 83', 89')

 

[LeeNYCFC]

I walked out at 6-0, I only booed the Red Bulls and the ref, but I take no issue with anyone booing the team.
When my customers are pissed, I sure hear about it. If I can take that for the gloriless pittance I'm paid, then this team of professionals can suck it up. Fans booing, walking out, and then (casual fans) not showing up is the kind of thing that can grab our management's attention. Hopefully certain types of cluelessness like PV not managing in-game, or Frank not believing he deserves criticism, or our management believing any of us still want Frank or future Franks, can be avoided by voting with our boos and feet.

 

[Goodfella]

An ending I would like to have seen would be, Villa collecting all the players and walking them over to FACE US. Yes, we were disappointed and angry. Yes, they busted their asses this week and were surely more upset and disappointed than we are. Yet, had they walked to us TOGETHER and stood and faced us TOGETHER...

I'm of the mind that we could have had a special moment TOGETHER; even in crushing defeat.

THIS. would have been a huge statement. Call to mind my experience attending the Red Bulls shock 3-1 loss to the USL Harrisburg Islanders in 2012 in US open Cup 4th round. Yes, I followed the Red Bulls, the only game in town, prior to NYCFC announcement in 2013. The game was played in Harrisburg and a large number of supporters went over to the locker rooms following the game intent on demanding the players hand over their kits. The team actually came out in a line and shook hands, and apologized for the loss defusing the whole incident and humanizing the effect of the loss on them. It meant a lot. The loss was visible in their faces and demeanor. While not feasible in an MLS venue, R roxfontaine suggestion would have had the same effect on the fans

 

[Paul]

THIS. would have been a huge statement. Call to mind my experience attending the Red Bulls shock 3-1 loss to the USL Harrisburg Islanders in 2012 in US open Cup 4th round. Yes, I followed the Red Bulls, the only game in town, prior to NYCFC announcement in 2013. The game was played in Harrisburg and a large number of supporters went over to the locker rooms following the game intent on demanding the players hand over their kits. The team actually came out in a line and shook hands, and apologized for the loss defusing the whole incident and humanizing the effect of the loss on them. It meant a lot. The loss was visible in their faces and demeanor. While not feasible in an MLS venue, R roxfontaine suggestion would have had the same effect on the fans

I'd like to add that last week RBNJ lost to DC (arguably their biggest rival and certainly their longest rivalry) in a flat performance and Dax immediately apologized to their fans. On the other hand all I've heard from Villa is that we have to forget about this and move on. Apologizing and/or taking some responsibility would go a long way to achieving that.

 

[mgarbowski]

I'd like to add that last week RBNJ lost to DC (arguably their biggest rival and certainly their longest rivalry) in a flat performance and Dax immediately apologized to their fans. On the other hand all I've heard from Villa is that we have to forget about this and move on. Apologizing and/or taking some responsibility would go a long way to achieving that.

NYCFC means never having to admit you're supposed to say "I'm sorry."